Intolerant Christians more vociferous than Muslims about Gays

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I don't associate with religious fanatics - that's not to say I don't associate with religious people - I do, and majority of my friends believe in something, be it Jesus, Muhammed, Moses, Krishna, reincarnation, astrology, astral projection or whatever.

I've had disagreements with religious people about their views, of course, but I sense when it's time to let go of the conversation, as they do, and we don't talk about it.

Zealous atheists will continue to push and provoke everyone there to the point that even those who don't believe in astrology, for example (that was the latest drama), will defend it.
Percentage wise, I've met far more atheists who were obnoxious and rude in regards to their lack of beliefs, that they would make other atheists around them cringe to the point of them turning agnostics in one conversation.

I'm happy to say, I haven't met many religious people who are like that. I worked with a pastor at University in China who has never ever brought religion into anything - he knows we'll disagree, so he doesn't bother, and of course, neither do I.

I once saw a video on youtube from an atheist that was basically him taking notice of the same thing and criticizing his fellow atheists for it. I thought that was pretty cool of him. At any rate, this doesn't seem to be something that is just happening to one or two people. For whatever reason, there seems to be a higher number of atheists that act more arrogant/aggressive.

Originally posted by TacDavey
I once saw a video on youtube from an atheist that was basically him taking notice of the same thing and criticizing his fellow atheists for it. I thought that was pretty cool of him. At any rate, this doesn't seem to be something that is just happening to one or two people. For whatever reason, there seems to be a higher number of atheists that act more arrogant/aggressive.

I don't think that's necessarily a fact at all. We all have different experiences, and just cause in one of our lives one side has been more prevalently aggressive or arrogant does not mean that it is so across the board.

Originally posted by TacDavey
I once saw a video on youtube from an atheist that was basically him taking notice of the same thing and criticizing his fellow atheists for it. I thought that was pretty cool of him. At any rate, this doesn't seem to be something that is just happening to one or two people. For whatever reason, there seems to be a higher number of atheists that act more arrogant/aggressive.

Originally posted by inimalist
ah, the "fake-breasts" fallacy

I don't think it's necessarily a fact either. I'm not trying to claim that atheists, absolutely, act more arrogant/aggressive. It's just something I have noticed in my own personal experiences and I am apparently not the only person who has.

As for the fake breast fallacy. If I understand the fallacy correctly, you are saying that there are likely a bunch of atheists that I don't know are atheists that are cool. Which I admitted in my post. I'm talking only of the atheists I have debated/ talked to/ seen debate vs the religious ones I have.

The problem though is that you are a Christian. So you will mainly debate or be approached opposingly by atheists. While I, as an atheist, will likely have the experience more with Christians.

Originally posted by TacDavey
I don't think it's necessarily a fact either. I'm not trying to claim that atheists, absolutely, act more arrogant/aggressive. It's just something I have noticed in my own personal experiences and I am apparently not the only person who has.

As for the fake breast fallacy. If I understand the fallacy correctly, you are saying that there are likely a bunch of atheists that I don't know are atheists that are cool. Which I admitted in my post. I'm talking only of the atheists I have debated/ talked to/ seen debate vs the religious ones I have.

well, like, thats the exact point

like bardock said, as atheists, we have had far more times where christians have seemed more aggressive

I imagine you have never had old ladies screaming at you on the street about how you will go to hell simply because you refused the pamphlets they were trying to hand out? similarly, aggressive atheists rarely try to shove their ideology down my throat

Originally posted by Bardock42
The problem though is that you are a Christian. So you will mainly debate or be approached opposingly by atheists. While I, as an atheist, will likely have the experience more with Christians.

That's a valid point. But I don't just debate atheists. I observe debates as well.

Originally posted by inimalist
well, like, thats the exact point

like bardock said, as atheists, we have had far more times where christians have seemed more aggressive

I imagine you have never had old ladies screaming at you on the street about how you will go to hell simply because you refused the pamphlets they were trying to hand out? similarly, aggressive atheists rarely try to shove their ideology down my throat

On the contrary, I have seen my fair share of irrational theistic people. I've even debated some of them myself. I'm fully aware that they are out there, but I've noticed that there seem to be a higher number of aggressive atheists not only in my debates, but in debates I've observed. Even a fellow atheist himself was criticizing them for it.

Again, I'm not making the claim that being an atheist makes you aggressive or arrogant. In my personal experience I had noticed that this tends to be the case and was surprised to find that others had had similar experiences.

But in this thread you have heard even more accounts of arrogant christians... why do you pay attention to the "similar experiences", but the dissimilar ones you simply skip over?

Perhaps some atheists come off as "arrogant" particularly American ones, because we're pissed. The majority of the population regards us negatively, we are apparently all communist bastards that sacrifice babies in secret rituals to satan, and rumor has it that we might not even be citizens. To top it off, almost no one would ever vote for us (there are some blue laws out there that make it illegal for atheists to run in the first place.) I believe Pete Stark is the only member of Congress that's openly an atheist and I'm amazed he got elected/still is.

So yeah, some of us are kind of miffed.

Originally posted by King Kandy
But in this thread you have heard even more accounts of arrogant christians... why do you pay attention to the "similar experiences", but the dissimilar ones you simply skip over?

I'm not skipping them over, I haven't seen as many as the alternative, that's all.

it is astounding how hypocritical people are who say that atheists are extreme, all the while glossing over the persecution faced by non relegious people or people of the wrong relegion{i.e. inter faith cinflict).

it seems to me like a case of selective attention of society where it is so much the norm for relegious types to insult or persecute non relegious people that it doesnt even make a blip in the attention of society while even one non relegious person critcising relegion is such a deviation from the norm that they are considered loud/annoying/roudy and basically deserving of ridicule and basic avoidance from society.{while all this time the myth of overzealous atheists asking for unreasonable changes to an otherwise BENIGN and liberalised "coffee" relegious system,, is propgated, hiding the still present extremism and melevolance in relegion)

actually the entire affair reminds me of secret white supremists who masquerade as civil rights activists while chanting the anthem of "racist attitudes of blacks against the whites" and the death of white centered racism{hence no justification for the MINORITY rights that the black community asks for}. etc.

essentially a false equivilance.

Originally posted by TacDavey
I'm not skipping them over, I haven't seen as many as the alternative, that's all.

There's an awful lot of stupidity to be found in this thread, from both sides of the court.

Originally posted by King Kandy
What if I showed you a page with over a thousand accounts of arrogant christians? I doubt it would change your mind.

Well, if there was a conscious effort to build one. But then again, I'm betting that with conscious effort the same page could be made with atheists.

Like I said, I'm not saying that being an atheist makes you arrogant. I'm saying that, for whatever reason, I personally have run into more arrogant atheists than arrogant theists. And it seems I'm not alone.

What does this mean? Nothing really.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
or perhaps the only ones you noticed were the ones who ended up arguing with you. infact, theres probably way more people that you never talked theology with that are atheists, but you never thought of them as such because most people have to be TOLD that your an atheist, otherwise they assume that your theist.

How ridiculous. I do not assume anyone is a theist, especially living in East Asia - theism isn't exactly at forefront of anything, especially in China.

Originally posted by leonheartmm
you gotta admit, beleiving in astrology is pretty nuts (even if it isnt sinister).

there is something inherently wrong with people who challenge other people's beleifs. infact thats how all progress is made. ofcourse with that, it also has to be admitted that theres many situation where it is offensive or wrong in certain ways, while simultaneously being necessary and right in other ways. think about the black panthers or counter racism or nelson mandellah etc.

Believing in Astrolgy isn't any more ''nuts'' then believing that a man talked to a burning bush and became a prophet then got a God to smite down people of Egypt, or someone who died for anyone's sins and getting into heaven or eternal suffering lies between accepting this fact or not, or some epileptic Arab man receiving a holy book from angel Gabriel in some cave in the desert.

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
There's an awful lot of stupidity to be found in this thread, from both sides of the court.

Ah, the old "I am better than both sides of the argument". Nice.

Originally posted by TacDavey
On the contrary, I have seen my fair share of irrational theistic people. I've even debated some of them myself. I'm fully aware that they are out there, but I've noticed that there seem to be a higher number of aggressive atheists not only in my debates, but in debates I've observed. Even a fellow atheist himself was criticizing them for it.

Again, I'm not making the claim that being an atheist makes you aggressive or arrogant. In my personal experience I had noticed that this tends to be the case and was surprised to find that others had had similar experiences.

but that is just rephrasing my point

I'm saying your personal experiences are shaped by the fact you are a believer in the same way mine are not being a believer

the reason it probably seems as though there are more aggressive atheists is almost certainly the same reason why it seems like christians are more aggressive to atheists. The most likely scenario is that both are equally aggressive, and we are simply expressing certain cognitive and perceptual biases that we have as individuals, rather than any characteristic of "theists" or "atheists"

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
Believing in Astrolgy isn't any more ''nuts'' then believing that a man talked to a burning bush and became a prophet then got a God to smite down people of Egypt, or someone who died for anyone's sins and getting into heaven or eternal suffering lies between accepting this fact or not, or some epileptic Arab man receiving a holy book from angel Gabriel in some cave in the desert.

BTW, not interested in challenging you on astrology... I know lots of people who believe in it and I think its none of my business. I just thought this remark was an interesting thing to say.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
How ridiculous. I do not assume anyone is a theist, especially living in East Asia - theism isn't exactly at forefront of anything, especially in China.

Believing in Astrolgy isn't any more ''nuts'' then believing that a man talked to a burning bush and became a prophet then got a God to smite down people of Egypt, or someone who died for anyone's sins and getting into heaven or eternal suffering lies between accepting this fact or not, or some epileptic Arab man receiving a holy book from angel Gabriel in some cave in the desert.

but would you call them atheists?

agreed. theyr all equally nuts. no wait, abrahamic relegions are nuts and dangerous, astrology beleivers are only nuts. {p.s. i dont mean to say that they are as a whole, crazy. its just in their beleif that astrology is true}

basically, people who say that atheists in general{or even in the majority} are aggressive/irrational/extreme are, in the simplest language,LIARS! .

NOTHING more to it.