AOTC Obi-Wan vs. TPM Qui-Gon

Started by Derelite3 pagesPoll

Master vs. Apprentice

AOTC Obi-Wan vs. TPM Qui-Gon

1. Sabers
2. Force
3. All-out

Gotta go with Qui-gon on this one. Dooku felt like Obi-wan was pretty not impressive. He seemed to hold Qui-gon in much higher reguard. Plus, it was stated many times that Qui-gon would have been on the council had he been less of a maverick.

It would be a close match, but I wanna hold Qui-Gon to a higher standard than AotC Kenobi. Give him three years of war and Soresu mastery and it'll be a different story, but not yet.

Originally posted by Darth_Glentract
Plus, it was stated many times that Qui-gon would have been on the council had he been less of a maverick.
Which doesn't really mean a whole lot. A Jedi's power, and/or skill with a lightsaber, had little to no bearing on why they were chosen to be on the council.

Qui-Gon was an excellent diplomat - that's likely why he was a good candidate.

But he was also noted as being on a level playing field with Mace at the time, using a completely aggressive style with very little defense emphasis. If it's one thing that can make a fledgling Soresu practitioner disadvantaged, it's being blitzed by someone who is both aggressive and clearly on a tier above most Jedi Masters. Darth Maul's defeat of Qui-Gon only speaks to Maul's competence, it does not take away from Qui-Gon.

Originally posted by Galan007
Which doesn't really mean a whole lot. A Jedi's power, and/or skill with a lightsaber, had little to no bearing on why they were chosen to be on the council.

I think connection to the Force (i.e. Power in the Force) definetely has something to do with it. I doubt its a coincidence that the 2 heads of the Jedi order are also the 2 most powerful jedi in the galaxy.

Or that Obi-Wan, Kit Fisto and Plo Koon (all great Jedi warriors) were on the council.

Remember the Council has to use their combined connection to the Force to try and see the future, any potential threats e.t.c.

Originally posted by Galan007
Qui-Gon was an excellent diplomat - that's likely why he was a good candidate.

There are many more quotes on his Sword skills than his diplomatic skills.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
It would be a close match, but I wanna hold Qui-Gon to a higher standard than AotC Kenobi. Give him three years of war and Soresu mastery and it'll be a different story, but not yet.

👆

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I think connection to the Force (i.e. Power in the Force) definetely has something to do with it. I doubt its a coincidence that the 2 heads of the Jedi order are also the 2 most powerful jedi in the galaxy.

Or that Obi-Wan, Kit Fisto and Plo Koon (all great Jedi warriors) were on the council.

I doubt very highly that the Jedi say "wow, you're powerful! Join our club." Yes, some of the people on the council were powerful, but that isn't why they were chosen to be on the council. cwatimeen?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
There are many more quotes on his Sword skills than his diplomatic skills.
...And?

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
I think connection to the Force (i.e. Power in the Force) definetely has something to do with it. I doubt its a coincidence that the 2 heads of the Jedi order are also the 2 most powerful jedi in the galaxy.

Or that Obi-Wan, Kit Fisto and Plo Koon (all great Jedi warriors) were on the council.

Remember the Council has to use their combined connection to the Force to try and see the future, any potential threats e.t.c.

The very existence of Coleman Trebor really casts doubts on the prerequisites for High Council membership. Here's the reason for his place from Wookiee---they cite the "Official Star Wars Fact File 106" as their source, so if anyone has it, great:

"The Council chose him because of his myriad contacts around the galaxy, and because of his abilities in dealing with other species. He was often sent to social events to act as a representative of the Council, and was a spokesbeing for the Jedi Order, often directly speaking to the media."

Power and skill be damned, this guy's connected!

^ Fair enough. They'd obviously want people who'd be useful being in the top ranks. A well connected guy obviously would be. But I would still assume the most useful Jedi (for the majority of the council) would be those with the deepest connection to the Force.

After all its the Council that has to sense threats, see the future e.t.c. So unless theres reason to assume Qui-Gon would have been particularly useful for another reason, Im guessing the main Jedi character of Episode 1 was probably pretty powerful.

Originally posted by Galan007
...And?

Point was im not sure where your getting the idea that he would be on the council for his diplomatic skills.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Point was im not sure where your getting the idea that he would be on the council for his diplomatic skills.
Personality is one of the greatest determining factors in selecting a Jedi to be on the council - power really isn't a prerequisite. If power were an important factor in choosing council members, Qui-Gon's power over the force would have taken precedence over his headstrong/stubborn demeanor (which was obviously not the case.)

I mean, why do you think the Jedi were extremely hesitant to have Anakin on the council? It certainly wasn't due to a lack of power. :/

It's clearly because he hates sand.

👆

Originally posted by Galan007
Personality is one of the greatest determining factors in selecting a Jedi to be on the council - power really isn't a prerequisite. If power were an important factor in choosing council members, Qui-Gon's power over the force would have taken precedence over his headstrong/stubborn demeanor (which was obviously not the case.)

I mean, why do you think the Jedi were extremely hesitant to have Anakin on the council? It certainly wasn't due to a lack of power. :/

Oh no theres no doubt if a Jedi lacks certain traits: wisdom, patience, unwillingness to follow the code, that they will not be allowed on the council.

Thats why Qui-Gon was not allowed. And yet Obi-Wan says if he just followed the code He Would be on the Council. Why? Iv always thought the reasonable assumption is that he's a capable Jedi, with a good connection to the Force.

Same with Anakin. Clearly he was lacking certain traits to be on the council. But you really think if he matured he wouldn't be?? Someone that Powerful certainly would be.

You have to remember also Anakin wasn't a Master yet. Only Masters are allowed on the council. And power alone doesn't make one a Master.

My money is on Obi-Wan.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Oh no theres no doubt if a Jedi lacks certain traits: wisdom, patience, unwillingness to follow the code, that they will not be allowed on the council.

Thats why Qui-Gon was not allowed. And yet Obi-Wan says if he just followed the code He Would be on the Council. Why? Iv always thought the reasonable assumption is that he's a capable Jedi, with a good connection to the Force.

Same with Anakin. Clearly he was lacking certain traits to be on the council. But you really think if he matured he wouldn't be?? Someone that Powerful certainly would be.

You have to remember also Anakin wasn't a Master yet. Only Masters are allowed on the council. And power alone doesn't make one a Master.

You essentially just rephrased exactly what I said. So I agree. 👆

G007
So I agree. 👆
Spoiler:
Palpatine possesses him.

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Only Masters are allowed on the council.
Ki-Adi-Mundi was only a Knight when he was appointed to the Council.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Ki-Adi-Mundi was only a Knight when he was appointed to the Council.
So was Anakin. 😖mart:

Originally posted by Galan007
So was Anakin. 😖mart:
Admittedly against their will and better judgement.