Originally posted by Stealth Moose
But he was also noted as being on a level playing field with Mace at the time, using a completely aggressive style with very little defense emphasis. If it's one thing that can make a fledgling Soresu practitioner disadvantaged, it's being blitzed by someone who is both aggressive and clearly on a tier above most Jedi Masters. Darth Maul's defeat of Qui-Gon only speaks to Maul's competence, it does not take away from Qui-Gon.
Nicely put.
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Probably WAY before Mace Windu was the lightsaber beast that he became. And sparring is a far cry from actual combat. Moreover, Mace wouldn't have utilized Vaapad during a mere sparring session because of it's pull to the darkside.
What Lucien said was correct - Mace wouldn't used Vapaad as of TPM, because it wasn't conceived yet.
Though, had he possesed it, he would have employed it in a sparring match, if only to aid in futhering it's development.
If he were afraid enough of Vapaad's effects that he wouldn't risk employing it in a sparring match, it would have never been developed.
Though that's somewhat obvious.
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Probably WAY before Mace Windu was the lightsaber beast that he became. And sparring is a far cry from actual combat. Moreover, Mace wouldn't have utilized Vaapad during a mere sparring session because of it's pull to the darkside.
Vaapad was developed during the gap between TPM and AOTC, so yes Qui-Gon was on par with a Vaapadless Mace, in his prime. He was old in TPM though.
Kenobi is more capable but it seems that post PM he didn't focus much on fencing as he trained Anakin Jedi ways in general. Because after confrontation with Dooku just three years later performance of Kenobi and Anakin was boosted a lot.
So Qui-Gon is still tough foe for him at that point.
As for quote that Qui-Gon was on par with Windu. Bullshit. Never happened. Completely made up. Checked it personally.
Originally posted by mnat801You made the insinuation that because Maul died by Obi-Wan's hand, and Qui-Gon died by Maul's hand, that Obi-Wan>Qui-Gon. So no, DP's statement was relevant.
this is about AOTC obi wan not TPM obi wan. im stating obi wans feats. you dont tell me what to do, its my opinion and you should respect that
What you were engaging is referred to as A>B>C logic. It's too simplistic in a situation wth variables. The variables here being that Darth Maul defeated both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in a lightsaber duel. But he died as the result of standing around and being a dumbass.
Originally posted by Lord LucienPretty much. It may be simplistic, but its FACT. no, your wrong, maul never DEFEATED kenobi at all. him being force pushed and ALMOST defeated doesnt mean he was defeated. the duel did not finish there. You say he died because he stood around being a dumbass. well, thats exactly why maul was defeated.
You made the insinuation that because Maul died by Obi-Wan's hand, and Qui-Gon died by Maul's hand, that Obi-Wan>Qui-Gon. So no, DP's statement was relevant.What you were engaging is referred to as A>B>C logic. It's too simplistic in a situation wth variables. The variables here being that Darth Maul defeated both Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan in a lightsaber duel. But he died as the result of standing around and being a dumbass.
Again, go read the novelization. Obi-Wan's little bout of anger didn't help all too much. Maul actually out-dueled him, disarmed him, and dropped him down a hole. Then he let himself die. Obi-Wan was defeated--read: out-dueled/fought/performed. And Maul was killed. The exact same thing happened in RotS between Obi-Wan and Anakin. Maul and Anakin were superior fighters and duelists to Obi-Wan, but they did some plot-induced stupidity that made them die/burn. We don't relive PIS in this forum, only skills matter.
Obi-Wan has less skill than Maul, Qui-Gon, and Anakin.