The All Versus Forum

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Right, apologies.

Let me ask you a question, do games have a place in an all versus forum? I mean would feats be difficult to prove?

Why wouldn't they? I mean, the VGVs has been going for nearly as long as the CBVs, and with the fewest problems of all of the Vs. forums. The assumption is that if it's not specified in the first post, that they have access to all of their powers in the canon games. So, like with Dante, he'd be able to do anything that he's shown to do in the DMC games, but not MvC.

It's really not difficult at all. People coming from the other Vs forum might have to get used to it, but the minions have been doing it fine for years.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
So I guess the thread starter specifies, if using Dante Sparda, for example, if he is as he was at the beginning of DMC1? Or at the end? Or as he was in 2, or all? That's what's confusing me.

It's no different than how we do it in the MVF.

You pick the characters, assign the setting/scenario, and then you give them any handicap(s) that you wish, without gimping, of course.

In my opinion, you should only choose abilities from the actual games that they are represented in. However, being that I'm not a VGVS mod, I'm very open to suggestions.

Example:

"Dante from DMC1 has all of his weapons, enhancements, and power ups as he did at the final battle of the game.

vs.

Kratos from GOW II, but at the beginning of the game just as he is about to battle the Colossus of Rhoades.

Fight takes place in Nibelheim from FFVII."

It can totally work. All you need is viable knowledge of the medium(s) that you choose to make a thread with.

Just to check what is being proposed here.

Is it only for cross-medium match-ups or would comic vs comic and games vs games match-ups be allowed in there as well?

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Just to check what is being proposed here.

Is it only for cross-medium match-ups or would comic vs comic and games vs games match-ups be allowed in there as well?

Good question.

Do you think that cross medium matches should ONLY be allowed?

In my opinion, I think that they should.

Well when this was first discussed long ago I remember this being a point of contention.

In theory, it seems odd if you don;t allow same-same match-ups along the others... but if you do, then all the other areas start to look a little redundant.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Just to check what is being proposed here.

Is it only for cross-medium match-ups or would comic vs comic and games vs games match-ups be allowed in there as well?

My assumption is that it'd be for cross-medium matches only, and that if it belongs somewhere else it goes there, not here.

I don't really care, either way - I only care about this at all because it'll cut down the amount of rule-breaking in my forum (which isn't much, to be fair, but still, none is best).

Originally posted by Impediment
It's no different than how we do it in the MVF.

You pick the characters, assign the setting/scenario, and then you give them any handicap(s) that you wish, without gimping, of course.

In my opinion, you should only choose abilities from the actual games that they are represented in. However, being that I'm not a VGVS mod, I'm very open to suggestions.

Example:

"Dante from DMC1 has all of his weapons, enhancements, and power ups as he did at the final battle of the game.

vs.

Kratos from GOW II, but at the beginning of the game just as he is about to battle the Colossus of Rhoades.

Fight takes place in Nibelheim from FFVII."

It can totally work. All you need is viable knowledge of the medium(s) that you choose to make a thread with.

That's pretty much exactly how we do it. And I'm not sure how you do it, but we encourage people to use wiki links, youtube videos, and etc. so everyone will know what they're talking about when they bring up specific feats and versions so there's less confusion.

Clearly, if matches fulfilled the criteria for MVF or VGV they'd belong there.

Unless the idea is for All Vs. to subsume the current VS. forums. But I think that'd only make things more complicated.

All Vs. should be for the cross-medium matches that don't fit in the existing forums, in my opinion.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well when this was first discussed long ago I remember this being a point of contention.

In theory, it seems odd if you don;t allow same-same match-ups along the others... but if you do, then all the other areas start to look a little redundant.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
Clearly, if matches fulfilled the criteria for MVF or VGV they'd belong there.

Unless the idea is for All Vs. to subsume the current VS. forums. But I think that'd only make things more complicated.

All Vs. should be for the cross-medium matches that don't fit in the existing forums, in my opinion.

Originally posted by Peach
My assumption is that it'd be for cross-medium matches only, and that if it belongs somewhere else it goes there, not here.

You're right.

If somebody wants to make a movie vs movie/comic vs comic/game vs game/etc, then the thread should go in the appropriate forum.

The All Versus should be strictly for cross medium matches only. I mean, that's the whole point, isn't it?

I really never gave it much thought until Ush just now brought it up.

Not that I know the first thing about vs forums, of course.

But it may seem a little odd that if I wanted to make a set of, say, Superman (the comics) vs. threads that if I wanted one of him vs. Darth Vader I could do it here, or one of him vs. Ganon I could do it here... but if I wanted him vs. the Hulk I'd have to do it somewhere else.

But as I say, if I can do him vs. the Hulk here, the purpose of the comics only vs looks questionable.

It's certainly an area to consider.

I see it as being similar to the OTF. Stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else can go there, but if there is another forum it fits better, it goes in the other forum - it's just a catch-all for the stuff that already doesn't have a specific home.

Plus there will be people who want to still debate their regular CBVs/VGVs/MVF matches without wading through all of the chaos in an AVF looking for the threads they want.

Originally posted by Peach
I see it as being similar to the OTF. Stuff that doesn't fit anywhere else can go there, but if there is another forum it fits better, it goes in the other forum - it's just a catch-all for the stuff that already doesn't have a specific home.

Plus there will be people who want to still debate their regular CBVs/VGVs/MVF matches without wading through all of the chaos in an AVF looking for the threads they want.

Agreed. If it fits in the MVF/CBVS/VGVS, etc, then it should by all means go there. Cross medium only should go in the AVF else utter chaos would ensue.

Not that this is in any way me speaking against the idea, as I am neutral on almost all vs. developments, but if it is kept as cross-medium only you would need to consider the following

1. Some people won't be happy. This is always true, of course, but this would specifically upset some

2. There will be arguments over the definition of 'anything'

3. There will be those who want cross-medium fights that won't necessarily be happy with being sent out of its 'home' area to some chaotic other place, and by opposition there will be those who want to keep a string of threads about the same character in one area instead of scattered.

Obviously if you are willing to put the mod effort in then all is well. It's just an inherently awkward process.

As for people not wanting to wade through rubbish- this is true, but that's actually a reason why specific vs. areas still have a purpose even if same-same threads are allowed in anything vs.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Not that this is in any way me speaking against the idea, as I am neutral on almost all vs. developments, but if it is kept as cross-medium only you would need to consider the following

1. Some people won't be happy. This is always true, of course, but this would specifically upset some

2. There will be arguments over the definition of 'anything'

3. There will be those who want cross-medium fights that won't necessarily be happy with being sent out of its 'home' area to some chaotic other place, and by opposition there will be those who want to keep a string of threads about the same character in one area instead of scattered.

Obviously if you are willing to put the mod effort in then all is well. It's just an inherently awkward process.

Originally, the proposed name was "Anything Versus", but the name was tweaked to mean, basically, an ALL Versus forum to intertwine all of the existing mediums (movie, comic, game, book, tv, and anime). It won't literally be ANYTHING, but, rather, all of the existing mediums rolled into one.

Well I can only recommend that this is made very clear!

Of course not everyone's going to be happy. That's going to be the case with everything we do, ever. If you try and please everyone, you're never, ever going to accomplish anything; best to find a middle ground that most people are happy with.

What exactly would be allowed is something that would be spelled out in the rules. Yes, there will be some problems with it, especially at first when people adjust to it (and when you get newbies who start posting without reading the rules), but over all, I don't see that as really being a big deal.

And in response to the third point...I point back up to my first paragraph. I don't think anyone's expecting for all of the Vs. forums to be combined into one big pool of insanity, so they know that if they want to argue Batman vs. Link, they're going to have to venture out of their main stomping grounds.

A good primer on how to use the KMC search engine would help a lot, too. I have a basic one in the rules for my forum, and it does help.

Most of the issues can be easily dealt with via a good set of rules, and links to the appropriate subforums.

Personally though, allowing same-same threads in All Vs. while keeping the specific forums would only lead to confusion as people forget whether a certain rebuttal was made in the Superman vs. Hulk thread in the All Vs. forum, or the identically-named thread in CV. It's redundant and in all likelihood would be complained about.

I am perfectly aware that you cannot please everyone, as I even specified. I was raising points to consider about whether this really is the middle ground you speak of. Sometimes by trying something you can cause more aggravation, not less.

On the points Ush raised, I think it should be only for character match ups that do not fit in the already established forums. That should be made very clear in the rules, with links to the appropriate forums. This I think is better for two reasons a) in order to not steal the thunder, or actually even make those other forums pointless and b) cause it would be a gigantic forum, the by far biggest and fastest on the board if it got all the traffic from the other vs. forums, which doesn't seem desirable.

Another question is whether it should only be fictional or fictionalized characters or if the "Muhammed Ali vs Bruce Lee" and similar debates could find a place there.

Lastly where would this forum be put? To me there seem to be two logical places and one perhaps convenient place. That is either in the Community section (as an equal to GDF and OTF or as a subsection of GDF), as a forum under "Misc" or as a subforum of the move forum (that being convenient with Impediment as mod, but ever so slightly illogical).

Non-fictional characters would be interesting to debate imo.