Odin VS Galactus

Originally posted by Space M ummy
eh, it's been clearly determined that earth's pantheons were scared shitless of celestials, and totally unable to stop them.

we're talking much earlier on than this. that celestial scene was, imo, the scene that set the cosmics apart from the skyfathers. prior to that, there was still a question as regards relative power levels. that scene was, frankly, embarrassing.

Full potential galactus is a peer to eternity and death, and most certainly outranks the celestials.[/b]

pure speculation. 'full potential galactus' is a myth. no one has seen it, so we don't know what that really means. as far as a peer to death and eternity--that speaks to his station, not his power.

Add to that what we've seen what the ultimate nullifier can do (obliterate the entire marvel multiverse in the blink of an eye) and it's not hard to come to the conclusion that Galactus at his peak should be a good deal stronger than any of earth's pantheons.

yeah, the un is a confusing issue, imo. it is most certainly NOT in character for him to use it, regardless and i don't think it should be factored in to any forum fight.

Originally posted by Wodenson

👆

Thor says:

Odin responds:

It's clear that Lee and Kirby saw them as peers, with a possible edge to Odin.

Originally posted by leonidas
we're talking much earlier on than this. that celestial scene was, imo, the scene that set the cosmics apart from the skyfathers. prior to that, there was still a question as regards relative power levels. that scene was, frankly, embarrassing.

not really, again you can go back to Galactus' first appearance where the watcher states the only thing capable of stopping galactus was the ultimate nullifier. If Odin, Zeus, etc were stronger, or even on par- why not appeal to them instead? Why get galactus to "promise" not to eat the planet instead of just beating him senseless?

The only explanation is that galactus was intended to be superior to the earthbound gods, and stoppable only via a plot device.

pure speculation. 'full potential galactus' is a myth. no one has seen it, so we don't know what that really means. as far as a peer to death and eternity--that speaks to his station, not his power.

one would think that even having a "station" equivalent to the concepts of death and eternity would speak to a significant level of power. but it's not worth debating here.

yeah, the un is a confusing issue, imo. it is most certainly NOT in character for him to use it, regardless and i don't think it should be factored in to any forum fight. [/B]

It doesn't have to be in character for him to use it, since the UN has been stated by marvel to be another aspect of his powers, you must include it when making the determination of how powerful galactus actually IS.

it's not in character for the flash to IMP an opponent a million times right off the bat, but no one is going to argue that flash couldn't, or that it "shouldn't count" as part of his powerset.

What the UN is capable of is beyond anything Odin has been able to do so far on panel, and since its been defined as "just another part of galactus" that means that galactus' overall power exceeds odin's. It's not in CHARACTER for Galactus to use it (he only has once or twice that I'm aware of), but if it ever WERE used on him, Odin would not be able to resist it, and would be obliterated.

Therefore, Galactus is more powerful than Odin.

Originally posted by Wodenson

Just a shame that Odin, in connection with the scan, got completely thrashed on panel by Doom who held the power of Galactus.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Just a shame that Odin, in connection with the scan, got completely thrashed on panel by Doom who held the power of Galactus.

It's such a shame that Doom had the power of Galactus plus half a dozen OTHER artifacts boosting him, one of which was the Cosmic Cube.

And it's a shame that Galactus went down before the power of the Cosmic Cube much easier than Odin did against Doom with Galactus Power + Cosmic Cube.

Originally posted by Wodenson
It's such a shame that Doom had the power of Galactus plus half a dozen OTHER artifacts boosting him, one of which was the Cosmic Cube.

And it's a shame that Galactus went down before the power of the Cosmic Cube much easier than Odin did against Doom with Galactus Power + Cosmic Cube.

And it's shame that Doom commented on that the Cosmic Cube in itself was but a fraction of the power he would obtain when he stole the power of Galactus. It's further a shame that it wasn't anywhere near the power of half a dozen artifacts. It was The orb from the Watcher, the Sacred Helix of Randac, the cosmic cube and the Cosmic Control Rod, of these the only one that increased his power was the Cosmic cube, which according to Doom was nothing in comparison with Galactus own power.

It's further a shame that the cube in itself wasn't used during the steal of the power from Galactus, but instead the equipment that was also used to drain the Surfer was used, The cosmic energy harness something...

Doom was amped by much more than Galactus power so that feat doesn't count for Galactus.

Originally posted by Utrigita
[B]And it's shame that Doom commented on that the Cosmic Cube in itself was but a fraction of the power he would obtain when he stole the power of Galactus.

Yeah, a fraction of the total power he would have when he stole Galactus' power. Which is absolutely correct.

It's further a shame that the cube in itself wasn't used during the steal of the power from Galactus, but instead the equipment that was also used to drain the Surfer was used.

O rly?

Originally posted by Wodenson
Yeah, a fraction of the total power he would have when he stole Galactus' power. Which is absolutely correct.

O rly?

Which means that in Doom's eyes (the guy with all the knowledge in the universe) the power of Galactus was much greater then the power the cosmic cube had.

Yes rly.

Earlier Doom mentioned how he used the Cosmic Cube, harnessed and controlled by the Cosmic Rod from Annihilus to transport him across the universe to Galactus destination, that was it. Further Reed explains that it's through the Orb from the Watcher that Doom gains the knowledge on how to steal Galactus power, if the cosmic cube itself was all that was need, it wouldn't have been required to bring the Harness, and if the cosmic cube powers was far greater then Galactus, why bother trying to steal them in the first place? And if Odin's power was equal to Galactus why travel across the universe to get Galactus' power?

Originally posted by Utrigita
[B]Which means that in Doom's eyes (the guy with all the knowledge in the universe) the power of Galactus was much greater then the power the cosmic cube had.

That's not what it means. It means exactly what Doom said. That the power Doom had accumulated was less than what it would be with Galactus power added on top of it.

...if the cosmic cube itself was all that was need, it wouldn't have been required to bring the Harness, and if the cosmic cube powers was far greater then Galactus, why bother trying to steal them in the first place?

I never said that the Cosmic Cube itself was all that was needed, but the fact that Reed was able to steal Galactus' power from Doom at the end of the story suggests that it was. Maybe Doom needed the additional security to ensure his plan was successful.

I also never said that the Cosmic Cube was greater than Galactus (even though the story alludes to it being greater), but Doom was trying to achieve the highest power level possible.

And if Odin's power was equal to Galactus why travel across the universe to get Galactus' power?

Maybe because Galactus was an easier mark, all by his lonesome, without an all-seeing god watching his back.

Originally posted by Wodenson
That's not what it means. It means exactly what Doom said. That the power Doom had accumulated was less than what it would be with Galactus power added on top of it.

I never said that the Cosmic Cube itself was all that was needed, but the fact that Reed was able to steal Galactus' power from Doom at the end of the story suggests that it was. Maybe Doom needed the additional security to ensure his plan was successful.

I also never said that the Cosmic Cube was greater than Galactus (even though the story alludes to it being greater), but Doom was trying to achieve the highest power level possible.

Maybe because Galactus was an easier mark, all by his lonesome, without an all-seeing god watching his back.

Lets see, Doom says that the power of the Cosmic Cube is matchless, and then he states that the power that will come at his disposal when he steals Galactus power, will make the power he has at that point of time before the steal, a fraction of his overall power, so the power of Galactus is in Doom's eyes significantly above what power the cosmic cube has.

Or maybe the Cube functioned as a conviniently plot device. If the power of the Cosmic Cube was above the power of Galactus, going after Galactus power in the first place would seem illogical, especially for a person with the amount of knowledge that Doom had at his disposal at that point of time.

And that he obtained by gaining the power of Galactus, the power of Galactus which made the power of the cosmic cube seem like like a fraction in comparison, which points towards that a very large majority of the power used to defeat Odin came from the power of Galactus, furthermore the fact that Doom doesn't register that he drops the Cosmic Cube, makes it arguable if he was indeed even using it active after having obtained Galactus power.

Or maybe because the power that Galactus had was much greater then the power Odin had?

Originally posted by Utrigita
Lets see, Doom says that the power of the Cosmic Cube is matchless, and then he states that the power that will come at his disposal when he steals Galactus power, will make the power he has at that point of time before the steal, a fraction of his overall power, so the power of Galactus is in Doom's eyes significantly above what power the cosmic cube has.

Your attempt to mangle sentence structure not withstanding, Doom essentially said that his power would grow after he absorbed the energy from Galactus.

Or maybe the Cube functioned as a conviniently plot device.

A plot device which stole/defeated the power of Galactus twice in the same story.

And that he obtained by gaining the power of Galactus, the power of Galactus which made the power of the cosmic cube seem like like a fraction in comparison, which points towards that a very large majority of the power used to defeat Odin came from the power of Galactus

Reed Richards quite clearly stated that they were dealing with far more than the power of the Galactus.

Or maybe because the power that Galactus had was much greater then the power Odin had?

Or maybe Galactus' power is that much easier to steal, since it was done twice in one storyline, and I don't know how many times since.

Originally posted by Space M ummy
not really, again you can go back to Galactus' first appearance where the watcher states the only thing capable of stopping galactus was the ultimate nullifier. If Odin, Zeus, etc were stronger, or even on par- why not appeal to them instead? Why get galactus to "promise" not to eat the planet instead of just beating him senseless?

😂

why doesn't batman call superman when the joker is on a rampage? c'mon. it was an ff book. you really think they'll cross to thor and ask for help? but what happened when thor DID meet galactus.....? 😖hifty:

The only explanation is that galactus was intended to be superior to the earthbound gods, and stoppable only via a plot device.

or that the whole thing took place in the ff and x-overs were hardly common place back then.....

one would think that even having a "station" equivalent to the concepts of death and eternity would speak to a significant level of power. but it's not worth debating here.

significant level? sure. never said he didn't. just wanted to be sure that because he's considered a 'cosmic' that it does NOT necessarily follow that his power=death/eternity. saturnyne is the OMNIVERSAL MAJESTRIX. an UBER station--and she has basically NO power. station=/=power in all cases.

It doesn't have to be in character for him to use it, since the UN has been stated by marvel to be another aspect of his powers, you must include it when making the determination of how powerful galactus actually IS.

in the forum it absolutely does count. unless someone is talking cis-free adn arguing just powersets.

it's not in character for the flash to IMP an opponent a million times right off the bat, but no one is going to argue that flash couldn't, or that it "shouldn't count" as part of his powerset.

that issue HAS come up. fact is that flash has used similarly powerful hits many times however. g has only ever emplyed the un ONE time. prior to that he was afraid of it and there was no indication it was part of him at all. does the abraxas arc count as a retcon? maybe. i think we need to see at least one more demonstration to support it though. i'm still on the fence as regards to galactus and the un. i accept the arc, and what it means, but at the same time i certainly am not comfortable (after only a single showing that was refuted in ALL prior showings) to say he can simply use the un whenever he wants.....

What the UN is capable of is beyond anything Odin has been able to do so far on panel, and since its been defined as "just another part of galactus" that means that galactus' overall power exceeds odin's. It's not in CHARACTER for Galactus to use it (he only has once or twice that I'm aware of), but if it ever WERE used on him, Odin would not be able to resist it, and would be obliterated.

in an alternate universe, the un destroyed eternity, effortlessly. i'd say that is beyond odin.... that was never the issue. galactus' more common place power levels are.

Therefore, Galactus is more powerful than Odin.

maybe. we'll see coming up just how far beyond him he is. perhaps it will be born out that he is well beyond odin. but maybe not. and i'll guarantee the un will not be playing any role in things....

Originally posted by Utrigita
Lets see, Doom says that the power of the Cosmic Cube is matchless, and then he states that the power that will come at his disposal when he steals Galactus power, will make the power he has at that point of time before the steal, a fraction of his overall power, so the power of Galactus is in Doom's eyes significantly above what power the cosmic cube has.

Or maybe the Cube functioned as a conviniently plot device. If the power of the Cosmic Cube was above the power of Galactus, going after Galactus power in the first place would seem illogical, especially for a person with the amount of knowledge that Doom had at his disposal at that point of time.

And that he obtained by gaining the power of Galactus, the power of Galactus which made the power of the cosmic cube seem like like a fraction in comparison, which points towards that a very large majority of the power used to defeat Odin came from the power of Galactus, furthermore the fact that Doom doesn't register that he drops the Cosmic Cube, makes it arguable if he was indeed even using it active after having obtained Galactus power.

Or maybe because the power that Galactus had was much greater then the power Odin had?

c'mon u, that scene was so muddled with so many different powers, you know it can't be used to prove...... anything really. 😬

Originally posted by leonidas
c'mon u, that scene was so muddled with so many different powers, you know it can't be used to prove...... anything really. 😬

Yes I know, as we have discussed it before 😉 I just found the scan that Wodenson presented as taken a bit out of context given what happened after the statement, and that was merely what I commented upon. But true it's muddled and to a large degree selfcontradicting.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Yes I know, as we have discussed it before 😉 I just found the scan that Wodenson presented as taken a bit out of context given what happened after the statement, and that was merely what I commented upon. But try it's muddled and to a large degree selfcontradicting.

👆 😉

Originally posted by Wodenson
Your attempt to mangle sentence structure not withstanding, Doom essentially said that his power would grow after he absorbed the energy from Galactus.

A plot device which stole/defeated the power of Galactus twice in the same story.

Reed Richards quite clearly stated that they were dealing with far more than the power of the Galactus.

Or maybe Galactus' power is that much easier to steal, since it was done twice in one storyline, and I don't know how many times since.

That is true, what you fail to take into consideration is that Doom draws a line between before and after he gains Galactus power. And Doom sees the power he has before Galactus power, as a fraction of the power he will gain when he steals Galactus power.

The reason I see it as a plot device is, Doom is selfconflicting concerning his actual use of the Cosmic Cube concerning the theft, at one instance he says it's merely being used as a transportation device, the next it's a factor in stealing the power, which is a direct contradiction to what Reed tells us later, in that brief mentioning of the different Artifacts the Cosmic Cube isn't, iirc, mentioned as the Item that enables Doom to steal Galactus power, the Ultimate Machine is. Furthermore as already mentioned, if the Cosmic Cube is already more powerful then Galactus why even attempt to gain Galactus power in the first place?

Which they also was, but how big a part of that power was Galactus own Reed didn't elaborate on the slightest. He mentions the other artifacts, but also mentions that it's indeed with Galactus power that Doom obtains Ultimate power, and also hints at that Doom's goal all along was to get Galactus power. And again if you look at Doom's sentence before he rushes towards Galactus, Doom sees the power that he has before the theft as a fraction of the power he will have when he steals the power from Galactus.

It shouldn't matter which of the two is the hardest to steal. If Doom as you suggest only worked to accumulate his own personal power, he might as well, if Odin was stronger as Galactus have robbed that instead.

But then again I think it's non canon anyways.

Originally posted by Utrigita
Lets see, Doom says that the power of the Cosmic Cube is matchless, and then he states that the power that will come at his disposal when he steals Galactus power, will make the power he has at that point of time before the steal, a fraction of his overall power, so the power of Galactus is in Doom's eyes significantly above what power the cosmic cube has.

Originally posted by King Kandy
lol, do you know what a "fraction" is? 1/2 is a fraction. 99/100 is a fraction. It doesn't speak at all to the relative power of the two.

I know what a fraction is pure mathematical, but in this context I'll stick to what Oxford Dictionary says concerning the literal meaning if you don't mind 🙂

a small or tiny part , amount, or proportion of something

Or Free online dictionary

A disconnected piece; a fragment.
A small part; a bit