Originally posted by Uriel005
Still the fastest there is and there exists nothing that has been proven faster than him other than reverse flash which still gets his ass beaten. Speed force grows with every step barry takes and as such so does his power as it is the source of Flash's power. He can spam IMP with the way it is described and with Flash rebirth it seems to me like his entering speedforce is no longer a problem so he can use it to dodge attacks.... so hmmm.... lets think here. He is FASTEST there is. He can deliver ridiculously high end brick shattering punches, steal speed, dodge attacks via running around it in time/dimension that to date the only one not a speedster and has accessed it iirc is Gorflack.So tell me... what exactly stops a CISless flash using his abilities to the fullest of his potential and prove it.
The speedforce is the source of Flash's power but that doesnt mean he breaks the universal limit on velocity. Thats just your fanboy dream. Its nice to see that since the comic you urself referenced disproves your own foolish stance, you now resort to reiterating "he is the fastest there is" over and over again. lol its the equivalent of a Hulk fanboy saying Hulk is the strongest one there is and expecting it to hold weight. Speedforce being the source of Flash's p power only means that he has apotentially infinite power source to tap into. In the same way Hulk has potentially infinite strength. That doesnt mean you to bring your fanboy imaginations into forum battles when they are completely unsupported by anything on panel. Barry or any other Flash being "the fastest there is" is extremely debatable because despite their powersource, there have been instances on panel where they have encountered faster characters (Hunter Zolomon, Eobard Thawne etc). You cant just extrapolate from their power source and ignore what occurs in comics.
As per Flash rebirth, him entering the speedforce would be a very unwise idea since he would likely have trouble getting back out and it would constitute a self BFR. I havent commented on anything in regards to him IMPing or speedstealing so stop with the strawmanning.
Regardless, the core problem with all your foolishness in this thread beyond the fact that you are simply making alot of stuff up, is that this thread is NOT a CISless flash (much less your non-existent version of him) and so almost everything you are talking about is invalid...smh
Originally posted by Naija boyexcept for the fact that when he takes the kids gloves off he is consistently faster than just about anyone out there. Hulk's track record is nowhere close. Hulk going to the full extent of his abilities is far more common than flash using some of his exotic abilities and often times does not necessarily mean the hulk wins. When Flash does something asshat broken it's generally a win. so.... you're kinda comparing water to oil imo.
The speedforce is the source of Flash's power but that doesnt mean he breaks the universal limit on velocity. Thats just your fanboy dream. Its nice to see that since the comic you urself referenced disproves your own foolish stance, you now resort to reiterating "he is the fastest there is" over and over again. lol its the equivalent of a Hulk fanboy saying Hulk is the strongest one there is and expecting it to hold weight. Speedforce being the source of Flash's p power only means that he has apotentially infinite power source to tap into. In the same way Hulk has potentially infinite strength. That doesnt mean you to bring your fanboy imaginations into forum battles when they are completely unsupported by anything on panel. Barry or any other Flash being "the fastest there is" is extremely debatable because despite their powersource, there have been instances on panel where they have encountered faster characters (Hunter Zolomon, Eobard Thawne etc). You cant just extrapolate from their power source and ignore what occurs in comics.As per Flash rebirth, him entering the speedforce would be a very unwise idea since he would likely have trouble getting back out and it would constitute a self BFR. I havent commented on anything in regards to him IMPing or speedstealing so stop with the strawmanning.
Regardless, the core problem with all your foolishness in this thread beyond the fact that you are simply making alot of stuff up, is that this thread is NOT a CISless flash (much less your non-existent version of him) and so almost everything you are talking about is invalid...smh
Originally posted by Uriel005
except for the fact that when he takes the kids gloves off he is consistently faster than just about anyone out there. Hulk's track record is nowhere close. Hulk going to the full extent of his abilities is far more common than flash using some of his exotic abilities and often times does not necessarily mean the hulk wins. When Flash does something asshat broken it's generally a win. so.... you're kinda comparing water to oil imo.
When Wally takes the "kid gloves" off he has still been FAR exceeded in speed by Zoom. And im not saying that he cannot use his exotic abilities in a CISless situation, Im saying that it is fallacy to try to extrapolate things that are unsupported on panel and that is what u have been doing the whole thread. That is why the hulk example of infinte strength is relevant. Anything supported on panel i fully accept. Anything that isnt i fully reject. thats pretty much it
Originally posted by Naija boyexcept that it's confirmed that the speedforce is essentially the be all end all if you want to measure speed in DC. Black Racer isn't faster also I don't know what you were seeing in Rebirth but from what I understood of it time spent running by Barry = Faster Flash's. He's already essentially untouchable at top speed to anyone other than Zoom. Time manips isn't really an issue when he just runs through time, Space manips really aren't a big deal as he just runs through speedforce to get back. I've said it before that if you take what is said on panel about the flashes power usually as he's doing it some really broken ass sh*t goes down if you think about what it actually means to have the capabilities that he has.
When Wally takes the "kid gloves" off he has still been FAR exceeded in speed by Zoom. And im not saying that he cannot use his exotic abilities in a CISless situation, Im saying that it is fallacy to try to extrapolate things that are unsupported on panel and that is what u have been doing the whole thread. That is why the hulk example of infinte strength is relevant. Anything supported on panel i fully accept. Anything that isnt i fully reject. thats pretty much it
Using Rebirth and Crisis as my major points The Flash has shown himself to be Zoom's better as Zoom spent quite a while on prepping to build up negative speedforce to crush Barry who still manages to outpace him and kick the crap out of him for the time that they fought. Also Speedforce on it's own has been shown to be quite powerful such as when it negated the anti-life equation. Now I don't know about you but I think thats pretty damn impressive. Additionally in Rebirth Wally showed that the Speedforce is capable of at least some form of matter manipulation when he has it repair the costumes and supercharge the flashes.
Also I've said it before that I really don't agree with the Flash having the power that he does in comics when you add together the abilities that they have shown over the years. I honestly think that if a writer were to really put that all together they had better kill of the entire speedster line doing so because after that he just isn't a viable character to use.
Originally posted by Uriel005
except that it's confirmed that the speedforce is essentially the be all end all if you want to measure speed in DC. Black Racer isn't faster also I don't know what you were seeing in Rebirth but from what I understood of it time spent running by Barry = Faster Flash's. He's already essentially untouchable at top speed to anyone other than Zoom. Time manips isn't really an issue when he just runs through time, Space manips really aren't a big deal as he just runs through speedforce to get back. I've said it before that if you take what is said on panel about the flashes power usually as he's doing it some really broken ass sh*t goes down if you think about what it actually means to have the capabilities that he has..
Your understanding of rebirth or anything flash related isnt anything to write home about first of all. Secondly the speedforce being the all be end all of speed in DC doesnt mean we can begin to make things up without on panel verification. All you are doing is taking things to theoretical extremes based on the status of his power source but there are many characters with whom we could do so. i.e Surfer or anyone with powercosmic, Quasar, The runner etc
The issue isnt the speedforces lack of power, as i acknowledged it. its the fact that extrapolation and assumption cannot go in place of on panel evidence, and ur speed force barrier breaking strategy is not grounded in any form of on panel reality and thus...hogwash to put it mildly
Originally posted by Naija boy
Your understanding of rebirth or anything flash related isnt anything to write home about first of all. Secondly the speedforce being the all be end all of speed in DC doesnt mean we can begin to make things up without on panel verification. All you are doing is taking things to theoretical extremes based on the status of his power source but there are many characters with whom we could do so. i.e Surfer or anyone with powercosmic, Quasar, The runner etcThe issue isnt the speedforces lack of power, as i acknowledged it. its the fact that extrapolation and assumption cannot go in place of on panel evidence, and ur speed force barrier breaking strategy is not grounded in any form of on panel reality and thus...hogwash to put it mildly
I used to like Flash.. now not so much cause of these 2...
I thought i was the only one who couldnt take much more of comin out from this dude.. And gis partner..