Thor (without Mjolnir) VS Wolverine

Originally posted by Soljer
If the majority of people think that blacks should be in chains or Jews in gas chambers, does that not prove that it's a great idea?

If much of our current knowledge of medicine and anatomy were based off of Nazi torture and experimentation during World War II, would that not mean that said abhorrent actions were good?

I mean, that's pretty much the way to prove that something was good, right? It brought about good results. Otherwise, it's simply your opinion, which isn't a winnable argument.

So, in the end, a majority of people felt that non-whites were inferior overall. Really, that's what it comes down to; peoples' opinions. That definitely proves which ideas are valid and not.

.......saw thsi comming a mile away.

so Like I said it one groups opinion over another there no way to prove which character is better then another.

so there no way to prove in any way that logan,spiderman and so forth are good characters, but theres also no way to prove there bad.

we can however prove that they are popular characters.

unlike the events of slavary there is no moral area that proves which side was the correct one.

oh and ps: majority of people did not believe jews should be gas. That was a small minority who happen to have a lot of power.

like I said you always gotta bust my balls.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
.......saw thsi comming a mile away.

so Like I said it one groups opinion over another there no way to prove which character is better then another.

so there no way to prove in any way that logan,spiderman and so forth are good characters, but theres also no way to prove there bad.

we can however prove that they are popular characters.

unlike the events of slavary there is no moral area that proves which side was the correct one.

oh and ps: majority of people did not believe jews should be gas. That was a small minority who happen to have a lot of power.

Moral relativity, my friend.

Morals are no more absolute than your opinion of Wolverine.

Oh, and P.S. the majority of the world was, and had been, quite anti semitic - and the majority of Nazi Germany was quite happy to purge themselves of the 'Jew Menace,' even if they didn't want to know the messier details.

Originally posted by Soljer
Moral relativity, my friend.

Morals are no more absolute than your opinion of Wolverine.

Oh, and P.S. the majority of the world was, and had been, quite anti semitic - and the majority of Nazi Germany was quite happy to purge themselves of the 'Jew Menace,' even if they didn't want to know the messier details.

actaully the majority did not believe in killing jews. Some may have thought they caused problems, but they were not wanted to be killed. Even in germany many people did not wish jews killed, but could not speak out due to fear.

so no the majority of people in the world did not think it was ok to gas jews. Thats incorrect. There also no evidence to suggest this. I would know to I study the subject quite a bit. actaully I taking a class on ww2 at the moment.( not that it means anything)

unless you can provide evidence other wise which I doubt.

true morals are different from person to person. Though if you break moral codes no matter the rule of the country you can be held responsable by the league of nations as did roughly 22 high ranking germans.

nevere said my opinion on wolverine was absolute though others opinions saying that he is a bad character are no more correct then mine.

If we view debates this way it kinda makes debating pointless.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully the majority did not believe in killing jews. Some may have thought they caused problems, but they were not wanted to be killed. Even in germany many people did not wish jews killed, but could not speak out due to fear.

If you'd have read my post, you'd have seen me use the word 'purge,' not murder. They may or may not have wanted the jews dead, but they most certainly didn't want the jews in 'their backyard.'

Originally posted by Battlehammer

true morals are different from person to person. Though if you break moral codes no matter the rule of the country you can be held responsable by the league of nations as did roughly 22 high ranking germans.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

nevere said my opinion on wolverine was absolute though others opinions saying that he is a bad character are not more correct then mine.

If we view debates this way it kinda makes debating pointless.

No, you didn't. But you did say that the appeal to majority was the best way to argue, not to mention your attempt at appeal to tradition. Neither of which hold any merit in any sort of intellectual exercise.

If you'd have read my post, you'd have seen me use the word 'purge,' not murder. They may or may not have wanted the jews dead, but they most certainly didn't want the jews in 'their backyard.' ][/QUOTE]
Your first post did say that though "majority believed jews should go to the gas chambers" I was revering to that post. You alter change your arguement.

Originally posted by Soljer
So? Does that make the League of Nation's moral code absolute? Well, hell no. Everything is relative. ]

Originally posted by Soljer
[B]No, you didn't. But you did say that the appeal to majority was the best way to argue, not to mention your attempt at appeal to tradition. Neither of which hold any merit in any sort of intellectual exercise.

true, but then again there no way to prove my point or disprove my point. I mean it impossiable to prove a character is a good one or not, becuases it all a matter of opinion

wow soljer we got so far off topic it rather funny actaully lol when you think about it.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

Your first post did say that though "majority believed jews should go to the gas chambers" I was revering to that post. You alter change your arguement.

No, my first post said "if," go ahead and re-read it. Catch up.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

might as well be. If you murder some one no matter were it is you can be tried by them. So thats a pritty absolute law.

True there a few if any absolutes, but thats dam close.

And? The definition of murder is relative as well. What constitutes murder in one place is not the same as another. Not to mention the many, many lawless countries where murder is the order of the day. Further - I'm talking MORALS, not law. Jim Crow laws were also pretty damned absolute in the south. Morally upright? Nah.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

true, but then again there no way to prove my point or disprove my point. I mean it impossiable to prove a character is a good one or not, becuases it all a matter of opinion

Exactly. Who would win in a fight can be supported with evidence. Who is a good character is TOTALLY subjective. You can't tell someone "your opinion is wrong because the majority disagrees," because it just doesn't work that way.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
wow soljer we got so far off topic it rather funny actaully lol when you think about it.

You bitches were off topic to begin with, 😛.

Arguing over whether Wolverine was a good character or not.

See? This is what you get when you try to use logical fallacies, 😛.

Originally posted by Soljer
No, my first post said "if," go ahead and re-read it. Catch up.

And? The definition of murder is relative as well. What constitutes murder in one place is not the same as another. Not to mention the many, many lawless countries where murder is the order of the day. Further - I'm talking MORALS, not law. Jim Crow laws were also pretty damned absolute in the south. Morally upright? Nah.

Exactly. Who would win in a fight can be supported with evidence. Who is a good character is TOTALLY subjective. You can't tell someone "your opinion is wrong because the majority disagrees," because it just doesn't work that way.

my bad lol.

true

true

Originally posted by Soljer
You bitches were off topic to begin with, 😛.

Arguing over whether Wolverine was a good character or not.

See? This is what you get when you try to use logical fallacies, 😛.

Originally posted by Battlehammer
I was off by one number not bad seeing as how it was from memory.......

so who cares if wendigo got back up? wendigo is a beast.

The whole point of the arguement was the berserker aspect which that scanns clearly proves.

The point is that in another encounuter Wolverine couldnt put him down in his rage. Looking at the fact that Wolverine put everything into it and then some means he might not be able to do it again. Obvoulsy beserking amps your stats but im just saying its not as good as you think it is.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

No illusions are not mind control. mind control is controling some ones mind forcing them to do things.

illusions are simply tricking the mind.

I didnt say it was mind control I said it can be seen as a type of mind control because you altering a persons perception. In order to trick the mind you need to have some power over it.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

person in comics can be effected by illussions, but be very hard to actaully mind control telepathicly.

Possibly, other examples?

Originally posted by Laminator_X
I think he's a great character, for which I have great affection. That's why it sticks in my craw to see him wasted by bad writing and poor editorial decisions.

(Oh, and Thor takes a solid majority)

Furthermore didnt Mauvais as Wendigo beat the **** out of Wolverine?

Originally posted by B.A
Bad writing? How can you be a fan fo all these years then?

Mostly by not reading any X-books in a long time. 😆

[QUOTE=9798981]Originally posted by B.A
Bad writing? How can you be a fan fo all these years then? [/QUOTE
your opinion aj........

Originally posted by Alfheim
Furthermore didnt Mauvais as Wendigo beat the **** out of Wolverine?

what the hell does this have to do with the debate?

Mauvais wendigo.............was pwning all of alpha flight at the same time.

The guy would wtf pwn hulk.

Originally posted by Alfheim
The point is that in another encounuter Wolverine couldnt put him down in his rage. Looking at the fact that Wolverine put everything into it and then some means he might not be able to do it again. Obvoulsy beserking amps your stats but im just saying its not as good as you think it is.

I didnt say it was mind control I said it can be seen as a type of mind control because you altering a persons perception. In order to trick the mind you need to have some power over it.

Possibly, other examples?

actaully Logan did put him down. wendigo simply got back up due to healing factor. actaully berserker is as good as I think.

no it can't be seen as a type of midn control, because in no way shape or form is it controlling your mind. It tricking it which is completely different

No point in giving other examples since it does not aply to this debate.

why do you always gotta take shit off topic?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
what the hell does this have to do with the debate?

Mauvais wendigo.............was pwning all of alpha flight at the same time.

The guy would wtf pwn hulk.

Ermmm dunno, maybe because Mauvais was using Wendigos power?

Originally posted by Battlehammer
actaully Logan did put him down. wendigo simply got back up due to healing factor. actaully berserker is as good as I think.

It was a one off. Wolverine was putting everything into and them some to KO wendigo, all the other examples are of him getting beaten up by Wendigo.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

no it can't be seen as a type of midn control, because in no way shape or form is it controlling your mind. It tricking it which is completely different

In order to put illuisons in somebodies mind you need to have some sort of manipluation over the mind....do you not? Manipulation is another word for control. 😐

Originally posted by Alfheim
Ermmm dunno, maybe because Mauvais was using Wendigos power?

mauvis wendigo is a beast and was owning every one and any one he fought.

Originally posted by Alfheim
It was a one off. Wolverine was putting everything into and them some to KO wendigo, all the other examples are of him getting beaten up by Wendigo.

Originally posted by Alfheim
In order to put illuisons in somebodies mind you need to have some sort of manipluation over the mind....do you not? Manipulation is another word for control. 😐

It not actaully. You have to control some ones mind forcing them to do something. Illussions are tricking tjhe mind by plant falses infor or simply making any one they see look like enemies.

also this issue took place prior to Logan even having a healing factor.........

Originally posted by Battlehammer
..........what? Of courses he was usign wendigo powers.

mauvis wendigo is a beast and was owning every one and any one he fought.

...and a beserk wolverine would not have made any difference.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

what other examples? what are you babbling about. The debate was always about berserker rage not about beating wendigo.

The only other example of Wolverine beating Wendigo is by stabbing it in the eye....if his beserk rage was so good he would have probably used it. Hell he only used the beserk rage to stop misters X telepathy apart from that he would probably not have used it. His beserk rage seems overated.

Originally posted by Battlehammer

It not actaully. You have to control some ones mind forcing them to do something. Illussions are tricking tjhe mind by plant falses infor or simply making any one they see look like enemies.

also this issue took place prior to Logan even having a healing factor.........

I see so planting false information isnt manipulation?