Captain America (Steve) vs. Wildcat and Green Arrow

Originally posted by namorsubby
Cry ignorance on my behalf all you wont, but bruce has the feats to justify it.

So according to u Bruce is = to Slade physically?

[QUOTE=13481751]Originally posted by namorsubby
[B]
Its also humorous how you conjure up these quantifiable measurements of caps speed advantage in relation to other characters. Of course their unfounded.

Originally posted by namorsubby

Ted has no armor to pad his damage soak either. in that regard, is cap really superior there?

Originally posted by namorsubby
Cry ignorance on my behalf all you wont, but bruce has the feats to justify it.

An example of him tagging someone fast once doesnt mean much. Teds tagged superspeedsters multiple times and is still slower for instance.and i love how you assume cap was holding back and that that is why he didnt kill shang.lol

one shot from cap is not killing wildcat, period. Check durability feats.

Its also humorous how you conjure up these quantifiable measurements of caps speed advantage in relation to other characters. Of course their unfounded.

advantages acknowledge on caps behalf, but Ted can and will contend...hard. you know wildcat? then you should know him being outmatched is pretty much he norm. not responding with a phenomonal effort regardless isnt.

Ted has no armor to pad his damage soak either. in that regard, is cap really superior there?

No, Bruce doesn't have the feats to justify it. You've been asked several times to provide evidence of Batman replicated Cap's best feats and the rare time you bother to post or cite anything (usually you just ignore the request and then wait a few pages before you say Batman=Cap again, hoping no one remembers you can't back it up), what you post doesn't come close to Caps best feats.

Every street tags super speedsters, and the way it is almost always explained is by something along the lines of "I know where they are going to be!" Which essentially means the speedsters ran into their opponents, not that the challenger was "fast" enough to hit them. Outside of rare instances, they aren't valid speed feats, if anything they are skill feats and speed hardly factors into the equation at all. Many streets are skilled enough to recognize the apparent pattern speedsters have (because Speedsters all writen as stupid when they fight MAs) and accurately predict where they are going to be, it has nothing to do with speed and it's not transferable to a fight against a skilled martial artist.

There is very limited muscle protection where the base of the skull connects to the brain stem, which is why it is so dangerous to hit someone there. If someone who can lift two tons hit a person in that area in any meaningful way, it would kill them instantly. Durability doesn't really factor into, it's simple anatomy.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Im not sure whether you ever read a comic featuring either of these characters, but they dont happen to be an actual dc duo and therefore are not showcased taking down anyone together.

Don't u see anything wrong with ur assumption reguardling there team work. Funny u ask for "proof" when u are in fact the one that needs to provide some for ur insane assumptions on wildcats/green arrow team work

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Cap can handle them same way Slade would. And if this was Slade, you would agree, but some how don't see that Cap moves and reacts on Slade's level. Cap is also a tactical fighting master on and off field. Well suited to deal with these two at once. When you are a war vet you are accustom to taking on multiple enemies on the field at once.

Apples and oranges buddy.....apples and oranges.

Originally posted by namorsubby
NO HE WONT. Why? Because he is not slade and slade is not him. He doesnt have anywhere near the same team beating creditials or the brain ability which serves as an explanantion for it. Youre still want slade to be caps dc barometer, but theyre just not that similar.

Apples and oranges buddy.....apples and oranges.

Sure ok. You're talking to the wrong guy if you think I'm not well inform on Slade my friend. Cap has the feats. Maybe read more Cap.. That's an option.

Originally posted by namorsubby
NO HE WONT. Why? Because he is not slade and slade is not him. He doesnt have anywhere near the same team beating creditials or the brain ability which serves as an explanantion for it. Youre still want slade to be caps dc barometer, but theyre just not that similar.

Apples and oranges buddy.....apples and oranges.

SO you think Batman is physically = of Slade?

by brain ability u mean he uses 10% less then normal humans? good for slade 😆

Originally posted by namorsubby
NO HE WONT. Why? Because he is not slade and slade is not him. He doesnt have anywhere near the same team beating creditials or the brain ability which serves as an explanantion for it. Youre still want slade to be caps dc barometer, but theyre just not that similar.

Apples and oranges buddy.....apples and oranges.

😆

Originally posted by namorsubby
Im not sure whether you ever read a comic featuring either of these characters, but they dont happen to be an actual dc duo and therefore are not showcased taking down anyone together.

Cap is another matter. Show me what hes done consistentlly vs multiple assailants with some kind of creditials. You guys seem to think cannon fodder and these two are equal.

Then show examples of either of them holding their own(or beating) a Cap level character.

namorsubby I'll break it down. Not only are Slade and Cap near physically equals, but they have both displayed the ability to control their metabolism's operational speed. Slade has been shown to practice meditation during downtime. Which is why Slade can fool machines into thinking his body's not recovering when in fact it is. Slade strives for control over all of his powers.

But did you know that Cap can speed up his metabolism to more efficiently work out the effects of drugs or poisons within his body? Cap's mind and senses are enhanced to the point that he can't forget anything and has prefect recall of all the events in his life. He also learns fast and can apply and asses every skill he's ever learned in any situation against multiple targets. In Secret Avengers #7, Steve preformed a backwards flip, while in mid air he evaded, guarded against and attacked three targets in one move. If you think that Slade is so physically superior or far out of Steve's range, you're highly mistaken. Slade heals faster no arguing there.

But Steve's mind works fast which is why he can react as fast as he does. Cap's mind can also efficiently asses problems and multiple threats, which is why he's capable of efficiently performing all of the tasks needed on the battle field which would normally take groups of soliders to accomplish. Like his name, Cap is a SUPER SOLIDER.....

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
It not conjure up he been stated as beeing 3 times stronger and faster then cable and Bucky I believe. He also been implied and stated by DD that Capt significantly faster and stronger if not mistaken.

Yes yes he is.

if cap is more durable without armor, show me that too.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
No, Bruce doesn't have the feats to justify it. You've been asked several times to provide evidence of Batman replicated Cap's best feats and the rare time you bother to post or cite anything (usually you just ignore the request and then wait a few pages before you say Batman=Cap again, hoping no one remembers you can't back it up), what you post doesn't come close to Caps best feats.

Every street tags super speedsters, and the way it is almost always explained is by something along the lines of "I know where they are going to be!" Which essentially means the speedsters ran into their opponents, not that the challenger was "fast" enough to hit them. Outside of rare instances, they aren't valid speed feats, if anything they are skill feats and speed hardly factors into the equation at all. Many streets are skilled enough to recognize the apparent pattern speedsters have (because Speedsters all writen as stupid when they fight MAs) and accurately predict where they are going to be, it has nothing to do with speed and it's not transferable to a fight against a skilled martial artist.

There is very limited muscle protection where the base of the skull connects to the brain stem, which is why it is so dangerous to hit someone there. If someone who can lift two tons hit a person in that area in any meaningful way, it would kill them instantly. Durability doesn't really factor into, it's simple anatomy.

Ive shown bruce feats that prove him COMPARABLE to cap physically, and others have agreed. The problem is cap enthusiasts see things however they wish. I never said batman was superior or even exactly equal. I never said he match caps absolute BEST physical feats, but he is close to cap physically according to feats. You act as if the whole world disagrees when its just you and the other handful of cap extremists running around.

wildcat is also a trained martial artist. one that wont be standing still while caps attacks. hes not as fast, just faster than you wish to potray him.

wildcat routinely survives damage that should logically kill a human. that kind of reasoning doesnt work here. and durability does factor in whenever youre talking about any means of physical harm. caps not killing ted with one blow, period.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
and yet u assume they fight perfectly to gather to such levels that they would be able to time arrow hitting capt one place and a punch another at the time same time?

Don't u see anything wrong with ur assumption reguardling there team work. Funny u ask for "proof" when u are in fact the one that needs to provide some for ur insane assumptions on wildcats/green arrow team work

You guys just cant seem to get your head around the fact that wildcat and ollie arent actually teammates and therefore have no instances of working together. They are however long time team members who know how to coordinate attacks with others.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Sure ok. You're talking to the wrong guy if you think I'm not well inform on Slade my friend. Cap has the feats. Maybe read more Cap.. That's an option.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
SO you think Batman is physically = of Slade?

by brain ability u mean he uses 10% less then normal humans? good for slade 😆

i will never understand how so many people here have all misinterpreted slades statement about his brain power and decided to poke fun at it.

human: 10% brain capacity functional
slade: 90% brain capacity functional

pretty simple. i guess common belief and common sense arent one and the same.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
In Wolverine Origins; Cap had the upper hand and then Wolverine turns the tides. But all in all, it was a great showing for both.

It seemed like he got the upper hand when he grabbed the muramasa blade... but all "good" it did him was sending Wolverine into a berserker rage. Which almost cost him his life.

Originally posted by Silent Master
Then show examples of either of them holding their own(or beating) a Cap level character.

But sure ted has beaten people like hawkman, solomon grundy, vixen, etc. Ollies beaten slade.

Originally posted by namorsubby
individually? You know this is a team effort right? I always feel as if i have to remind you of the simplest things.

But sure ted has beaten people like hawkman, solomon grundy, vixen, etc. Ollies beaten slade.

If neither one can at least hold their own against a Cap level character, the chances aren't very good that they'll win in a team fight...seeing as they have next to zero exp fighting as a team.

Originally posted by Silent Master
If neither one can at least hold their own against a Cap level character, the chances aren't very good that they'll win in a team fight...seeing as they have next to zero exp fighting as a team.

They have tons of experience fighting as a team....with their teams. That means they now how too coorperate well with fellow heroes and would no doubt do the same here

Originally posted by namorsubby
but they can(see above post)

They have tons of experience fighting as a team....with their teams. That means they now how too coorperate well with fellow heroes and would no doubt do the same here

Deathstroke is the only one from the above list that close to Cap in regards to stats/skill(comparable stats/less skilled).

At a basic level maybe, but they're not going to be working together as well as say Batman and Nightwing, Luke Cage and Iron Fist or Human Torch and Thing.

Ollie didn't beat Slade and that's bs... ollie set Slade in a trap. It was not a straight up fight. If Slade were able to move his legs during the sword fight, Ollie would've had no chance at all.

Frankly bringing up Grundy or Hawkman is irrelevant to discussion, when Captain America has beaten guys like the Hulk and the Wrecking Crew in melee combat. As if getting into a who has beat who fight against Captain America is going to end in the favour of either of these two lol. You need to cite examples of them beating skilled street level fighters of Captain America's caliber, which you haven't done (and can't do). You mentioned Slade, but that was an example of prep and of little relevance to the discussion at hand. Green Arrow briefly stalemated Batman once in - I think - a three page "fight" (one of the pages with a single panel IIRC), but even that ended with a Bat'a'rang up against Ollie's neck. Captain America is just in a different league then these two.

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Ollie didn't beat Slade and that's bs... ollie set Slade in a trap. It was not a straight up fight. If Slade were able to move his legs during the sword fight, Ollie would've had no chance at all.

Why am I not surprised that he left out important information?

Itz like you guys expect them to have been matched up against a damn dc replica of steve at some in their histories.....youre being unrealistic and vague with your demands, as usual. Ted has beat more powerful and formmidable foes, but not one that matches caps in every area. Hell, hes fought batman multiple times. Thats more than enough proof that he can contend......but not to a bunch of radicals who think cap can swat somebody with the most abundant and impressive peak human resume like a fly.

I find it strange how the main vocal point has become whether or not the teammates can contend INDIVIDUALLY when theyre on a team. It doesnt matter whether theyd beat him alone. Theyd wipe the floor with him in a combined effort.

Why doesnt someone show me some consistent evidence of steve being able to take out multiple creditable assailants. Not fodder. Not multiple villians serving as fodder for the time being(that happens a lot).

Theres no reason why anyone should believe cap takes a majority here. Wildcat will make him work for victory mano e mano. Anyone who can strongly contend with and possibly beat bruce can do the same to steve. Yeah, i said it. No reason to believe otherwise...