Captain America (Steve) vs. Wildcat and Green Arrow

Started by h1a817 pages
h1a8 Senior Member
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Except, having superhuman strength this his inception means Kingpin is above "normal human." He is a superhuman because he has superhuman abilities. He is human only in the sense that he doesn't have the x-gene on his 23 chromosome, and he isn't an alien, but that is essentially a technicality. Fisk is superhuman.

The term "super human" means above human possibility, not above "normal human".

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
U are a retard. honestly u are just so fing stupid.
Perhaps I am. The sad thing is, if it is true then I don't know it.

Dum Dum Dugan Senior Member

Originally posted by h1a8
The term "super human" means above human possibility, not above "normal human".

Perhaps I am. The sad thing is, if it is true then I don't know it.


He not a normal human he a genetic freak, which u dont seem able to proccesses. What normal human in comic or the real world is 600 plus pounds of muscle?

That is pretty sad, and it it very true.

srankmissingnin VP of Comic Knowledge

Originally posted by h1a8
The term "super human" means above human possibility, not above "normal human".

Perhaps I am. The sad thing is, if it is true then I don't know it.

It's not humanly possible, it's Kingpin possible. He is a genetic abnormality, he isn't human, he is superhuman.

h1a8 Senior Member
Originally posted by srankmissingnin
It's not humanly possible, it's Kingpin possible. He is a genetic abnormality, he isn't human, he is superhuman.

Ok, well if Kingpin isn't a pure human then you are right. But if that fact is only based off his feats, then why can't we say that peak humans in comics are not human as well? Is it because Black Panther claimed to be peak human, which holds the glue to the whole thing?

psycho gundam The Nightmare of Solomon

panther is amped, you;d know that if you read comics.

Dum Dum Dugan Senior Member

Originally posted by h1a8
Ok, well if Kingpin isn't a pure human then you are right. But if that fact is only based off his feats, then why can't we say that peak humans in comics are not human as well? Is it because Black Panther claimed to be peak human, which holds the glue to the whole thing?

do u not get that kingpin is a genetic freak. Who else is 600 pounds of pure muscle? no one, he a genetic freak, he not held to the same standard as normal hmans because he not normal he adnormality.

We have very defined peak humans which are bucky, Dardevil, current black panther ect.

h1a8 Senior Member

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
do u not get that kingpin is a genetic freak. Who else is 600 pounds of pure muscle? no one, he a genetic freak, he not held to the same standard as normal hmans because he not normal he adnormality.

We have very defined peak humans which are bucky, Dardevil, current black panther ect.

What's the purpose of this post? Did you see me disagree with Shrank in my last post? I'm starting to think that maybe I'm not retarded after all.

srankmissingnin VP of Comic Knowledge
Originally posted by psycho gundam
panther is amped, you;d know that if you read comics.

Panther is no longer amped, you'd know this if you read comics. 😎

Dum Dum Dugan Senior Member

Originally posted by h1a8
What's the purpose of this post? Did you see me disagree with Shrank in my last post? I'm starting to think that maybe I'm not retarded after all.

because ur not agreeing with him. and u keep saying if he not a pure human. Kingpin is a human, he just a genetic freak of nature. He not held to the same limits as other humans because he geneticly abnormality. He was born superhuman because of his incredible size and build.

naw ur deff retarded.

srankmissingnin VP of Comic Knowledge
Originally posted by h1a8
Ok, well if Kingpin isn't a pure human then you are right. But if that fact is only based off his feats, then why can't we say that peak humans in comics are not human as well? Is it because Black Panther claimed to be peak human, which holds the glue to the whole thing?

Kingpin is a human, born of humans but he is an anomaly, like a calf born with two heads... only rarer. He is superhuman.

Current Panther is one of half a dozen peak human characters I have cited, repeatedly in the course of this discussion. He and Batroc just have to two most recent examples of being said to be peak human on panel.

h1a8 Senior Member

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Kingpin is a human, born of humans but he is an anomaly, like a calf born with two heads... only rarer. He is superhuman.

Current Panther is one of half a dozen peak human characters I have cited, repeatedly in the course of this discussion. He and Batroc just have to two most recent examples of being said to be peak human on panel.

Ok I can see your point and agree with you. One last thing, what specific feats does Bucky has (not talking) that shows he has peak human strength? Be specific and don't mention outcomes of fights (because weakers have beaten strongers many times in comics). I will accept any decent proof you have.

The proof can be tugging/grappling/or pulling against another peak human and at least holding his own. Or it can be feats against nature (lifting, pulling, etc. feats in general). Just give a few only.

namorsubby Senior Member

I dont think bucky has peak human strength. Think of people like daredevil. No meta strength but im pretty sure he has more impressive strength feats.

Also, Steve not winning this match......at all. Hes not gonna outfight Ted while trying to evade and/or block Ollie arrows. This team will no doubt employ strategy against him. He may be fast, but hes not fast enough to fight these two guys at once......especially when one has a ranged weapon(along with outstading accuracy)

Dum Dum Dugan Senior Member

Originally posted by namorsubby
I dont think bucky has peak human strength. Think of people like daredevil. No meta strength but im pretty sure he has more impressive strength feats.

Also, Steve not winning this match......at all. Hes not gonna outfight Ted while trying to evade and/or block Ollie arrows. This team will no doubt employ strategy against him. He may be fast, but hes not fast enough to fight these two guys at once......especially when one has a ranged weapon(along with outstading accuracy)

Bucky is easily on DD strength level. (with bionic arm he stronger)

I disagree. Because the way they match up, Wild Cat has to engage capt in melee alone while ollie attempts to take him out via range. Capt Shield will be hgue advantage over Wild cat in melee, and allow him protection against Ollie range attacks. Also whats to stop capt from through the weak and slower wildcat into ollie incoming arrows?

Bentley Seitei

Bucky is likely on DD's strength class, but he may not have the same feats -bionic arm makes it harder to distinguish actual arm strength feats anyways-.

namorsubby Senior Member

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Bucky is easily on DD strength level. (with bionic arm he stronger)

I disagree. Because the way they match up, Wild Cat has to engage capt in melee alone while ollie attempts to take him out via range. Capt Shield will be hgue advantage over Wild cat in melee, and allow him protection against Ollie range attacks. Also whats to stop capt from through the weak and slower wildcat into ollie incoming arrows?

what exactly has bucky done strength feat wise to be considered peak human or on par with DD.

Wildcat does not have to fight alone. What exactly makes you think ollie cant join in h2h any time? Him using his arrows at range would be way more effective anyway. Cap either gonna use his shield against wildcat or incoming arrows at a given time. He cant do them both. Hes also not gonna just be beating ted while dodging ollies arrows. Its just not gonna happen. Dividing his time trying to engage these two opponents is the only option. Hes not the flash. While hes busy with one, the other will have an opportunity to take him down.

idk where you think ted is speedwise, but caps not just grabbing him and moving him in the direction of a fired arrow before he can react. multiple point blank lasers, dozens of machine guns close range, teds dodged them. hes tagged jay garrick multiple times, but if your gonna cry pis he has several other examples of tagging those with superhuman speed.

Marvelknight Authority

Wildcat's speed isn't nowhere near Steve's. The notion is buffoonery... Batman, Daredevil and Dick Grayson have dodge everything you just stated WC can. And they aren't near Steve's speed either. Steve is not peak human, he's above it by levels. If he can fight 20 armed trolls (all physically superior to humans and without his shield) at once he can beat these two. What is there to debate? Nothing....

Dum Dum Dugan Senior Member

Originally posted by namorsubby
what exactly has bucky done strength feat wise to be considered peak human or on par with DD.

Match other known peak humans, been stated peak-human ect.

He also match Superhumans with his bionic arm.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Wildcat does not have to fight alone. What exactly makes you think ollie cant join in h2h any time?

That fact he get utterly curb stomped if he attempted to.

Originally posted by namorsubby

Him using his arrows at range would be way more effective anyway.

I agree.

Originally posted by namorsubby

Cap either gonna use his shield against wildcat or incoming arrows at a given time. He cant do them both.

You assume that there attacks will be comming at the same time, which seems doubtful, and overestimation of there team work.

Originally posted by namorsubby

. Hes also not gonna just be beating ted while dodging ollies arrows.

He could, but I doubt thats what he do. He likely knock Wild cat asside and close the distance to ollie and finish him quickly. That is something capt very much could do.

Originally posted by namorsubby

Its just not gonna happen. Dividing his time trying to engage these two opponents is the only option. Hes not the flash. While hes busy with one, the other will have an opportunity to take him down.

No one said he was. Nor does he need to be. He could easily close to distance to ollie, and once up close ollie screwed and won't last long at all. He out match physically and in terms of skill

Originally posted by namorsubby

idk where you think ted is speedwise, but caps not just grabbing him and moving him in the direction of a fired arrow before he can react.

I think he slower then capt by a noticable margin. Capt could grab him and throwhim (which does not take any time at all, and capt a judo expert, faster and has significant strength advantage. Such tactics could make ollie think twice about firing his arrows when his teamate is engaging capt.

Originally posted by namorsubby
multiple point blank lasers, dozens of machine guns close range, teds dodged them. hes tagged jay garrick multiple times, but if your gonna cry pis he has several other examples of tagging those with superhuman speed.

So has ever other street leveler. Capt is faster, fact. He has far more consistent feats of speed. Fact Wildcat tagged speedsters does not make him on Capt level in speed, in the slightest.

Deadline Junior Member

WC wouldn't get curbstomped by Cap. Don't know where people are getting this from.

Dum Dum Dugan Senior Member

Originally posted by Deadline
WC wouldn't get curbstomped by Cap. Don't know where people are getting this from.

Who said that?

I said Ollie would, not WC. If your referring to me that is.

namorsubby Senior Member

no one is saying that wildcat is as fast as steve or on par in h2h. I dont know if you guy actually read and comprehend what i post or what.

The fact is you guys are just being unrealistic. Caps not gonna be fighting ted effectively while dodging and blocking ollie arrows(even if theyre not attacking at the EXACT same time), and hes not gonna just run to wherever ollie is, finish him that quickly, and just run back to finish ted. What is ted doing this whole time? Standing still? I guess cap became quicksilver fast and i missed it. Ive said it a dozen times. Cap outmatches these characters, true, but one of these guys can easily occupy/demand caps full attention for a length of time. And bh youre honestly underestimating their teamwork. Teds been working with the jsa for about 70 yrs now but you act as if the notion of a coordinated simultaneous attack is farfetched......it isnt. These guys are more than good enough individually to keep caps hands full. Theyll be multiple opportunities for either to take steve down while hes occupied with the other.

Caps faster. But hes not grabbing and moving ted precisely in the path of a fired arrow before ted can react. If you disagree you need to show me why.

These two characters are being lowballed........plain and simple.

Edit:
its hilarious how you used an example of cap beating "superhuman" cannon fodder as a justification for him winning here marvelknight. Thats hardly rational. Cite examples of him beating multiple characters with some creditials consistently and that would be justification. Not him beating opponents designed to be punching bags.