Captain America (Steve) vs. Wildcat and Green Arrow · Comic Book 'Versus' Forum

Marvelknight Authority

Originally posted by namorsubby
no one is saying that wildcat is as fast as steve or on par in h2h. I dont know if you guy actually read and comprehend what i post or what.
The fact is you guys are just being unrealistic. Caps not gonna be fighting ted effectively while dodging and blocking ollie arrows(even if theyre not attacking at the EXACT same time), and hes not gonna just run to wherever ollie is, finish him that quickly, and just run back to finish ted. What is ted doing this whole time? Standing still? I guess cap became quicksilver fast and i missed it. Ive said it a dozen times. Cap outmatches these characters, true, but one of these guys can easily occupy/demand caps full attention for a length of time. And bh youre honestly underestimating their teamwork. Teds been working with the jsa for about 70 yrs now but you act as if the notion of a coordinated simultaneous attack is farfetched......it isnt. These guys are more than good enough individually to keep caps hands full. Theyll be multiple opportunities for either to take steve down while hes occupied with the other.
Caps faster. But hes not grabbing and moving ted precisely in the path of a fired arrow before ted can react. If you disagree you need to show me why.
These two characters are being lowballed........plain and simple.
Edit:
its hilarious how you used an example of cap beating "superhuman" cannon fodder as a justification for him winning here marvelknight. Thats hardly rational. Cite examples of him beating multiple characters with some creditials consistently and that would be justification. Not him beating opponents designed to be punching bags.

I can read and comprehen very well. You brought up WC's speed and what he can dodge as a point to show how fast he his. But it ain't fast enough.. Read Avenger Prime #1 and you'll see what I mean. And also...

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Steve could distract them and keep them off guard with a shield toss; leaving either one of them open for an attack. Steve is too fast for AC and fast enough to engage both of them this way. Steve will dodge most if not all of AC's arrows. And can put him down easy enough to deal with WC at the end. That's kinda how I see it.

Note: AC is meant to be GA (Green Arrow)

srankmissingnin VP of Comic Knowledge

Originally posted by Deadline
WC wouldn't get curbstomped by Cap. Don't know where people are getting this from.

He isn't going to get his open mouth placed on the curb and the back of his head stomped on, but he will be quickly, and decisively beaten by Cap.

namorsubby Senior Member

Teds not fast enough to react before being plucked up and ACCURATELY tossed in a specific direction as to intercept a fired arrow by Steve. I beg to differ.

Let me reinterate. What exactly is the other opponent doing while cap is working on taking down one? Standing still? Staring in awe of caps apparent newlly acquired supersonic speed? No. He attacks one in an attempt to put him down, and the other will come to aid fast enough. A moments distraction will not buy cap enough to dispatch either opponent. Its like you think steve taking one of these guys down will happen in mere moments. No. Hell have to contend with either for more than long enough for their teammate to come to aid

namorsubby Senior Member

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
He isn't going to get his open mouth placed on the curb and the back of his head stomped on, but he will be quickly, and decisively beaten by Cap.

not before his partner can provide aid. Not "quickly" at all even. Wildcat can and will contend, even alone, for some time.

srankmissingnin VP of Comic Knowledge

A serious Cap would put down Ted easier then Wolverine stomped Shang-Chi. You'd be lucky if it was a six panel fight.

Marvelknight Authority

Originally posted by namorsubby
Teds not fast enough to react before being plucked up and ACCURATELY tossed in a specific direction as to intercept a fired arrow by Steve. I beg to differ.
Let me reinterate. What exactly is the other opponent doing while cap is working on taking down one? Standing still? Staring in awe of caps apparent newlly acquired supersonic speed? No. He attacks one in an attempt to put him down, and the other will come to aid fast enough. A moments distraction will not buy cap enough to dispatch either opponent. Its like you think steve taking one of these guys down will happen in mere moments. No. Hell have to contend with either for more than long enough for their teammate to come to aid

Did you not see in Secret Avengers #7 how fast Cap was moving while engaging multiple opponents? What about the scene in Civil War #1? Cap's accuracy with that shield is uncanny. He's even better at accuracy with his shield than Ollie is with his Bow and faster. He can ricochet his Shield off of any surface around him. While his shield is whirling around Cap can definitely engage GA while WC is focused on the incoming shield.

namorsubby Senior Member

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
A serious Cap would put down Ted easier then Wolverine stomped Shang-Chi. You'd be lucky if it was a six panel fight.

underestimation.

High end cap? Sure, why not. Normal cap, even being "serious", hell no. Low meta(presumably) or not, Teds not going down without putting up major resistance. Teds made trouble for those who clearly outmatch him before, and more blatantly so than cap does.

Marvelknight Authority

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
A serious Cap would put down Ted easier then Wolverine stomped Shang-Chi. You'd be lucky if it was a six panel fight.

And with two opponents looking him in the face, Cap will be very serious.

srankmissingnin VP of Comic Knowledge

Originally posted by namorsubby
underestimation.
High end cap? Sure, why not. Normal cap, even being "serious", hell no. Low meta(presumably) or not, Teds not going down without putting up major resistance. Teds made trouble for those who clearly outmatch he before, and more blatantly so than cap does.

It isn't an underestimation of Ted, nor is it an overestimation of Cap, it is merely an accurate assessment of the characters. You believe Batman = Captain America, so obviously it is going to seem outlandish to someone not familiar with the characters abilities like yourself.

Just look at Steve's training match with Shang-Chi. There is part of it where Shang-Chi is completely stationary for three panels, while Cap moves around behind him, and elbows him in the back of the neck / skull. If Steve wasn't holding back his strength he could easily instantly kill or ko a fighter with that attack, and he did it fast enough that his opponent - a fighter with frequent displays of chi amped superhuman speed - was completely stationary relative to his own speed. Ted doesn't stand a shot in hell of beating Steve, the simple reality is he is fighting someone 3-4 times stronger, 3-4 times faster, more durable, more skilled, with nearly infinite stamina and a superior weaponry. It's not a fight, and Green Arrow doesn't even begin to start to balance that scale.

namorsubby Senior Member

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Did you not see in Secret Avengers #7 how fast Cap was moving while engaging multiple opponents? What about the scene in Civil War #1? Cap's accuracy with that shield is uncanny. He's even better at accuracy with his shield than Ollie is with his Bow and faster. He can ricochet his Shield off of any surface around him. While his shield is whirling around Cap can definitely engage GA while WC is focused on the incoming shield.

Ollie and Ted dont = cannon fodder. Engaging multiple crash test dummies doesnt justify cap effectively engaging and dispatching these two formmidable street levelers.

I very much doubt that cap shield throwing is more accurate than ollies archery, and how would you prove it?

Youre still acting as if cap will dispatch one of these guys in mere moments. Before his thrown shield runs its course in fact. Not gonna happen.

Dum Dum Dugan Senior Member

Originally posted by namorsubby
no one is saying that wildcat is as fast as steve or on par in h2h. I dont know if you guy actually read and comprehend what i post or what.

I read what u said, I simply think Ollie is almost a non factor. He more or less hawlk eye, he get the boot against capt.

Originally posted by namorsubby
The fact is you guys are just being unrealistic. Caps not gonna be fighting ted effective while dodging and blocking ollie arrows,

I dont think your being realistic either. U pretend like Capt the only one who needs to worry about the arrows. he has a shield, he also much faster then WC. If your fighting someone in melee combat, while ur teammate is firing arrows at uour opponent, has nothing to fear ur dead wrong. Capt can knock WC into the arrows if the opening permits it self. I think u are pretending ollie will be attacking Capt on hinder, which is far from true. He will have to worry about hitting his teamate, making him shoot far less often. Hell Sabre-tooth has done similar thens to Spiderman and Punisher, Easily closing the distance. Pu isher had to pull back shots, just like ollie will have to.

Originally posted by namorsubby
and hes not gonna just run to wherever ollie is, finish him that quickly, and just run back to finish ted.

I not saying he finish ted quick. I am saying he finish ollie quickly. It is well within his abilities to bash WC who slower, weaker and not as good of a fighter out of his way, and clear the distance to Ollie extremely fast. WC can give chase but he will be quite behind and giving Capt a few seconds he needs to take Ollie down. Once Ollie down it Capt vs WC.

Problem is not with WC, it with the fact ollie a very weak link and extremely ill suited for fighting Capt.

Originally posted by namorsubby
What is ted doing this whole time? Standing still?

No he be going after capt, but he signicantly slower. Capt bashes him out of the way, he could great quite a bit of distance between him and WC on his charge towards ollie.

Originally posted by namorsubby
I guess cap became quicksilver fast and i missed it.

He does not need to be quick silver fast, becuase he does not need much time at all to take Ollie out. Capt running a mile did it under a minut. he is signicantly faster then WC is traveling speed.

Originally posted by namorsubby
Ive said it a dozen times. Cap outmatches these characters, true, but one of these guys can easily occupy/demand caps full attention for a length of time.

I disagree. Capt faster, stronger much better fighter and has weapon both are very ill suited for dealing with. Capt can simply rush WC knock him asside (not out by any means) and give him the time to great the distance to he needs to take ollie out. WC lack of range weapons makes this extremely possible. Because with his shield and speed he have zero trouble closing the distance to Ollie.

Originally posted by namorsubby
And bh youre honestly underestimating their teamwork.

I dontt think I am at all

Originally posted by namorsubby

Teds been working with the jsa for about 70 yrs now but you act as if the notion of a coordinated simultaneous attack is farfetched.

Becuase it is far fetch to assume they could have perfect harmony with there attacks, base don literally no evidence of the two have extended teamups with one another. Simply beign on a team for 70 years does not make u a master of team combat with any hero u come across.

I find it funny u simply assume they would be able to attack at the same moment, despite never doing so anything remotely consistently or at all. Do u understand the type of timing u have to have down for you to time arrows being shot at range hiting an opponent a tthe same instance as melee combatant is punching at them? Let a lone in such a way not to endanger WC with stray arrows, or being smashed into on coming one.

Originally posted by namorsubby

.....it isnt. These guys are more than good enough individually to keep caps hands full.

There not though. WC is, ollie not. He not well suited for fighting capt nor would he stand a chance. Hawlk eye is pretty much marvel version of Ollie, and he get smash/ has admitted he get smashed and in fact I believe has gotten smashed by capt. This idea that Ollie will give capt a handful is simply farfetched

Originally posted by namorsubby

Theyll be multiple opportunities for either to take steve down while hes occupied with the other.

There more opportunities for capt to simply blast WC asside and overtake ollie. There really nothing they can do about it. Ollie best bet is to make distance but capt faster and stronger then WC. He could easily bash WC asside with his sheild and make a break for Ollie. WC will be chasing him I do not doubt, but being knocked back/on the ground with some one significantly faster then u running full tilt at ur teamate with no range options open to u to stop him, does not paint a pretty picture for ollie.

Originally posted by namorsubby

Caps faster. But hes not grabbing and moving ted precisely in the path of a fired arrow before ted can react.

Before he can react? DO u understand how a fight goes? Capt is fighting WC in melee, with ollie launching arrows at capt, do u understand that there is not room to react to a mid flight arrow u dont see coming that your opponent bashes u into.........I don't think u get it. He not going to grabb pricisely in place, he has no need to, ollie attempting to hit him, all he needs to do is knock WC in his own path, blocking the arrow. This is not some difficult feat when ur fighting in close against an opponent and someone shooting arrow into the mdidle of the fight.

Originally posted by namorsubby

If you disagree you need to show me why.

I dont have to prove a negative. U have to proof there as good a team as your trying to pretend they are. Becuase frankly ur arguements ridiculous. You think WC can fight capt in melee with ollie shooting arrows into it, with no fear of sust tactics back firing, despite the fact he has no defense like capt does, nor are u factoring in how close a melee fight is and how minimal room Ollie has to get his shots off, and how easily moving targets can change while arrow remains in a fixed line.

Originally posted by namorsubby

These two characters are being lowballed........plain and simple.

No there not. Ur just overrating there team work and not factoring how stylistically they match up.

U have one guy firing arrows into melee combatants, trying to aim for a single individual, while not hitting his ally. However that opponent has a shield, is faster and stronger and expert tactician and top tier fighter. It not rocket science to see, that the faster, stronger better fighter with a defense would be capable of using his opponents range weapon against his melee combatant, by knocking the weaker and slower opponent into mid flight projectile when there engrossed in combat.

Dum Dum Dugan Senior Member

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
It isn't an underestimation of Ted, nor is it an overestimation of Cap, it is merely an accurate assessment of the characters. You believe Batman = Captain America, so obviously it is going to seem outlandish to someone not familiar with the characters abilities like yourself.

well there his first mistake. Batman being = to Capt 😆

Scubby u do understand Capt is Superhuman right? He pretty much Slade physically, even better in certain aspects.

Marvelknight Authority

Originally posted by namorsubby
underestimation.
High end cap? Sure, why not. Normal cap, even being "serious", hell no. Low meta(presumably) or not, Teds not going down without putting up major resistance. Teds made trouble for those who clearly outmatch him before, and more blatantly so than cap does.

Cap is a fighting machine; a iron warhorse with more years of experience then Ted. Cap has beaten or had the upper hand against some of Marvel's very best h2h fighters; Wolverine, Daredevil, Iron Fist, Batroc, Crossbone, Baron Zemo (father and son), Zaran, Winter Solider, Taskmaster and Black Panther. Cap has been in countless wars, constantly fighting battles on the field. There is no way WC is standing the test of time against Cap even with GA.

namorsubby Senior Member

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
It isn't an underestimation of Ted, nor is it an overestimation of Cap, it is merely an accurate assessment of the characters. You believe Batman = Captain America, so obviously it is going to seem outlandish to someone not familiar with the characters abilities like yourself.
Just look at Steve's training match with Shang-Chi. There is part of it where Shang-Chi is completely stationary for three panels, while Cap moves around behind him, and elbows him in the back of the neck / skull. If Steve wasn't holding back his strength he could easily instantly kill or ko a fighter with that attack, and he did it fast enough that his opponent - a fighter with frequent displays of chi amped superhuman speed - was completely stationary relative to his own speed. Ted doesn't stand a shot in hell of beating Steve, the simple reality is he is fighting someone 3-4 times stronger, 3-4 times faster, more durable, more skilled, with nearly infinite stamina and a superior weaponry. It's not a fight, and Green Arrow doesn't even begin to start to balance that scale.

Cry ignorance on my behalf all you wont, but bruce has the feats to justify it.

An example of him tagging someone fast once doesnt mean much. Teds tagged superspeedsters multiple times and is still slower for instance.and i love how you assume cap was holding back and that that is why he didnt kill shang.lol

one shot from cap is not killing wildcat, period. Check durability feats.

Its also humorous how you conjure up these quantifiable measurements of caps speed advantage in relation to other characters. Of course their unfounded.

advantages acknowledge on caps behalf, but Ted can and will contend...hard. you know wildcat? then you should know him being outmatched is pretty much he norm. not responding with a phenomonal effort regardless isnt.

Ted has no armor to pad his damage soak either. in that regard, is cap really superior there?

StiltmanFTW CBvF

Originally posted by Marvelknight
Cap is a fighting machine; a iron warhorse with more years of experience then Ted. Cap has beaten or had the upper hand against some of Marvel's very best h2h fighters; Wolverine

When...?