Captain America (Steve) vs. Wildcat and Green Arrow

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
Were did he lie and resort to trickery?

This is priceless coming from the guy who insists wolverine peak-human and when ask to prove such statements......u ignore the request (seems like ur lying if anything)

What non strength feats would these be champ?

No there not, the whole point of strength feats is to gauge what the character consistent level of strength is and there limitations. Honestly ur like talking to a wall.

No there not, that a straight up bull faced lie. He has strength feats over 20 tons, but the majority? prove it. Because ur full of shit.

Kingpin is not peak human (in strength), wtf don't u get? How can anyone be as stupid as ur acting. It not possible. U must be trolling, because no one is this friggin stupid.

Originally posted by h1a8
He lied when he said that 95% of Spidey's strength feats are 10-20 tons.

how is that a lie? again can we see evidence of how thats a lie?

Seems like ur trying to discredit him, because your arguement is garbage.

Originally posted by h1a8
Those wouldn't be strength feats but normal actions. Is Superman lifting a car considered a strength feat?

yes they would. The fact ur trying to play parker up, by pretending there not strength feats is absurdly 😆

Ur arguement is ridiculous, because superman can lift thousands upon thousands of tons, that like the equivalent of spiderman picking up a piece of paper. If ur gunna try to be a smart ass and use examples, try actually using ones that work, as usual you epiclly failed.

Originally posted by h1a8
All of wolverine's showings are non strength feats (except the strength feats).

That can be said of any character, ur arguing semantics, u retard.

Originally posted by h1a8
No it's not. It is to show the upper levels of what a character can do. By definition, Strength feats for spidey are feats out of the norm for him.

No , there feats in which he utilizes his strength. The fact u think only feat beyond characters establish power level counts as feats, just shows how ridiculous ur arguement is.

Originally posted by h1a8

You would forever disagree since you are not using the same definition of Peak Human as I.

So in other words I was right and your trolling.

Originally posted by Dum Dum Dugan
how is that a lie? again can we see evidence of how thats a lie?

Seems like ur trying to discredit him, because your arguement is garbage.

yes they would. The fact ur trying to play parker up, by pretending there not strength feats is absurdly 😆

Ur arguement is ridiculous, because superman can lift thousands upon thousands of tons, that like the equivalent of spiderman picking up a piece of paper. If ur gunna try to be a smart ass and use examples, try actually using ones that work, as usual you epiclly failed.

Rather I exaggerated on the Superman example, my point still stands.
Superman still used super strength to lift the car, so by your definition it should be a strength feat. But it isn't.

That can be said of any character, ur arguing semantics, u retard.

No , there feats in which he utilizes his strength. The fact u think only feat beyond characters establish power level counts as feats, just shows how ridiculous ur arguement is.

so ur arguing semantics?

So in other words I was right and your trolling.

Pure human Bucky is olympic all across the board (comic standards). He is higher than athletic.

Powerless T'challa has stated on panel that he's peak human. Then he went on having a good showing against Kraven.

Originally posted by Bentley
Powerless T'challa has stated on panel that he's peak human. Then he went on having a good showing against Kraven.

Originally posted by h1a8
I don't buy statements unless there exist feats shown to back them up.
What happen in the showing against Kraven to convince you that he is in his strength level?

What according to you would be a good feat that proves peak strength?

Beh, you should take statements into consideration, when you only trust a certain kind of feats you're actually cherry picking feats which is always the wrong way to go.

Black Panther pretty much owned Kraven though

Originally posted by Bentley
What according to you would be a good feat that proves peak strength?

Beh, you should take statements into consideration, when you only trust a certain kind of feats you're actually cherry picking feats which is always the wrong way to go.

With that said, any grappling feats against Kraven would be acceptable (some type of tugging or pushing against each other). There may be other evidences that I might be open too. Just know I will be extremely objective and not bias in any way (I don't care for either character to be honest).

Originally posted by h1a8
Again, a strength feat isn't one where it is beyond a character's level but rather, it is in the upper portion of a character's level.

Rather I exaggerated on the Superman example, my point still stands.
Superman still used super strength to lift the car, so by your definition it should be a strength feat. But it isn't.

It does not even have to be the upper level, simply a degree of effort being used. Strength feats can come in many shapes and sizes.

No that not true at all. Becuase he not putting any degree of effort in. thats not remotely comparable to spiderman in the least. Your arguement still fails. Superman lifitng a car is the equivalent of Spiderman picking up a pebble.

Originally posted by h1a8

My definition of peak human is the highest a pure human can possible achieve in comics (not real life). That means, if I were in a comic and trained well I can become a peak human (real life standards) but not a comic peak human.

Again semantics. I hate people like u, once u start losing a debate with people, you play the semantics game.

I dont care what ur deffinition is, we go by what shown on pannel. The fact u have some crazy definition does not over shadow marvel own establish hiarchy.

By the way not a single comic character reaches your definition of peak human champ.

Originally posted by h1a8

Pure human Bucky is olympic all across the board (comic standards). He is higher than athletic.

Originally posted by h1a8
. Just know I will be extremely objective and not bias in any way (I don't care for either character to be honest).

And you being objective is 😆 😂 🤣 😆 😱 😂 😆

I agree that Bucky has done enough stuff to justify his peak human status, one of the nastiest "regular human" characters of the past year.

Is this seriously still going on? Sheesh.

Captain America (Steve): Superhuman
Captain America (Bucky): Peak Human + Bionic Arm
Black Panther (HSH): Superhuman
Black Panther (Normal): Peak Human
Kraven: Superhuman
Kingpin: Superhuman

It's well established that Bucky is physically the equal of several peak human characters (Crossbones, Batroc, Wolf Spyder operatives) as well as being physically superior to several Olympics (Falcon, Hawkeye, Punisher) and Peak Human Female characters like Black Widow. It's not really a debate.

Oh, that reminds me, Bucky was causally snatching Hawkeye's arrows out of the air while doing a gymnastic routine, so imagine what a serious Steve would do against an inferior archer. 😎

HE's arrows are faster than bullets when he gets serious flirt

Originally posted by Bentley
I agree that Bucky has done enough stuff to justify his peak human status, one of the nastiest "regular human" characters of the past year.

Originally posted by h1a8
In comics, peak human is not the same as peak human in reality. There are other pure humans significantly stronger than Bucky. Thus he can never be a peak human. I would say olympic strength (comic olympic strength) at best.

All characters stronger then Bucky are superhuman.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Is this seriously still going on? Sheesh.

Captain America (Steve): Superhuman
Captain America (Bucky): Peak Human + Bionic Arm
Black Panther (HSH): Superhuman
Black Panther (Normal): Peak Human
Kraven: Superhuman
Kingpin: Superhuman

It's well established that Bucky is physically the equal of several peak human characters (Crossbones, Batroc, Wolf Spyder operatives) as well as being physically superior to several Olympics (Falcon, Hawkeye, Punisher) and Peak Human Female characters like Black Widow. It's not really a debate.

Oh, that reminds me, Bucky was causally snatching Hawkeye's arrows out of the air while doing a gymnastic routine, so imagine what a serious Steve would do against an inferior archer. 😎

You are still ranking things off reality scales. In comics, the scales are higher. A peak human in comics is a superhuman in reality.

As a peak human, there can be no other humans significantly stronger than you (a touch stronger is ok). Otherwise, you are not at the peak of humanity.

How can many be above human if they are human? That would mean they are above themselves, which is a contradiction.

Originally posted by h1a8
You are still ranking things off reality scales. In comics, the scales are higher. A peak human in comics is a superhuman in reality.

As a peak human, there can be no other humans significantly stronger than you (a touch stronger is ok). Otherwise, you are not at the peak of humanity.

How can many be above human if they are human? That would mean they are above themselves, which is a contradiction.

I'm not using a real life scale, I'm using the a comic scale of characters who are established on panel as peak or super human. Anyone listed as peak would be superhuman in the real world, anyone listed as superhuman would be slightly more superhuman in the real world.

Anyone stronger then the characters listed as peak human is superhuman themselves. Period. The limits aren't arbitrary they clearly defined. Daredevil is peak human. Current Panther is peak human. Cross Bones is peak human. We have been told this emphatically ON PANEL, in some cases several times. Characters who are above the established limits of human potential are superhuman, regardless of the reasoning - or lack of reasoning - for their strength. It's not f_cking rocket science.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I'm not using a real life scale, I'm using the a comic scale of characters who are established on panel as peak or super human. Anyone listed as peak would be superhuman in the real world, anyone listed as superhuman would be slightly more superhuman in the real world.

Anyone stronger then the characters listed as peak human is superhuman themselves. Period. The limits aren't arbitrary they clearly defined. Daredevil is peak human. Current Panther is peak human. Cross Bones is peak human. We have been told this emphatically ON PANEL, in some cases several times. Characters who are above the established limits of human potential are superhuman, regardless of the reasoning - or lack of reasoning - for their strength. It's not f_cking rocket science.

Since we are on the same page I can say this to end the argument.

A>A is a contradiction.
1. Super human > pure human is a true statement.
2. But Classic Kingpin and others = pure human and they are also=super human.
3. So this implies super human > super human
which is a contradiction.

Get it?

Except, having superhuman strength this his inception means Kingpin is above "normal human." He is a superhuman because he has superhuman abilities. He is human only in the sense that he doesn't have the x-gene on his 23 chromosome, and he isn't an alien, but that is essentially a technicality. Fisk is superhuman.

Originally posted by h1a8
Good! Now we are on the same page.

Since we are on the same page I can say this to end the argument.

A>A is a contradiction.
1. Super human > pure human is a true statement.
2. But Classic Kingpin and others = pure human and they are also=super human.
3. So this implies super human > super human
which is a contradiction.

Get it?