Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/72524/3215081-3828655963-47566.jpgHit by speed of light is normally the imp in flashs world iirc.
Hold on a sec. Zoom is unable to KO, or even stun Diana from what is shown in that scan, yet he somehow would be able to hurt Tyrant? Beta Ray Bill can destroy planets with his hammer toss, and yet he was unable to even stun Tyrant. What next? Zoom beats the Spectre because he can travel through time? Or the Flash speed-blitzes him, and turn him into a statue?
Originally posted by h1a8
when he struck WW.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/7/72524/3215081-3828655963-47566.jpgHit by speed of light is normally the imp in flashs world iirc.
The IMP has a specific language attached to it. It specifically says that it has the mass of a white dwarf star; in the instance above it wasn't mentioned. Hunter-Zoom has a completely different power source from Wally (who's the only one who actually used IMP). So just because he punched her at light speed doesn't necessarily mean he achieved the same effect.
That would be like saying whenever Zoom (Hunter) achieves light speed he enters the Speed force (just like those whose power source are derived from the speed force do), when in fact he doesn't since he taps into time rather than the SF.
However, that is irrelevant anyway whether he can beat Tyrant or not.
Originally posted by Stoic
Hold on a sec. Zoom is unable to KO, or even stun Diana from what is shown in that scan, yet he somehow would be able to hurt Tyrant? Beta Ray Bill can destroy planets with his hammer toss, and yet he was unable to even stun Tyrant. What next? Zoom beats the Spectre because he can travel through time? Or the Flash speed-blitzes him, and turn him into a statue?
What's even better is that Diana beat zoom in that same issue...
Originally posted by Stoic
Hold on a sec. Zoom is unable to KO, or even stun Diana from what is shown in that scan, yet he somehow would be able to hurt Tyrant? Beta Ray Bill can destroy planets with his hammer toss, and yet he was unable to even stun Tyrant. What next? Zoom beats the Spectre because he can travel through time? Or the Flash speed-blitzes him, and turn him into a statue?
First I never made a case for Zoom here. Second, Zoom didn't intend to kill Diana nor KO her, he plays and teaches or whatever.
Originally posted by operator616
The IMP has a specific language attached to it. It specifically says that it has the mass of a white dwarf star; in the instance above it wasn't mentioned. Hunter-Zoom has a completely different power source from Wally (who's the only one who actually used IMP). So just because he punched her at light speed doesn't necessarily mean he achieved the same effect.That would be like saying whenever Zoom (Hunter) achieves light speed he enters the Speed force (just like those whose power source are derived from the speed force do), when in fact he doesn't since he taps into time rather than the SF.
However, that is irrelevant anyway whether he can beat Tyrant or not.
What's even better is that Diana beat zoom in that same issue...
Great points. From my perspective, Tyrant is, and has shown that he was a Galactus level threat. The Inbetweener is also a Galactus level threat, and many people saw how the Inbetweener deals with herald level beings. There's one scene that we even see the Inbetweener taking multiple hits from a platoon of Galactus' Punisher units, and he took them without blinking. This Zoom, and Flash nonsense has to end.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
Zoom manipulates time for a similar effect.
I know how his powers work. He controls the flow of time around him so it appears he's moving fast.
But he's not actually moving fast. The Flash for example is unable to speedsteal him.
I mean, Rip Hunter doesn't have IMPs, for example.
Are we for example REALLY saying that WW was punched with infinite mass? She tanked a fist that had infinity tons behind it?
Because not even the most ardent WW fan will claim that.
Even when Wally punched Zum, he was only APPROACHING light speed....
Originally posted by operator616
I guess Galactus absorbing an entire planet before facing Tyrant also tells us that he treated him as a child. But how he treated him is irrelevant anyway since we have an on panel fight which clearly shows that Tyrant wasn't some child compared to Galactus. he actually got the better of him.That's not how the Flash's speed works. You have to realize that it requires a lot of concentration for the Flash to operate between seconds. It's not as simple as, hey! the flash has attosecond reaction speed so that means for every second in the real world, several billion years passes for the flash.
No, he can't just live a billion years or even several thousand years in an intensive concentrational state while also figuring out how to beat Tyrant.
This is the main reason why we have showings like Barry unable to react to a stunt gun, or a random thug actually tagging Barry, or Barry requiring 8/100 of a second to change a tire when he went full speed, or Wally sometimes not able to react to lightning, or Wally requiring fifth of a second to react to a bomb, etc... do i have to go on? If the Flashes were always fast enough to just hold the world still for thousands of years whenever they feel like it, these things among countless other instances wouldn't happen.
I'll repeat, Tyrant WAS a child to Galactus UNTIL he absorbed part of his power. Only then he became a semi threat. Not before. Galactus was hungry and fairly weak as to why he agreed to Galactus terms. So basically Tyrant was almost a peer to a starving Galactus AFTER he siphoned off some of his energy. There is a matter of PIS since Galactus could have absorbed Tyrants power like he did eons ago.
Flash isn't shown concentrating when he is operating at great speeds. He and Superman was in a dinner with time almost frozen. Superman had to concentrate just to keep up with flash. Flash wasn't even breaking a sweat, just eating pie and smiling. Flash was also almost shot and killed when he was walking in his apartment sleepy (not concentrating). When the bullet touched his head he reacted and saved himself and when after the sniper all in a super small frame of time. His perception powers just don't turn off, nor does he need to concentrate to activate them.
Wally and Barry have improved over the years. They found ways to increase their speed and reactions. Wally was able to tap into the speed force more and more each passing year. So wallys later feats outweigh his earlier feats. Also there is a matter of PIS in comics. If a character is NORMALLY Faster than light then any instance where they aren't is a matter is PIS. Even averaging attosecond feats with their lows proves 15 billion years instead of 30 billion. I willingly accepted a million times slower (which is less than their average) to show at least 30,000 years. It's exactly like quicksilver in Days of Future Past.
Flash or zoom doesn't need to figure out how to beat Tyrant. Just hit him traveling at many times the speed of light or just imp him.
Originally posted by h1a8
I'll repeat, Tyrant WAS a child to Galactus UNTIL he absorbed part of his power. Only then he became a semi threat. Not before. Galactus was hungry and fairly weak as to why he agreed to Galactus terms. So basically Tyrant was almost a peer to a starving Galactus AFTER he siphoned off some of his energy. There is a matter of PIS since Galactus could have absorbed Tyrants power like he did eons ago.Flash isn't shown concentrating when he is operating at great speeds. He and Superman was in a dinner with time almost frozen. Superman had to concentrate just to keep up with flash. Flash wasn't even breaking a sweat, just eating pie and smiling. Flash was also almost shot and killed when he was walking in his apartment sleepy (not concentrating). When the bullet touched his head he reacted and saved himself and when after the sniper all in a super small frame of time. His perception powers just don't turn off, nor does he need to concentrate to activate them.
Wally and Barry have improved over the years. They found ways to increase their speed and reactions. Wally was able to tap into the speed force more and more each passing year. So wallys later feats outweigh his earlier feats. Also there is a matter of PIS in comics. If a character is NORMALLY Faster than light then any instance where they aren't is a matter is PIS. Even averaging attosecond feats with their lows proves 15 billion years instead of 30 billion. I willingly accepted a million times slower (which is less than their average) to show at least 30,000 years. It's exactly like quicksilver in Days of Future Past.
Flash or zoom doesn't need to figure out how to beat Tyrant. Just hit him traveling at many times the speed of light or just imp him.
A wall of lies.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I know how his powers work. He controls the flow of time around him so it appears he's moving fast.But he's not actually moving fast. The Flash for example is unable to speedsteal him.
I mean, Rip Hunter doesn't have IMPs, for example.
Are we for example REALLY saying that WW was punched with infinite mass? She tanked a fist that had infinity tons behind it?
Because not even the most ardent WW fan will claim that.
Even when Wally punched Zum, he was only APPROACHING light speed....
I don't really care tbh but on panel Zoom hit her with a lightspeed punch and she was still awake. shrug I don't discredit on panel feats just because I don't like them or find them stupid.
Originally posted by Prof. T.C McAbe
I don't really care tbh but on panel Zoom hit her with a lightspeed punch and she was still awake. shrug I don't discredit on panel feats just because I don't like them or find them stupid.
He hit her with a light speed punch, according to her - that, I do not dispute.
100% agree.
That it was an IMP, is what I am disputing.
Originally posted by operator616the imp is based off the special theory of relativity. The closer an object is to the speed of light then the more mass they gain. If zoom hits someone at speeds over light speed then it is purely kinetic energy and momentum that creates the force of impact. If he hits them at speeds very close to light speed then the imp takes effect in addition to the other two.
The IMP has a specific language attached to it. It specifically says that it has the mass of a white dwarf star; in the instance above it wasn't mentioned. Hunter-Zoom has a completely different power source from Wally (who's the only one who actually used IMP). So just because he punched her at light speed doesn't necessarily mean he achieved the same effect.That would be like saying whenever Zoom (Hunter) achieves light speed he enters the Speed force (just like those whose power source are derived from the speed force do), when in fact he doesn't since he taps into time rather than the SF.
However, that is irrelevant anyway whether he can beat Tyrant or not.
What's even better is that Diana beat zoom in that same issue...
If zoom didn't imp WW then he had to hit her with speeds above the speed of light.
Superman can imp, it isn't based off the speed force.
Originally posted by h1a8
the imp is based off the special theory of relativity. The closer an object is to the speed of light then the more mass they gain. If zoom hits someone at speeds over light speed then it is purely kinetic energy and momentum that creates the force of impact. If he hits them at speeds very close to light speed then the imp takes effect in addition to the other two.If zoom didn't imp WW then he had to hit her with speeds above the speed of light.
Superman can imp, it isn't based off the speed force.
What part about it isn't something that happens on a regular basis don't you understand? We debate by using averages, and not one time feats.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85the imp is a misnomer. By imp we mean use relativity to gain additional mass in which to punch with. How much mass depends on how close to the speed of light. Either zoom hit her with speeds under light (imp) or speeds above light ( no imp).
I know how his powers work. He controls the flow of time around him so it appears he's moving fast.But he's not actually moving fast. The Flash for example is unable to speedsteal him.
I mean, Rip Hunter doesn't have IMPs, for example.
Are we for example REALLY saying that WW was punched with infinite mass? She tanked a fist that had infinity tons behind it?
Because not even the most ardent WW fan will claim that.
Even when Wally punched Zum, he was only APPROACHING light speed....
Originally posted by h1a8
the imp is a misnomer. By imp we mean use relativity to gain additional mass in which to punch with. How much mass depends on how close to the speed of light. Either zoom hit her with speeds under light (imp) or speeds above light ( no imp).
Ok. In which case, as we're using relativity, what about AT the speed of light, as we're taking WW's internal narration as gospel?
Because that really is all we're going on.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85I doubt zoom was moving at the speed of light as that would cause infinite force which would vaporize WW.
Ok. In which case, as we're using relativity, what about AT the speed of light, as we're taking WW's internal narration as gospel?Because that really is all we're going on.
Originally posted by Stoicmoving fast in space through warp speed (tyrant doesn't warp time) has little to do with reflexes. It could take 4 seconds to achieve light speed warp and one would still have worst reflexes than a human.
Are you saying that it would matter to Tyrant who can actually move faster by warping time and space?
