L
Stop thinking from outside the film, and consider what the character himself is hearing. In an explicitly sinister and creepy voice, he's ordering Anakin to execute someone. Insisting. That's suspicious.
Your desire to divorce the prequels from the originals notwithstanding, precedent for this has existed since 1983. Luke knew Sidious for all of ten minutes and nearly killed him and Vader at his urging, despite the fact that the Emperor was using the same "explicitly sinister and creepy voice." As Yoda alludes to in The Empire Strikes Back, the dark side relies on passions and is difficult to distinguish when one is in the throes of passion.
Compared to Luke's plight, Palpatine's rationalizations and Anakin's decision are infinitely more logical. Anakin and Dooku have a personal history of mutual dislike that culminated in the former losing a limb at the hands (lol) of the latter. But unlike Luke, there is no compassion at play here: Anakin has no reason to spare Dooku beyond Jedi doctrine. Worse, as Palpatine mentions, a Sith Lord is never truly unarmed.
It is hardly a stretch to see why someone whose judgment is clouded by the dark side commits a crime against a hated foe at the powerful urging of a trusted mentor.
L
Anakin just single handily defeated Count Dooku and you think some security droids that are literally too stupid to pull the trigger are a threat?
While Anakin is protecting or outright carrying two defenseless friends, one enfeebled by age and profession and the other one unconscious? Enemies that could potentially range from the pedestrian (battle droids and their upgrades) to outright dangerous (droidekas and MagnaGuards)?
Absolutely and I'm certain the carcasses of the Jedi Knights and Masters that littered the Geonosian arena would testify to the lethality of Separatist droids.
L
That should not matter, regardless. Once again, Palpatine gives Anakin a very rushed and urgent order to leave his unconscious friend to die without any attempt to help him or even wake him up. That's suspicious.
Not when the reasoning (impending battle droids) is sound and one is an expendable asset while the other is a VIP of unparalleled proportion.
L
What are you talking about? I didn't mention Dooku.Palpatine is informing Anakin about Sith legends and making unsubtle remarks about death prevention, power and the inability to get ahold of those things as a Jedi. That's suspicious.
Palpatine's knowledge of the Sith is not inherently suspicious nor does it make him a Sith Lord, particularly when Anakin lacks any other evidence of his true allegiance to corroborate it.
L
And the plan they decided on was to send an emotionally troubled young man who looks up to, and admires Palpatine to spy on him?That's moronic.
No, it was risky and desperate, which Mace openly acknowledges. But again, the reasoning was sound: Obi-Wan believed that Anakin's allegiance to the Jedi transcended his loyalty to Palpatine and Anakin was the only logical choice given his personal and professional closeness to Palpatine. Anakin had already been appointed his "personal representative" which would afford him much greater access to "the Chancellor's dealings", their friendship notwithstanding.
It would have been moronic had Anakin demonstrated that his loyalty to Palpatine outweighed his loyalty to the Jedi, turning risk into certainty. But he didn't. Worse for your argument yet, Anakin's loyalty to the Jedi was greater than his loyalty to Palpatine, hence Mace's subsequent visit to Palpatine's offices.
But his greater still was his devotion to Padme.
L
Glad you agree that their conversation was dripping with manipulative tones.
I was being glib, if that wasn't clear.
L
The real world's politicians are irrelevant in this movie's story.
The point flew over your head in your rush to separate real world politics (the basis by which we study this film's fictional politics) in order to save your argument.
What I am alluding to is real world motivations. The Jedi have no reason to doubt Palpatine's intentions because the film shows conclusively that he delayed the vote for the Military Creation Act to accommodate Padme and he vowed to continue negotiations instead of publicly advocating for militarization to crush the Separatists outright.
Hence my reference to real world politicians. We wouldn't assume that a real world politician had a militant agenda if his legislation geared towards cutting the defense budget, because then his actions work conversely to his aim.
The same applies here. Ostensibly, Palpatine has acted, privately and publicly, rhetorically and politically, as though he opposes the Military Creation Act. Thus they have no reason to suspect him.
L
...Holy shit.
The Clone Army that was created at around the same time as the Battle of Naboo, before the Separatist crisis, is important. It was ordered long before conflict was on the table. It was done on behalf of a Jedi Master who was then shortly afterward killed. You don't introduce a major mystery like that in to your film and then not explain it. This is shitty writing. It's like if Citizen Kane never brought up what 'Rosebud' was again. Or if The Usual Suspects never bothered to tell us what was up with this Keyser Soze mystery character.
There is no mystery. The film explains that Sifo-Dyas was a Jedi Master who initiated the creation of a clone army and lied about approval from the Senate and the Council. The Kaminoan administrator even explained that Sifo-Dyas intended the army to be for the Republic.
His basis for doing so is not integral to the film, when an explanation already exists. The Battle of Naboo marked aggression from heavily militarized organizations like the Trade Federation and demonstrated Republic incompetence and helplessness to counter it.
L
You know what was great about ANH? They reacted.
They... didn't. Luke stood there, without tears or any visible sign of surprise or anguish. Leia stood there, protested once, and by the time Han and Luke came to rescue her, she was back in full spirits. And no mention of Alderaan was made again, to my knowledge.
Stupid, stupid movie.
L
They did something about what was happening.
So did the Jedi. They used an army built for by a known member of their order in a desperate situation against a well armed and large army of corporate entities that wanted to destroy the Republic. And when the time came that they discovered the truth, they tried to kill the one responsible.
L
You know what the entire Jedi Order did about the fact that one of their own Jedi Master ordered the creation of an army of clones formed from the DNA of a bounty hunter who is likely involved in the attempted assassination of a major political figure who opposes armies? A Jedi Master who was then killed? Ten years before the Military Creation Act?Absolutely nothing. This is shitty writing.
Not true. Kenobi questioned the Kaminoans, who seemingly answered with full transparency. They ordered him to arrest Fett, who resisted, fled, and was later killed before questions could be answered. They made attempts clearly depicted within the film. The fact that they failed doesn't negate that.
L
To resolve a major mystery the movie introduced. Why else?
But there isn't. Even Sifo-Dyas's motivation is quickly explained away: He built the army for the Republic to defend itself against an increasingly hostile galaxy.
L
Nothing. Which is the problem. The movies gives us nothing else.
You can complain the film erred in not providing a full detailed biography of Sifo-Dyas and vividly recounting his motivations either through dialogue or a flashback sequence, but the consistency of the narrative endures: The Jedi tried to investigate further and all known leads were terminated before any possible revelation was gleaned.
L
I'm not. No one is. The movies never show us anything. Which is the problem.
You can complain the film erred in not depicting the actual investigation. Nevertheless, it was addressed.
L
This one is fairly obvious, but it requires the viewer to have an understanding of manipulative tone.
This speaks directly to my criticism of your entire argument: you possess certain knowledge as a member of the audience and expect the protagonists to share it. As I explained to you vividly with such resounding success that you haven't bothered to refute it, Palpatine's reputation is superb and all of his actions and speech reflect upon that.
Give me something other than "HE WAS SO OBVIOUSLY MANIPULATIVE!" as a basis for why they should have slapped handcuffs on Palpatine then and there. He covered his ass too well.
L
So to recap, it was their blatantly obvious tone of voice more than the words. And it was the fact the Jedi Masters of all people let it sail over their head. This is one is character deficiency.
Perhaps you've considered the notion that your obvious and awe-inspiring expertise in the realm of vocal pedagogy and deception detection isn't shared by the rubes of society? Or perhaps you've contemplated the idea that it might not be an exact science? Or, better yet, perhaps the Jedi simply had no reason to assume deception when the man speaking gives all demonstrable signs of honesty, transparency, and pacificity?