Originally posted by jaden101
YouTube videoWonder where the political statement or act of protest is in this.
Now that is pathetic, what a hard man he is robbing that poor kid. I hope someone recognises him and gives the coward a good kicking.
What these thugs are doing is wrong of course, but the society which made them thugs also has something to answer for.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, trying to excuse rampant vandalism and naked theft- which is all this is- with any form of political justification is absolute crap. And saying the police in London shoot anyone they want is absolutely pathetic.
No one is trying to justify it.... It's simple, we created an underclass and let it fester, the underclass are as human as you or I. They have no stake in society and as such no fear of society's sanctions. They hate the establishment and deaths in custody etc. do not help this. The underclass has always rioted and looted in this way around the world, this is no different to most frustration driven 'causeless' examples of social disobediance throughout history. If you really want police firing on twelve year old boys who have never had a male role model, good for you!
Originally posted by Anarchy UK
No one is trying to justify it.... It's simple, we created an underclass and let it fester, the underclass are as human as you or I.
Interesting, though, that this happened in the London rather than New York. I've always though of the UK has have very effective social services.
And yet the majority of this so-called underclass does not act in this way. And many of those being arrested actively travelled to take part in the riots.
Our society, like any other, has issues but none of this is the fault of anyone except the people themselves acting in a mindless and selfish manner, and you are fooling yourself if you think otherwise. Removing personal responsibility from the equation is idiocy. Far beyond any consideration of trying to improve society to stop this, the overall fact here is:
If these people were not complete arseholes, this would not be happening.
That's the bottom line, and that is why they get no sympathy from the overwhelming majority of the people. Every single one of these rioters is acting in an unacceptable way- actively evil- that cannot be excused.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
And yet the majority of this so-called underclass does not act in this way. And many of those being arrested actively travelled to take part in the riots.Our society, like any other, has issues but none of this is the fault of anyone except the people themselves acting in a mindless and selfish manner, and you are fooling yourself if you think otherwise. Removing personal responsibility from the equation is idiocy. Far beyond any consideration of trying to improve society to stop this, the overall fact here is:
[b]If these people were not complete arseholes, this would not be happening.
That's the bottom line, and that is why they get no sympathy from the overwhelming majority of the people. Every single one of these rioters is acting in an unacceptable way- actively evil- that cannot be excused. [/B]
It's not an act of EVIL, it's an act of ignorance and violence is the usual response of those who have no voice. Personal responsibility doesn't matter when you have no stake in society. The vast majority of people will not give sympathy, because it's easier for them to think of these acts as EVIL and turn a blind eye to the truth, we have created a world wide system based on inequality and that inequality has reached sufficient numbers within our own nation to threaten the guilded cages the vast majority live in. Let them eat cake!
No, trying to morally disassociate their actions is a mistake. What these people are doing is immoral, it is unjustified, it is selfish, it is harmful... it IS evil by any meaningful application of the word.
Your approach is a moral dead end that will never solve anything; luckily views like yours will never be seriously adopted.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, trying to morally disassociate their actions is a mistake. What these people are doing is immoral, it is unjustified, it is selfish, it is harmful... it IS evil by any meaningful application of the word.Your approach is a moral dead end that will never solve anything; luckily views like yours will never be seriously adopted.
This approach lacks practical use. If we simplify the cause to "people are evil" then we're saying nothing can be done to prevent later riots.
Why would that be true? There are many, many ways to try and work on why people get into an evil mindset like that that does not involve subscribing to the fairyland scenario that Anarchy UK is living in.
Step one- do something about such crappy parenting.
And I am all for whatever youth engagement programmes exist to engage with communities and give people opportunities (aside from anything else, I work in that sector).
But call a spade a spade. What these people are doing is evil and it should be labelled as such. The idea that they are not accountable for their actions or that it is explained by their social position is gibberish- inside their own social class they are a minority and in any case terms like 'underclass' are generally thrown around by hysterical middle class commentators.
But it is vital that we do not remove personal responsibility from the equation, and all of those people have that. No-one is born evil but for some it may well be too late.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
No, trying to morally disassociate their actions is a mistake. What these people are doing is immoral, it is unjustified, it is selfish, it is harmful... it IS evil by any meaningful application of the word.Your approach is a moral dead end that will never solve anything; luckily views like yours will never be seriously adopted.
We'll see, as the disturbances get greater and crime figures go up in this economic downturn- just like the early eighties, hardliners will be looking for ways to moderate this new set of social problems. Wait and see, people will realise that the have nots, need to have some hope and jobs will be created again. Hiding the jobless figures amongst the young by raising the school leaving age whilst at the same time cutting the economic lifeline of EMA for said adolescents is an obvious recipe for disaster. The Police in some ways were lucky this happened despite the hilarious incompetence they have exhibited in handling these situations, as it has garnered their endemically corrupt forces with a lifeline as they are shown as a necessary albeit joke of a thin blue line.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
Wait and see it is then. I think you are going to be disappointed.
Well the more traditional strikes etc amongst the very people society expects to save them- will be starting again in the Autumn. The Last riots I remember well; with the exception of those against the poll tax which was scrapped as a direct result of riots from the 'right thinking majority', lasted 5 years and eventually stopped only because the economic upturn in eighty five meant most people had work again.
As you say, we shall see, I suspect when the first youth is killed the riots will mutate.
Originally posted by Nephthys
The rioters are being especially stubborn because they're organising themselves via BlackBerry texts.So yeah, they must be really socially downtrodden to be able to afford ****in' BlackBerries. 🙄
On most South London estates as an example you can get almost any item on the cheap, it will be even easier now *ironic*. Generally socitiety's rules do not apply to places like the Pepys estate. What you don't see on social engineering programmes like Police, camera, action are all the walled estates in the U.K. that 'Dougy' or 'Numpty' will not go on, mainly because he is having to much fun giving three points to a middle class person in Reading town centre for speeding and it's a lot easier than walking into Nelson Mandella House.
Sure, but the idea that being able to afford a blackberry implies not being incredibly financially destitute is... odd.
Blackberries and other "smartphones" are extremely popular in India, for example, which has one of the highest concentrations of poor ****ers in one place in the world. Just google it and you'll see stories like people living in tin cans with no running water who spend most of the day surfing facebook on their smartphone.
Or you can look at many of the ghettoes in America, where kids don't have enough money for school supplies but they're walking around in $120 sneakers. Doesn't mean they're not poor and underprivileged, it just means that they'd rather save and spend money on shoes then they would a warm coat.