Tottenham Riots

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
Sure, but the idea that being able to afford a blackberry implies not being incredibly financially destitute is... odd.

Blackberries and other "smartphones" are extremely popular in India, for example, which has one of the highest concentrations of poor ****ers in one place in the world. Just google it and you'll see stories like people living in tin cans with no running water who spend most of the day surfing facebook on their smartphone.

Or you can look at many of the ghettoes in America, where kids don't have enough money for school supplies but they're walking around in $120 sneakers. Doesn't mean they're not poor and underprivileged, it just means that they'd rather save and spend money on shoes then they would a warm coat.

Well, now that you mention it...

Lol.

This is one of the biggest sense retardant things to happen in a long while. "I dont feel like im being fairly treated so im gonna rob stores and set peoples houses of fire" when did we regress back to the time where violence was the answer to problems?

The people are either morons who are in the chaos for the sake of chaos or those that try to justify their actions by saying its fault of schools, jobs and the government. Even if the majority are the idiots that intentionally failed in school. These people should try to succede in life instead of complaining like a child who isnt getting their way. But no, go and burn down the stores that could have hired you... Im sure that'll help that job thing out.

Im sure the grieving family and hundreds now out of work, without a home and/or injured and the millions of pounds in damages are all fine stepping stones for this idiotic goal/dumbasses who just wanna riot.

I say vote for shooting and gas and anything else painful we can throw around :3

Originally posted by BloodRain
when did we regress back to the time where violence was the answer to problems?

When did we progress past this point? The lower class has been rioting against the upper class since like... the dawn of time. And it's never stopped.

Riots have died down over the decades, with the main riot issues when they happened being about important matters. This isnt lower class and it isnt for any worthy reason, and not one that can be solved in this way. Its senseless to all but a few individuals.

All riots are senseless until the actually succeed. Then they're "revolutions".

Originally posted by BloodRain
Riots have died down over the decades, with the main riot issues when they happened being about important matters.

Riding my bike along a fairly main street, haven't been sleeping much mind, and we saw a lot of police and fire coming from one of the shops.

Talked to some people, it's so mixed up. Some people are genuinely protesting something, others are just in it for who knows what. Got rocks thrown at me for straying to close to a group of masked chavs!

England 2011 Chav Riots.
Burberry just wasn't enough.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Do you actually have some data to back this statement up?

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
All riots are senseless until the actually succeed. Then they're "revolutions".

Originally posted by BloodRain
Nothing that comes to mind. But as I recall at least in the UK each century as been more.. 'civil' with a smaller number of violent outbursts and riots. The 60's 70's were more than the 80's 90's, and little come to mind in 00. That was from my basic history lessons so may be wrong. But I doubt it is.
Not really. If there was a set reason for that everyone followed then it wouldn't be senseless. Most have no reason to riot here besides wanting to do so.

What are you talking about? In the eighties we had anti fascist riots, the miners strikes which were running battles, five years of rioting in places like Brixton, Tottenham, Toxeth, Broadwater Farm, Chapel Town etc. and the decade ended with the poll tax riots despite the recession being over.

Originally posted by Anarchy UK
What are you talking about? In the eighties we had anti fascist riots, the miners strikes which were running battles, five years of rioting in places like Brixton, Tottenham, Toxeth, Broadwater Farm, Chapel Town etc. and the decade ended with the poll tax riots despite the recession being over.

people are annoyed at having no voice, not one to represent their views and deal with their problems and due to a rough neighbourhood and bad upbringing this sort of thing happens. The problem is they are attacking the wrong people in the wrong way, wrecking business´s and hurting those who also live on your "own boat" is not the way to do it.

These pictures show the extent of the chaos..

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/08/london_riots.html

Originally posted by Bicnarok
[B]people are annoyed at having no voice, not one to represent their views and deal with their problems and due to a rough neighbourhood and bad upbringing this sort of thing happens. The problem is they are attacking the wrong people in the wrong way, wrecking business´s and hurting those who also live on your "own boat" is not the way to do it.

These pictures show the extent of the carnage

I've been in Lewisham this morning. Once we start calling a part of the population EVIL we are saying nothing can be done to prevent future riots. I see little value in that as a way forward. The deterrent of prison has always been the removal of an individuals liberty. That is all it should be as a punishment, rehabilitation in prison through education and skilling is the answer. The contract between society and many people has been broken. This needs to be put right to move forward. We spend a fortune on the Olympics, yet no jobs were created by it for the people of the inner cities.

Once you stop calling evil acts evil, your moral compass is broken and you will never tackle the issue.

You will note, of course, that I originally labelled their ACTS as evil, not necessarily the people themselves, though I would happily call many of them very much evil people and it is too late for many.

However, what I most certainly was not doing was calling a whole section of the population evil- as aside from anything else, this is a tiny minority, and not just of the population of the country as a whole, but a tiny minority of the section of society to which they belong. Many, many times their number face the exact same economic and social issues but they do NOT riot and selfishly steal and destroy. Their peers are ashamed of them. That is why we cannot blame this on social or political issues. It is these people's failure to be proper people that is the problem, and that is the fault of their parents, their upbringing... but also of themselves.

Now, we can try our best to sort out social and economic issues and that will undoubtedly bring benefits... but it won't stop arseholes being arseholes.

If this had a cause, people would have some sympathy. But mindless destruction of this type, sabotaging the communities to which they belong and bringing suffering to many, many innocents, purely for selfish gain? There is no word for that other than evil.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Once you stop calling evil acts evil, your moral compass is broken and you will never tackle the issue.

You will note, of course, that I originally labelled their ACTS as evil, not necessarily the people themselves, though I would happily call many of them very much evil people and it is too late for many.

However, what I most certainly was not doing was calling a whole section of the population evil- as aside from anything else, this is a tiny minority, and not just of the population of the country as a whole, but a tiny minority of the section of society to which they belong. Many, many times their number face the exact same economic and social issues but they do NOT riot and selfishly steal and destroy. Their peers are ashamed of them. That is why we cannot blame this on social or political issues. It is these people's failure to be proper people that is the problem, and that is the fault of their parents, their upbringing... but also of themselves.

Now, we can try our best to sort out social and economic issues and that will undoubtedly bring benefits... but it won't stop arseholes being arseholes.

If this had a cause, people would have some sympathy. But mindless destruction of this type, sabotaging the communities to which they belong and bringing suffering to many, many innocents? There is no word for that other than evil.

I'd rather use the word broken than evil both for the people and the acts they engaged in; Broken people saw a weakness in their restraint and were let loose. They were made broken by excessive legislation, police brutality, lack of opportunity, lack of male role models, educational misandry and intellectual underdevelopment, now they are broken and the only reason this doesnt happen every day is because they are afraid and locked in and feel like they cant 'get away with it'. We allowed them to be broken, we did this as a society. We need to repair the damage and to do that we need to provide futures and hope.

I think the whole situation is to complicated to explain it in one word like evil, especially as the word itself has a different meaning to different people. If you see evil as being that which goes against, or is outside of society, both in terms of values and actions then you are spot on.

The barbaric animal side of humans is a sad sight, but its there.

My point is that there is a reason for a reaction.

this interview shines a small light at what might be behind it.

YouTube video

You are obsessed with blaming everything other than the people themselves, aren't you? There are plenty of issues that need to be fixed but you really are discounting the biggest cause of all- the people themselves and their selfish attitudes. And as all of the issues you identify (much as I think you exaggerate many) affect many, many people but the vast majority do NOT act like this (indeed, they condemn it), what is different about the people that do? Simple- their own selfish mindset that means they think nothing of committing evil acts. That is down to their parents, their upbringing and, in the end, themselves.

Originally posted by Bicnarok
I think the whole situation is to complicated to explain it in one word like evil, especially as the word itself has a different meaning to different people. If you see evil as being that which goes against, or is outside of society, both in terms of values and actions then you are spot on.

The barbaric animal side of humans is a sad sight, but its there.

My point is that there is a reason for a reaction.

this interview shines a small light at what might be behind it.

YouTube video

Again, the 'situation' is not 'explained' by evil.

But the acts they are committing ARE evil, no two ways around it and pussyfooting around that is a waste of time and blinds you to the issues.

We absolutely must not discount the importance of personal responsibility and immoral acts. 'Society is to blame' has always been a mantra for disaster.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
That is down to their parents, their upbringing and, in the end, themselves.

I would even go further than that and say that it is more down to themselves and it is closer to an age-specific social phenomena than it is the parents. Some generations start silly trends. This is one of the worst generational trends I've seen.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
You are obsessed with blaming everything other than the people themselves, aren't you? There are plenty of issues that need to be fixed but you really are discounting the biggest cause of all- the people themselves and their selfish attitudes. And as all of the issues you identify (much as I think you exaggerate many) affect many, many people but the vast majority do NOT act like this (indeed, they condemn it), what is different about the people that do? Simple- their own selfish mindset that means they think nothing of committing evil acts. That is down to their parents, their upbringing and, in the end, themselves.

I will never believe that people are not mainly products of their environment and I do believe that what you see as a selfish attitude; might, instead be construed as the lack of a stake in society and as a result- a lack of shared values with the majority who are not disenfranchised and marginalised.

Many of them will just have one parent and that will be their mother.