You said it "His role in the Universe" or more correct, Multiverse.
It's simple. Darkseids Avatars were/are in the Universe/Multiverse and nothing happened. Now his true form is here and everything collapses. Isn't this a testimony of his status and power?
If a being just by being there destroys a whole multiverse, isn't this prove enough to see how important/powerful this being is?
Honestly. I can't believe what's so hard to understand about this.
First, you're incorrect on a few points... All of the times we've seen DS they haven't been Avatars and this isn't a some fact in evidence. That is your hope for what they have been. However, when DS lost to DD and Superman (asked for quarter) those weren't Avatars. So this whole notion that we've only seen avatars is hog wash.
Secondly, you read Marvel right... You understand that if something changes dramatically in the 616 Universe.. it can effect and has effected the multiverse as a whole. I could be something as simple as time travel messing up events in the past and thus having multiversal effects. A battle taking place in the 616 that is causing destuction and damage and thus causing multiversal effects.. since the 616 is the lynchpin to everything. Yet these events weren't caused by multiversal people, in fact, they were just caused by events just happening in the 616 and messing up its dynamic and thus messing up everything. THIS IS EXACTLY what happened in FC... DS wasn't waving his hand and displaying multiversal power or even abstract power. He was FALLING INTO A PLACE HE DIDN'T BELONG. Since much like in marvel, DC main universe is the key to all other universes... that had MULTIVERSAL effects... Make no mistake though.. DS did NOTHING multiversal on his own or with his power. He was falling to a place he didn't belong and that was causing a shit down of problems as a consequence. What on earth is so hard to understand about that.
He wasn't displaying Multiversal power.. shit.. it wasn't even his plan to die... shit.. he couldn't have ACCOMPLISHED ANY OF WHAT HE EVEN DID WITHOUT THE ALE.. Or did you forget that little power up that wasn't even DS own power. That ALE being broadcast CRACKED TIME AND SPACE which even allowed DS to fall when he got killed (also not part of his plan) He wouldn't have been able to win the war in heaven nor would time and space been cracked WITHOUT THE ALE. DS didn't do SHIT on is own.. DId he crack time and space with his power NO.. did he win the war in heaven without the ALE.. NO... Was it his plan to die and start to fall.. NO.... He didn't display one multiversal power nor any feat of that magnitude. Shit.. he wouldn't have been able to do a damn thing without a powreup. Yet you're running around saying he is multiversal and displayed multiversal power... LULZ... The multiverse was messed up and ONLY messed up because DS was falling into a place he didn't belong and since DC main universe in the lynchpin to everything else.. it started to have multiversal effects. Was is so difficult to understand about these basic concepts that were clearly laid out by Morrrison. I know you wanted to read it with your DS goggles on but they practicallly hit you over the head with all the facts you seem to have missed.
One step forward, two steps back. You admitted that his presence alone collapsed the Multiverse because he didn't belong there, so it had to be his avatars before that else if he had been there before there in his true form the multiverse would have collapsed long ago.
Now this ain't 616 Marvel-verse. It's DC, a lot of things work differen't there and some things don't like the IG.
You don't like the place Morrison gave him (the Ultimate Evil, the embodiment of Evil, Multiversal/Abstract), your problem not mine, if you would read FC without your hate-DS-googles you would understand this. Don't hate because he is greater then Thanos (Thanos is still a cool rip-off).
A simple fact remains.
Morrisons take on Darkseid > yours. Easy right?
Please list me ANY narration that says DS is an abstract and multiversal ANY narration that states this... Ooo yeah you have nothing....
You have no idea do you.. things ARE different in Marvel and DC in some areas... However, THE area we are talking about they are the same.. If you mess with DC Universe prime it has multiversal effects.. this is the same in the 616.. So knowing that.. you can't see how THIS WAS THE WAY DS effected the Multiversal... He never waved his hand and started collasping anything.. shit he couldn't even have done a thing without the ALE (a powerup) Should I use Thanos with the IG (another powerup) and use all the feats he did with it as if it was his own power. That is EXACTLY what you're trying to do here... Space and time wouldn't have cracked WITHOUT THE ALE.. that cracking ALLOWED DS to fall..not his power.. nothing to do with his power.. THE ALE DID THAT. He wouldn't have won the war in heaven WITHOUT THE ALE which again cracked Time and Space... I'm not the one wearing goggles since you missed all these facts that were layed out very clearly... i guess I could call Reed multiversal for having a child that never was and it having multiversal effects huh? Jesus... Please show me ANY feats in FC where DS did ANYTHING MULTIVERSAL... I'm still waiting... I guess since you want to use DS with a powerup which allowed him to accomplish all he did.. I'll use Thanos with the IG (powerup) and talk about how he wrecks DS with ease.
Zues' punches would do the same to Superman as they did to Hulk.
Superman beats Darkseid so Zues will do the same.
Marvel Lucifer in a neutral environment is pure evil too yet hates physical confrontations. Just because a being is an idea personified doesn't mean it amps them in the fisticuffs dept. Certain laws still apply.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Please list me ANY narration that says DS is an abstract and multiversal ANY narration that states this... Ooo yeah you have nothing....You have no idea do you.. things ARE different in Marvel and DC in some areas... However, THE area we are talking about they are the same.. If you mess with DC Universe prime it has multiversal effects.. this is the same in the 616.. So knowing that.. you can't see how THIS WAS THE WAY DS effected the Multiversal... He never waved his hand and started collasping anything.. shit he couldn't even have done a thing without the ALE (a powerup) Should I use Thanos with the IG (another powerup) and use all the feats he did with it as if it was his own power. That is EXACTLY what you're trying to do here... Space and time wouldn't have cracked WITHOUT THE ALE.. that cracking ALLOWED DS to fall..not his power.. nothing to do with his power.. THE ALE DID THAT. He wouldn't have won the war in heaven WITHOUT THE ALE which again cracked Time and Space... I'm not the one wearing goggles since you missed all these facts that were layed out very clearly... i guess I could call Reed multiversal for having a child that never was and it having multiversal effects huh? Jesus... Please show me ANY feats in FC where DS did ANYTHING MULTIVERSAL... I'm still waiting... I guess since you want to use DS with a powerup which allowed him to accomplish all he did.. I'll use Thanos with the IG (powerup) and talk about how he wrecks DS with ease.
Obviouly we disagree. As fas as I'm concerned I understood the story the same way as most other posters here (Jake, Galan etc) you however did read and understand it differently. That's ok just because a majority believes something, it doesn't have to be true.
But we can try to find the point where we agree.
So you won't mind if I ask you some questions? (as you failed to prove your point in my eyes and I mine in yours, right?)
Is Darkseid the embodiment of Evil in the DC Universe (with and without the ALE)?
Is Darkseids true form bigger then what we see when he is seen in our Universe? Do the Boomtubes decrease his size?
The scan I posted, do you agree that this is Darkseid in his true form and size falling toward the Multiverse?
You're correct in that FC was pretty deep and intricate and there are some things that can be interrupted differently. Obviously, I feel like the specific narration I'm referring to there isn't much ambiguity but whatever. BTW Jake nor Galan disagree with any of the narration that I put up, because there is no disputing it. We've had these discussions before and no they don't disagree with the points I'm making.
You didn't answer my questions so I'm not sure why I'm suppose to answer yours.. However, I will do so even though i don't think there is much of a point.
1. Yes, I feel like one could certainly get that "feel" from what FC and what he was trying to get at. The problem is, that is just one persons take on a character. We've seen inconsistencies all the time in comics... Thor needs Mjorlnir to fly... other times he doesn't... Galactus role in the universe has had many little tweaks and changes here and there. So even if that was his take on DS, you must admit, that much like every other character that was just HIS take. There is nothing written in stone about it that overrides a whole characters entire history of NOT being the embodiment of Evil.
2. Of course, this has been shown to be true before M took over. So yes I agree with this point.
3. No, that isn't DS true form... what you must remember Batman was that HE WAS DEAD... That was his form AFTER HE WAS KILLED. So no that isn't his "true form" or what he would look like when he was alive. Furthermore, do you think the entire multiverse was shown in that panel? I mean really? That was simply the case of reinforcing a theme that was shoved down our throats countless times which you continued to miss. The Multiverse was being flushed down the toilet because DS was falling to a place he didn't belong, in doing so, this caused a whole chain of events across the multiverse i.e. shadows being cast across the multiverse to illustrate this point. Nobody is claiming the multiverse wasn't effected.. the argument is that DS was effecting it with his power NOR was it his plan for any of this to happen AND he had a powerup which allowed that to even happen. Those are the points that were made crystal clear in FC, which you seemed to miss.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, since the two characters have and likely will never meet in a canon book all I have is my gut feeling.
😆 Well, your gut feeling is correct.
If Thor can say this, imagine what Superman will say if he met Hulk.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/8578918/FI_5_Oroboros_CPS_028.jpg.html
Originally posted by carver9You should edit your post to say spoilers prior to clicking on the link. That could mean the Hulk or it could mean the worthy hulk. I know which way you are taking this.
😆 Well, your gut feeling is correct.If Thor can say this, imagine what Superman will say if he met Hulk.
http://www.turboimagehost.com/p/8578918/FI_5_Oroboros_CPS_028.jpg.html
