Originally posted by Galan007
...Unless you think Juggy is THAT far below Thor from a physical standpoint, I'd say his strength/durability certainly took a hit from Thor's negation spell.
Okay, I was confused on what you were trying to say. I was trying to make a point that just taking away his forcefield should not have allowed Thor to damage him like he did.
Originally posted by Ptr_GrifinImo, Thor's negation vortex took away the bulk of Juggy's enchantment, but not 'all' of it. Like I said before: Juggy would have reverted back to a normal human if the 'entire' enchantment had been removed.
Okay, I was confused on what you were trying to say. I was trying to make a point that just taking away his forcefield should not have allowed Thor to damage him like he did.
His FF was completely negated, and his physical strength/durability took HUGE hits.
Originally posted by Galan007
Imo, Thor's negation vortex took away the bulk of Juggy's enchantment, but not 'all' of it. Like I said before: Juggy would have reverted back to a normal human if the 'entire' enchantment had been removed.His FF was completely negated, and his physical strength/durability took HUGE hits.
I can agree to what you are saying.
Originally posted by Galan007
His FF was completely negated, and his physical strength/durability took HUGE hits.
"Ya might'a taken away my invulnerability, but I'm still as strong as ever!"
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Thor/JuggernautvsThor6.jpg
"I am the living embodiment of raw power who is totally resistant to all forms of pain or injury! You can grow weak and be defeated! I can't!"
I'm sorry but that stance makes little sense to me. In particular because you think he took a huge hit in strength/durability.
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
I think your reasoning is getting ridiculous. WWH was able to push Cain down but not hurt him. People still grunt even when they are not hurt. Prof. Hulk didn't really hurt Cain either. He caught him off guard with a punch to the stomach. It was cause and effect, he collapsed his lungs and the air in him only had one way to go, out.
No, I think yours is.
Hulk could physically affect Cain:
Merged Hulk obviously rocked Cain:
The air got knocked out of his lungs? Where was that stated as the reason for what happened?
Originally posted by Ptr_Grifin
A weakened Juggernaut was able to stand up to Thor and Mjolnir recently in Thunberbolts. He was bleeding badly yes, but he was not staggering like he did in that Thor issue.
How much time are you going to waste desperately searching for contradictions?
We saw Thor strike Juggernaut twice throughout the issue all together. How does that contradict Thor -who's had his buttons pushed- nearly putting Cain down after unloading on him repeatedly? And are you really going to argue that Thunderbolts Juggernaut cannot be put down?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
No, I think yours is.Hulk could physically affect Cain:
Merged Hulk obviously rocked Cain:
The air got knocked out of his lungs? Where was that stated as the reason for what happened?
How much time are you going to waste desperately searching for contradictions?
We saw Thor strike Juggernaut twice throughout the issue all together. How does that contradict Thor -who's had his buttons pushed- nearly putting Cain down after unloading on him repeatedly? And are you really going to argue that Thunderbolts Juggernaut cannot be put down?
Physically affect him? Yes, but damage him no. WWH managed to only dent his helmet. What you see there is a reaction to being hit, not necessarily being hurt.
For the Prof. Hulk scan, Juggernaut wasn't prepared for the attack and thought Hulk was on his side. It is not hard for Hulk to knocked a 900 lb. man on the ground. The comment about the air escaping his lungs was to give reason to the "unffff" that Cain is making. He was KO'd by the psychic back lash wave.
Case in point, when bone claw Wolverine slashed at Hulk's neck. Hulk's instant reaction was to grab his neck to stop the bleeding and he made a noise such as Cain in the upper two scans. In actuality he was not hurt at all. It was just a reaction on his part. He looked down and back at Logan asking, "Are those bone?"
I'm using Thunderbolt's Cain to show that he was weaker, w/o a shield, being rocked by Thor's hits with Mjolnir and was NOT staggering like he was in the Thor issue while at full power. KING HYPERION was also trying to KILL Juggernaut, but wasn't able to KO him. In both instances he was bleeding badly, but was not one punch away from a KO. So a full powered Juggernaut would be able to stand up to so much more.
I'm going to agree with Galan. More than just his shield was taken away in that fight. Otherwise that moment is PIS. After Thor's little trick was over and Cain's shield returns he is also returned to fighting form, as if he was not one punch away from being put down. He then is able to retaliate and knock Thor down. Usually when you are about to be KO'd, your attacks are not strong or fast, especially when you are staggering about trying to gain a foot hold.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusJuggy obviously took a huge hit in durability, as he didn't have a FF protecting him.
I'm sorry but that stance makes little sense to me. In particular because you think he took a huge hit in strength/durability.
As for strength: I do not believe Juggy is THAT far below Thor from a physical standpoint- ie. if all of Juggy's strength was intact, I don't think Thor could have physically wrecked him with only a few punches... But like I said, I don't care either way. Fact is: Juggy's enchantment can, and has, been negated by a LOT less than major abstracts
