Revan + The Shans vs Skywalker Duo

Didn't he just trip it?

http://cdn.ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/swdehcp3.jpg

Impressive to be sure, but hardly godlike in my opinion.

The two front legs appear to be warped at weird angles. So I would say no. Furthermore, the AT-AT's head is bent downard out of line with Luke suggesting that he is pressing down on it.

Edit: I'm not saying that it's the most impressive feat ever. For example, Luke's destruction and rebuilding of Vader's fortress that you mentioned is far more impressive, but it still is a great feat.

Well from what I can see he telekinetically made it fall over. Probably by forcing the legs apart and pushing the head like you said. Again, impressive, but not that great. Satale's Hadoken was better imo.

'The walker falls'. As the second image shows, it was the fall that destroyed it, not Luke.

A quote about the duel in Dark Empire.

No.

Luke: "No! I made a mistake! I thought I had to save the galaxy alone. All by myself. But the way of the Jedi is not a solitary path."

Leia: "The holocron!! Luke, the holocron told me to “join with my brother!” "

Luke: "Yes. The Force binds us. Brings us together. Many people are fighting this war, together! Our ally is the Force! Through the strength of the Force, your shroud of evil has been lifted from my mind! "

<Lightsaber activating>

Emperor: "So be it. Through the power of the Force, you will die!"

<Sabers clashing>

Leia: "Be careful, Luke! The Force is strong... they’re both moving so fast, I can hardly see them... I feel waves of power... the Dark Side and the Light but I feel the Light... is winning!"

<sound of Luke landing a blow, cutting off Palpatines hand>

Emperor: "Argh~! My hand~! You've cut off my hand~!"

Luke: "Now, “Your Highness,” we will escort you to the Alliance base, where you will surrender the Galaxy to the New Republic!"

Does anyone know what this is from? Hardly that impressive. Being faster than the eye can see is old hat for most high-level Jedi. A neophyte Bane was completely invisible.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Well from what I can see he telekinetically made it fall over. Probably by forcing the legs apart and pushing the head like you said. Again, impressive, but not that great. Satale's Hadoken was better imo.

I'd agree. But like I said she just got a massive power increase as she was just absorbing a lightsaber. Corran Horn, for example, isn't even able to use basic telekinesis. But once he absorbs some energy he can prefrom incredible telekinetic feats.

'The walker falls'. As the second image shows, it was the fall that destroyed it, not Luke.

Somewhat true. As we see in ESB, AT-AT's are destroyed when they fall. So Luke was adding his force to the fall. Regardless, Luke was the one who made it fall which in turn destroyed it. So I would think it safe to say that Luke destroyed it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Does anyone know what this is from? Hardly that impressive. Being faster than the eye can see if hold that for most high-level Jedi. A neophyte Bane was completely invisible.

Audiobook I think. And how is that not impressive? I can't think of single duel where such speed is prolonged across the enitre duel. And IIRC, Bane was "invisible" for nothing more than a single move and he was building up power for it. Meanwhile, Luke and Palps are fighting at these incredible speeds the entire duel.

Originally posted by ares834
I'd agree. But like I said she just got a massive power increase as she was just absorbing a lightsaber. Corran Horn, for example, isn't even able to use basic telekinesis. But once he absorbs some energy he can prefrom incredible telekinetic feats.

Somewhat true. As we see in ESB, AT-AT's are destroyed when they fall. So Luke was adding his force to the fall. Regardless, Luke was the one who made it fall which in turn destroyed it. So I would think it safe to say that Luke destroyed it.

She was absorbing it? It didn't look like she was doing that to me, considering there was actual strain being put on the blade, enough to crack it, which I doubt would be happening if she was simply absorbing the energy as opposed to merely blocking it.

'Adding his force to the fall?' He made it fall, I don't see any evidence that he was accelerating it though. But if you want to say he destroyed it go ahead, but the manner in which he did so wasn't that he just fired DBZ-lasers at it and it disintergrated.

Originally posted by ares834
Audiobook I think. And how is that not impressive? I can't think of single duel where such speed is prolonged across the enitre duel. And IIRC, Bane was "invisible" for nothing more than a single move and he was building up power for it. Meanwhile, Luke and Palps are fighting at these incredible speeds the entire duel.

I suspected it would be that. 'Prolonged across the entire duel?' The fight was hardly that long. It was a few panels and then Palpatine got his hand cut off. Plus in later fights Bane does maintain his speed for extremely prolonged periods of time. Remember when Zam did the math for the feat of him dueling the rain?

Originally posted by Nephthys
She was absorbing it? It didn't look like she was doing that to me, considering there was actual strain being put on the blade, enough to crack it, which I doubt would be happening if she was simply absorbing the energy as opposed to merely blocking it.

😬

Craking a lightsaber blade through strain... That makes no sense at all. However, if she is absorbing the lightsaber balde it makes the cracking make some semblence of sense as she is absrobing the blade faster than it can pour out energy.

'Adding his force to the fall?' He made it fall, I don't see any evidence that he was accelerating it though.

Considering that AT-AT's don't become destroyed in ESB when they fall it would certainly seem to be neccesary.

But if you want to say he destroyed it go ahead, but the manner in which he did so wasn't that he just fired DBZ-lasers at it and it disintergrated.

As if that is what "destroys" implies... For example, if I knock a vase off a counter I destroyed it.

Originally posted by Nephthys
I suspected it would be that. 'Prolonged across the entire duel?' The fight was hardly that long. It was a few panels and then Palpatine got his hand cut off.

Hard to tell how long a duel is by counting panels. Anakin and Obi-Wan's duel, for example, is only a couple panels as well yet it is an incredibly lengthy battle.

Plus in later fights Bane does maintain his speed for extremely prolonged periods of time. Remember when Zam did the math for the feat of him dueling the rain?

Good thing we aren't debating Bane in this thread then.

Originally posted by ares834
😬

Craking a lightsaber blade through strain... That makes no sense at all. However, if she is absorbing the lightsaber balde it makes the cracking make some semblence of sense as she is absrobing the blade faster than it can pour out energy.

Considering that AT-AT's don't become destroyed in ESB when they fall it would certainly seem to be neccesary.

As if that is what "destroys" implies... For example, if I knock a vase of a counter I destroyed it.

1. And yet it happened. awegimp

Check it out yourself:

YouTube video

At 3.38 we can see parts of the lightsaber start to crack and flake off. This evidences a form of strain, not 'not enough energy'.

2. The head had already been damaged from Luke batting a blast back at it. You can see its exploding anyway. Plus in ESB the AT-AT's fell into snow. Plus, plus the one Luke destroys appears to be a smaller model.

3. Whatevr.

Originally posted by ares834
Hard to tell how long a duel is by counting panels. Anakin and Obi-Wan's duel, for example, is only a couple panels as well yet it is an incredibly lengthy battle.

Good thing we aren't debating Bane in this thread then.

Exactly. So we can't say that Luke and Palpatine were fighting like that for an especially lengthy period of time, as you were suggesting.

I was using it as an example of the not really impressiveness of the feat. Also there are numerous examples of average Jedi fighting faster than that in the mythos.

Originally posted by Nephthys
At 3.38 we can see parts of the lightsaber start to crack and flake off. This evidences a form of strain, not 'not enough energy'.

😬

Let's be reasonable here. Realisticly Lightsaber won't break through strain as they are beams of energy and even in the SWverse there is nothing to suggest the blade can be boken through force. Meanwhile, we have seen a lightsaber be absorbed.

2. The head had already been damaged from Luke batting a blast back at it. You can see its exploding anyway. Plus in ESB the AT-AT's fell into snow.

Fair enough.

Plus, plus the one Luke destroys appears to be a smaller model.

I've seen nothing to suggest there are diffrent models of AT-AT.

Exactly. So we can't say that Luke and Palpatine were fighting like that for an especially lengthy period of time, as you were suggesting.

I never said they were. Only that it was across the entire duel.

I was using it as an example of the not really impressiveness of the feat. Also there are numerous examples of average Jedi fighting faster than that in the mythos.

Where? Name one time an average Jedi was fighting as such speeds that it's hard to see them. Regardless, they are fighting at speeds far faster than Malgus and Satle were fighting at.

Originally posted by ares834
😬

Let's be reasonable here. Realisticly Lightsaber won't break through strain as they are beams of energy and even in the SWverse there is nothing to suggest the blade can be boken through force. Meanwhile, we have seen a lightsaber be absorbed.

We have also seen one be blocked. Also Star Wars is sci-fi. It doesn't need to make perfect sense. Nor do I think the people who made the trailer knew exactly how lightsabers work. However the clear implication is that there is some form of strain occuring. Also its entirely possible that the early form of the lightsaber functions in such a way as it can crack, particularly given that its from the Empire, who we don't know much about, technologically.

At the very least, you have nothing proving that she was absorbing the blade, when she could have just of easily have been blocking it.

Originally posted by ares834
I've seen nothing to suggest there are diffrent models of AT-AT.

It looks smaller.

estahuh

Originally posted by ares834
I never said they were. Only that it was across the entire duel.

Very well. So we can't say that they were using it for especially prolonged periods of time.

Originally posted by ares834
Where? Name one time an average Jedi was fighting as such speeds that it's hard to see them. Regardless, they are fighting at speeds far faster than Malgus and Satale were fighting at.

Hmmm, I'll need to track one down. I don' have any books with me atm.

I'll try to find some quotes. Wasn't TMP Obi-Wan stated to be faster than the eye could see? He's the gold standard of average Force-user imo.

They were also fighting at speeds faster than seen in the PT. I call this a clear case of things being slowed down for the audience.

Originally posted by Nephthys
[B]We have also seen one be blocked. Also Star Wars is sci-fi. It doesn't need to make perfect sense. Nor do I think the people who made the trailer knew exactly how lightsabers work. However the clear implication is that there is some form of strain occuring. Also its entirely possible that the early form of the lightsaber functions in such a way as it can crack, particularly given that its from the Empire, who we don't know much about, technologically.

There is absolutely no precedence for lightsaber being destroyed or cracked through strain and common sense would go against such a notion. However, lightsaber blades have been destroyed through the use of force absorb.

At the very least, you have nothing proving that she was absorbing the blade, when she could have just of easily have been blocking it.

Just look at it. It resembles force aborb almost perfectly. Right at her hands is a glowing ball of energy. And once againt there is aboslutely no precedence for destroying a lightsaber through strain while there is for absrobing it. So the logical choice is clearly having her absorb the lightsaber. Which is also reniforced when one realizes that a lightsaber breaking through strain makes no sense at all.

Very well. So we can't say that they were using it for especially prolonged periods of time.

We can't and I haven't.

I'll try to find some quotes. Wasn't TMP Obi-Wan stated to be faster than the eye could see? He's the gold standard of average Force-user imo.

I can't recal such a statement.

They were also fighting at speeds faster than seen in the PT. I call this a clear case of things being slowed down for the audience.

Any evidence for such a claim?

Originally posted by Zampanó
Dude, what the hell? You have five posts. At the time of this post you had four. Three of those were in a thread about a Star Wars MMORPG that hasn't come out yet. Literally one hundred percent of your online persona at the time of your first (unprovoked) personal attack had included words like "Korriban," "Zabrak," and "continuity." When you start throwing around proper nouns of the deep EU like "Naga Sadow" you forfeit any right to feign a superior social life.

By the way nice attempt at trying to attack me, i gotta give you props for that brah.

Originally posted by ares834
😂

However, my intended point is that this feat alone does not proves that he would dominate other powerful adversaries with the Force. Because we have examples of both average and elite Jedi/Sith performing amazing TK based feats. This is why I gave you examples of Yoda and Zayne.

Originally posted by ares834
Yes, and Yoda is likely the most powerful Jedi save Luke Skywalker himself... Plus according to some the cartoon itself is exagerated.

With proper concentration and focus, even an average Jedi can perform amazing feats with the Force. This is where the example of Zayne fits in.

If you understand the science and stunts behind handling of large objects with your physical and mental capabilities, you can do it. Consider the example of a Strongman trying to pull a heavy Truck. A lay person will be in awe upon looking at such impressive display of physical power. However, science reveals that you only need a certain amount of force to pull a heavy Truck. Something like 240 kg of force per attempt. I understand that science and logic do not appropriately apply to Star Wars mythos but it is not completely devoid of them, and my intended point should be very clear by now.

If you have made up your mind even as Jedi that you cannot do it. You simply cannot do it.

Originally posted by ares834
Which would have gravity far lower than that of a planet...

So do not judge a character on the basis of some feats. Look at the other aspects as well like personality, emotional stability, behaviour, experience, exposure, reactions in times of danger etc....

Consider Satele Shan; she is very calm and focused. She is also very experienced and is strong in the Force. Her skills with the lightsaber are not ELITEST but she makes up for this weakness with her other skills and talents while engaging her opponents. She attempts to use the surroundings to her advantage in combat situations, which changes the outcomes in her favor.

Originally posted by ares834
😂

Name me one other time a Jedi Master destoyed such a massive tank with a wave of his hand.

The difference between your narration and mine is that yours is portraying an exaggerated picture. Stop doing this and be fair in your judgements.

Also, Starkiller destroyed a very large Droid during events of TFU or TFU2. Some other powerful Jedi have also wiped out entire armies of Droids in single combat. Revan, Satele, and Yoda are among them.

Originally posted by ares834
Which is nothing compared to taking down an AT-AT which is a far more impressive feat.

You need to understand the difference between two feats.

The Tree is entirely composed of mass. This is why it is so heavy. A machine can have small components interconnected inside its main shell. It can be easier to cut through then a solid body which is entirely composed of mass.

I have explained to you above that what Luke actually did with the AT-AT. However, Satele did something else. She cut through a fresh and large Tree with the Force, and this caused the Tree to collapse. There is a difference.

Originally posted by ares834
She was absorbing his lightsaber numbnuts or at least attempting to.

This was my original statement:

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
tearing apart a very large and heavy boulder of rock in to pieces

This is the picture of this feat:

And your response is this:

Originally posted by ares834
As for the boulder, I would advise you to learn about Force Absorb. Satele just absorbed a massive amount of energy.

Now to explain to me that what does the Force Absorb has to do with the destroyed a large boulder with the Force?

Shall I assume that you are the numbnuts here? I really seems so.

Originally posted by ares834
She just used force absorb on a lightsaber... She can then expand all that energy in any way she wants. Do you not understand how force absorb works? Now proove to me she is capable of such a feat without the need to absorb

Originally posted by ares834 Malgus after this point in time was defeated by an unnotable Jedi Knight.

It is explained in detail in The Old Republic: The Third Lesson about the events after Malgus lost to Satele on Alderaan in single combat. Malgus was in a very bad shape and was rescued by his forces. However, he was angry at his loss and wanted revenge. He faced two more Jedi on the same planet and defeated both of them.

If you check his history, he has killed several Jedi including skilled Jedi Masters by himself. He was very strong.

Originally posted by ares834
As was Satele subdued by Malgus...

Originally posted by ares834
Regardless, Luke held his own against Palps and arguably beat him in a fair contest at the end.

Originally posted by shinkoryu
I don't see how understanding names of certain fictional planets or knowing certain characters equate to me not having a social life or a superior social life compared to that of someone who is so fanatically obsessed with a certain character.

By the way nice attempt at trying to attack me, i gotta give you props for that brah.

Were you previously banned and then rejoined with a different name? I smell something fishy here.

My laptop ate my reply. Screw this.

You cannot prove she absorbed the blade any more than I can prove that she telekinetically blocked it.

Furthermore you claim that it cracking makes no sense and then turn around and try to use it cracking as evidence for you own argument? Lol what!?

And finally the 'ball of energy' you mention is not present to me. I see a blue tint around her hands, but other than that all I see is what happens every other time a lightsaber gets blocked, goes white and fizzes a bit. And a blue tint is also present whenever she uses TK in the trailer, so if anythig it supports my interpretation.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Yoda once said: "Size matter not -- The only difference is your mind."

With proper concentration and focus, even an average Jedi can perform amazing feats with the Force. This is where the example of Zayne fits in.

...

Valid point. That was the science behind Zayne's accomplishment. However, he lifted 80 Miners using the Force. This would still have required significant effort and focus on his part. If we judge him on the basis of his combat performance, we would have never imagined that he could perform a feat of this level with the Force.

Ironically, I just saw this being discussed on TFN and according to JJM the miners only weighed around a pound on the comet.

If you have made up your mind even as Jedi that you cannot do it. You simply cannot do it.

True.

So do not judge a character on the basis of some feats. Look at the other aspects as well like personality, emotional stability, behaviour, experience, exposure, reactions in times of danger etc....

I do.

The machine got crippled by its own deflected fire. It was like a useless shell then.

Any evidence for it being a "useless shell"?

Luke then tripped that machine by putting pressure on its front two legs with the Force and twisted them. The machine collapsed and got destroyed after crashing. And Luke had to concentrate properly while he performed this feat. He remembered what Yoda taught him. It is all about MIND.

While the mind plays a large role there is clearly more to it than that. After all, certain characters have a stronger connection to the force than others and these characters are typically the ones with the grander force feats. This indicates that connection to the force plays a role as well.

The difference between your narration and mine is that yours is portraying an exaggerated picture. Stop doing this and be fair in your judgements.

Some other powerful Jedi have also wiped out entire armies of Droids in single combat. Revan, Satele, and Yoda are among them.

😕

The Tree is entirely composed of mass. This is why it is so heavy. A machine can have small components interconnected inside its main shell. It can be easier to cut through then a solid body which is entirely composed of mass.

True. But a tree's wood would be softer than durasteel armor which is strong enough to hold a Super Stardestroyer together when making turns... Clearly the durasteel should be far stronger. And as I mentioned earlier, Luke was forced to deform two of these legs.

I have explained to you above that what Luke actually did with the AT-AT. However, Satele did something else. She cut through a fresh and large Tree with the Force, and this caused the Tree to collapse. There is a difference.

You posted what you thought what Luke was doing, not necessarily what he did. Regardless, Satele crushed the tree not cut through it as evident by the fact that it's not a clean cut. Still impressive though.

Now to explain to me that what does the Force Absorb has to do with the destroyed a large boulder with the Force?

Notice how I said "Satele just absorbed a massive amount of energy."

What this indicates is she used force absorb prior to the boulder feat something you no doubt understood but decided to try and twist word choice. Sure I went overboard with the insult, but frankly it is quite obvious what is said.

When?

In the Decived novel, about halfway through. It takes place after the sacking of the Jedi Temple.

She did get in to trouble twice during her duel with Malgus. However, she came up with a suitable countermove each time. This is why I told that she is far from helpless even during vulnerable situations.

Except at the end. When she is attempting to absorb Malgus's lightsaber and is saved by the Republic Trooper. In fact, we see Malgus's saber reseal indicating that Satele would not have been succesful in her attempt.

No, Luke was assisted by BM of Leia and her unborn child. It augmented his strength and sapped the will of his opponent. No need to use fake statements to justify your position.

Nothing actually states this. And in the excerpt that Neph so kindly posted which is from Leia's perspective she makes no mention of her or Anakin assisting Luke in the duel.

Originally posted by Nephthys
My laptop ate my reply. Screw this.

Hate it when than happens.

You cannot prove she absorbed the blade any more than I can prove that she telekinetically blocked it.

I find this line of logic to be quite strange. With it one could say Luke transmuted the AT-AT's legs to rubber rather than using TK to bring it down because we can't prove it either way. However, using common sense and precedent (!) it quite obvious that he used TK.

This is the same way I view the lightsaber dilemma. There are absolutely no example in lore where a lightsaber's blade is destroyed through strain in fact it make no sense. However, we have seen a lightsaber blade be destroyed through force absorb.

Furthermore you claim that it cracking makes no sense and then turn around and try to use it cracking as evidence for you own argument? Lol what!?

And finally the 'ball of energy' you mention is not present to me. I see a blue tint around her hands, but other than that all I see is what happens every other time a lightsaber gets blocked, goes white and fizzes a bit. And a blue tint is also present whenever she uses TK in the trailer, so if anythig it supports my interpretation.

I'll take a page out of Legend's book and post some pictures here.

The ball of energy is most evident here:

And no, it does not resemble a lightsaber clash:

Also where is this blue energy at? Regardless, blue energy is typically used to simply indiacte force use.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Care to reveal your true identity? With only 6 posts, you are passing judgements on me?

Were you previously banned and then rejoined with a different name? I smell something fishy here.

Alright, gentlemen, let's be friendly here. No need to troll, shinkoryu, or your tenure here will be short.