http://www.newsarama.com/comics/chaos-war-from-the-field-4-101112.html
Nrama: Here’s a nicely specific question from zvelf on our forums: “So in Chaos War #3, was that Zeus fighting Galactus or Mikaboshi fighting Galactus or did Mikaboshi only enter Zeus' body when Hercules beat Zeus?”Van Lente: Greg?
Pak: I think that is Zeus fighting Galactus, but there is a point where Galactus says — I’m paraphrasing here — “Hey, you’re a little stronger than the average Skyfather.” So I think Zeus is definitely is being augmented by the Chaos King. The Chaos King, as we discover — spoiler alert! — is using Zeus as a Trojan horse. So some of that incredible power that Zeus is displaying comes from the Chaos King.
At the same time, Zeus is no pushover, and it’s been a while since we’ve seen Zeus unleash his true, mighty self, and it was a ton of fun giving him a chance to do that. So don’t take it all away from him, friend. I do love my Zeus. I’m going to start saying “Zounds” more often, as a matter of fact. Just in everyday conversation.
Nrama: There’s no real reason not to. That scene seemed important in illustrating the scale of the threat in showing Galactus getting taken down with relative ease.
Pak: Galactus is not down for the count. Don’t count out the big G yet.
Pak was such a idiotic writer I mean honestly he says
Pak: Galactus is not down for the count. Don’t count out the big G yet.
And yet Galactus basically did nothing through the rest of the act. He was down, atleast from a Galactus reader like myself, for the rest of the act. Galactus was there only to validate the Chaos King as a cosmic threat, one would think that Eternity would be enough but nooo....
Originally posted by zopzopNeither side was winning the TP battle. Both were KOed after Odin charged at Galactus. Galactus chose to reform but
Spoiler:.
as we can see from the preview scans and solicits, Odin chose to enter the Destroyer Armor instead of reform and continue fighting Galactus.
Both sustained heavy damage after Odin rushed him and G prepped neither shielding nor defenses. Galactus reformed (how else does Galactus fight? Aside from a pure energy being vs. thanos w/IG, his physical form is the default form he uses to fight...so it's pretty much a given that, if the fight were to continue, he would reform) and Odin pretty much was depicted as having not even the strength to put solid breath behind his words while speaking to Thor and prior to passing out. Odin could "choose" to enter the destoryer armor but no matter how you sugar coat it, the fact remains that Odin by himself is not enough to hang with a Galactus that doesn't fight back physically. That's literally and factually what happened on panel. He had to resort to the armor for round 3. Round 1 was the TP stalemate. Round 2 was the physical attack on Galactus who stood still, and Galactus was the last man standing. Round 3 is Odin in the destroyer with an enlarged mjolnir. I don't think you realize it's so much that Odin "chose" to enter the destroyer vs. Odin being forced to enter the destroyer given how the battle was going. Odin was the aggressor in every round. He failed at gaining the upper hand at TP, so he broke off the tactic that he himself initiated, and connected on a phyiscal kill shot. That failed. Now he goes in the destroyer with mjolnir. He's the agressor every time and every time it doesn't work...it's not like Odin has the luxury of picking his tactics...he's trying to figure out how to overpower G and so far everything he's tried isn't working.
Galactus, if he really is more powerful than Odin, is just barely so. He's not leagues above him. If Odin charged Galactus like that again, then Zeus or Vishnu or some other Skyfather would be right there fresh and ready for battle and annihilate the hurt Galactus.Again, this is a forum battle, not a comic. Fraction uncharacteristically portrayed Galactus as standing still to tank his opponent's best hit. In this battle he WILL NOT stand still and let Odin execute his kill shot like Fraction wrote. He WILL NOT stand still and prepare no defenses (like he used prep to tank PR Beyonder's blast...like he used shielding to protect himself from the avengers when near starvation...like he used shielding to protect himself against Tenebrous...like he DID NOT use shielding when Thanos caught him off guard) and he WILL NOT refrain for using any offensive capabilities. I mean, you and the other odin fan are portraying this fight to be in the following stipulations:
1. That Galactus stands still
2. That Galactus prepares no defense
3. That Galactus will not retailiate
Those are the conditions you and he are imagining when you respond to me that "oh if Odin could do this by himself, than the others will kill him." NO. Those aren't the stipulations that the OP stated. He is not standing still. He is not without shielding. There is certainly no stip that says Galactus can't fight back.
It's an intrinsic part of him? Then how did Reed threaten to use it against him, why was he begging Toady/Morg to give it to him?
Originally posted by Newjak
I'm not gonna sit here and try and argue that Odin won that exchange, but that wasn't the big point of the fight.Everyone knew going in Galactus > Odin. What the fight was gonna show was how big of a margin it was. From the fight itself it wasn't a vast one.
Odin was able to cause Galactus to strain in a TP battle, and was able to stun him and hurt him.
That's very telling.
Like I said everyone knew Galactus > Odin but this fight showed that it wasn't that large and in fact seemed pretty even. Just that Galactus has more in the tank. Even then the fight doesn't look to be over.
The fight is only half the battle, both in a literal sense and what we can take away as where they are relative to each other:
The only things we can take away from it with confidence are that Odin is powerful enough physically to temporarily KO an unshielded Galactus. Also, his TP is great enough to contend with G's TP. We also know that G has the durability to survive that attack-without shielding-and reforms himself after a brief period. We know that Odin survives the attack but sustains significant damage from it, enough to warrant use of the Destroyer. That's it.
We do NOT know, how they would fair if roles were reversed. Say, for example, that Odin stood perfectly still, with no shields, and G bum rushed him. If Galactus survived the headbutt unscathed and Odin fell to earth unconscious, would you then say that it's a clear indicator of where the 2 are?
**You wouldn't, because you would argue that Odin did nothing but stand there and accept the attack. Much like I am arguing now.**
Originally posted by Utrigita
I personally think it's rather telling, in the beginning all the Abstracts stand together facing the Galactus engine, later (as also mentioned) no other Abstracts is seen. However to be fair there was a mention of other beings emerging behind the Galactus Engine so it's likely that the Celestials broke off the engagement to focus on the other beings and Surfers comment would then relate to no other Abstracts being able to fight the Galactus engine at that point of time. It can be viewed in both ways imo. However what can't really be discussed is how Galactus is perceived in regards to the Celestials (at least by that writer) so it's a very muddy image atm.
Originally posted by Cogito
Don't get me wrong, I think Galactus was the last man standing. I just wouldn't be surprised if that assumption was wrong.
From a pure discussion stand-point...we could reason that there were other entities fighting on behalf of the MU against the Galactus Engine...but to be frank I think it's clear that DnA intended to convey the sense that the cancerverse was so overwhelming, that Galactus was literally the last big gun left for the MU at the Fault. Right now we have Medusa stating that the abstracts were in retreat, and that other entities larger and > Galactus engine were waiting to come through. Basically conveying a sense of imminent threat and being totally overmatched. The next issue SS states that G is the only one left. Now I would say that we have to take his statement as fact since DnA already took the pains to qualify SS as the reader's de facto conduit for understanding what's going on, since SS basically belittled Quasar's cosmic awareness by explaining to Nova what was really happening re: the battle between the Celestials, the Proemial Gods, and Galactus vs. the Galactus Engine in issue #2.
Also, though I have no way to prove it, I met DnA at the NY Comic-Con last year (which took place after issue 5 but before issue 6) and ask them to spoil some of issue 6 pertaining to Galactus. All they told me at the time was that Galactus is the last one left to fight the Galactus Engine..so there you go, writers' intent.
Originally posted by Utrigita
Pak was such a idiotic writer I mean honestly he saysAnd yet Galactus basically did nothing through the rest of the act. He was down, atleast from a Galactus reader like myself, for the rest of the act. Galactus was there only to validate the Chaos King as a cosmic threat, one would think that Eternity would be enough but nooo....
He didn't do anything physically (seems to be a trend against opponents now *cough cough*) for the rest of the story but his scientific knowledge and tech allowed for the chaos king to be imprisoned in Hera's isolated pocket dimension.
He was basically draining himself to feed the portal so that he could sustain it long enough to evacuate the earth (his original plan) against a being who had already absorbed "98% of the multiverse." In other words he was using his power to open the portal and keep it open vs. chaos king's power. Of course, he received help from hercules, who was punching chaos king in the teeth, but the feat is still there. Not that anyone besides you or I and a few others would care for it.
Originally posted by Power Cosmic II[/b]
Both sustained heavy damage after Odin rushed him and G prepped neither shielding nor defenses. Galactus reformed (how else does Galactus fight? Aside from a pure energy being vs. thanos w/IG, his physical form is the default form he uses to fight...so it's pretty much a given that, if the fight were to continue, he would reform) and Odin pretty much was depicted as having not even the strength to put solid breath behind his words while speaking to Thor and prior to passing out. Odin could "choose" to enter the destoryer armor but no matter how you sugar coat it, the fact remains that Odin by himself is not enough to hang with a Galactus that doesn't fight back physically. That's literally and factually what happened on panel. He had to resort to the armor for round 3. Round 1 was the TP stalemate. Round 2 was the physical attack on Galactus who stood still, and Galactus was the last man standing. Round 3 is Odin in the destroyer with an enlarged mjolnir. I don't think you realize it's so much that Odin "chose" to enter the destroyer vs. Odin being [b]forced to enter the destroyer given how the battle was going. Odin was the aggressor in every round. He failed at gaining the upper hand at TP, so he broke off the tactic that he himself initiated, and connected on a phyiscal kill shot. That failed. Now he goes in the destroyer with mjolnir. He's the agressor every time and every time it doesn't work...it's not like Odin has the luxury of picking his tactics...he's trying to figure out how to overpower G and so far everything he's tried isn't working.
Well we know for sure neither side was getting anywhere in that fight till Odin
Spoiler:If Galactus was so much more powerful than Odin, he'd have done that before the fight started. But apparently Odin doesn't think much of Galactus or his power.
broke off and upped the ante by entering the Destroyer.
Again, this is a forum battle, not a comic. Fraction uncharacteristically portrayed Galactus as standing still to tank his opponent's best hit. In this battle he WILL NOT stand still and let Odin execute his kill shot like Fraction wrote. He WILL NOT stand still and prepare no defenses (like he used prep to tank PR Beyonder's blast...like he used shielding to protect himself from the avengers when near starvation...like he used shielding to protect himself against Tenebrous...like he DID NOT use shielding when Thanos caught him off guard) and he WILL NOT refrain for using any offensive capabilities. I mean, you and the other odin fan are portraying this fight to be in the following stipulations:1. That Galactus stands still
2. That Galactus prepares no defense
3. That Galactus will not retailiateThose are the conditions you and he are imagining when you respond to me that "oh if Odin could do this by himself, than the others will kill him." NO. Those aren't the stipulations that the OP stated. He is not standing still. He is not without shielding. There is certainly no stip that says Galactus can't fight back.
Exactly and Odin would have amped off the life forces of the Asgardians AND the land of Asgard AND called his Septre or Gungnir or the Odinsword, then confronted Galactus (like he did vs a real threat : the Celestials). But that didn't happen either and you don't hear Odin fans crying about it.
The intrinsic aspect was brought up in 2003. The whole Tyrant situation happened in the mid 90's. Reed threatened him in 1968. It's a retcon. You want to complain that Marvel doesn't reprint those issues to change the story? Be my guest. I'd love to see it too. But his inability/unwillingness to call it to himself has been retconned and superseded by the fact AND feat that it is an intrinsic aspect of him and he can recall it to his person at will. You would have a case if 616 Galactus and the 616 UN were shown one more time together and someone else was threatening to use it against him and he couldn't do anything..but seeing as we have no other instance since the abraxas arc, and the abraxas arc is the last, canon, Marvel-editorial-mandated-fact on the matter, the issue is moot.
Wasn't that incident itself technically erased, when Reed (not Galactus by the way) reset the universe/multiverse? So what's the point?
Originally posted by TheLordofMurderTrue however they were no name celestrial fighting and we all know Celestrial as a race are different power levels. We seen what the fourth host could do and we have seen what the reeves coudl do to a bunch of no name celestrials
👆The implication was pretty clear to me as well; Galactus was beyond all the other cosmics who battled the Galactus Engine...
Originally posted by Power Cosmic IIIt was stated that each God head wanted top protect there own realm It is called plot is would suck If all the godhead stopped Chaos king before he can gain power the same for Odin and his brother If Zeus and Odin double team the serpent before he gain pwoer it would suck it is just plot. Heck we have seen Seth rock the muitlverse against Odin and Seth is not even the skyfathe of the egyptains Ra is and each godhead from what has seen from Odin and Zeus is the must powerful of the group. It is no shame to go down to a group of skyfathers you just have blinders on b/c of Galactus and further Galactus using the UN as a weapon is far differnt then Odin using the destoryer armor. The UN is dangerours to the whole universe which is why Galactus doesn't go whipping it out at each fight. HAsa Galactus every used the UN in combat b/c Odin has used the destroyer 3 times in battle.
ACTUALLY, Odin is Galactus' level more or less in Telepathy. Let's just set aside for a moment that Odin was getting exasperated at maintaining the TP battle (what does that imply? Let the readers come to their own conclusions) and admitted that Galactus has "forced his hand" and compelled him to "finish the job" that Thor started. Literally. So whereas Thor rammed into Galactus, Odin does the same. And it works. Temporarily. On a Galactus that stands there and does nothing. And Odin knocks himself out.Now tell me, does Odin animate the destroyer because he's switching tactics (again) because his previous tactic didn't work (again), or is he animating the destroyer because he's incapable of carrying on the fight on his own two feet? either answer is quite telling. So no...I don't see how you can say that, aside from the TP, Odin came out looking good. And...you don't get sick of a stalemate unless you feel like you can't (at the bare minimum) maintain the stalemate. The ONLY instance where we saw Odin get tired of the stalemate was the TP battle. He didn't/couldn't maintain the TP stalemate any longer and put in his force into a kill shot. THAT is where Odin gets sick of the stalemate, and not a second later. His kill shot backfired on him miserably and he runs to the destroyer next issue. Odin lost the first round. That's an incontrovertible fact. There was no stalemate (aside from the TP), it was Odin giving his all and then being forced to animate the destroyer in the upcoming issue as a ramification of the results of giving it his all. Don't act like he tried TP, it didn't work, he tried physical, it didn't work, and then now he tries the destroyer. NO. He tried TP, he had to break the stalemate. He tried physical, and it back fired on him and affected him worse than it affected Galactus. There was no stalemate after the TP. NONE.
It's an intrinsic aspect of him, which he keeps aboard his ship and which he is able to recall to his person at will. Whether he literally created it, split it from his own essence, constituted it from his energies, or just simply shat it out one day after dinner changes absolutely nothing from the fact that you're presenting the destroyer as some available option in this contest since it's in Odin's store of weapons. Since you propose this then you must also whole heartily agree that the Ultimate Nullifier is a personal weapon of Galactus' and is a viable option. I'm glad we agree.
Dude you are incredibly inept at using logic, it's scary. Galactus handed red hulk his butt, who in turn handled thor and hulk with ease. I mean these a<b<c comparisons are pointless. Yes since Galactus will be engaged with 11 sky fathers in TP battle which will allow Zeus to rush in and knock galactuzz in the head wow I'm so excited for you that you dreamt of this whole scenario and knew we'd all understand that that is exactly how it would play out in a forum battle!!1!!111
And I'm quite sympathetic for you that you like to point out that chaos king absorbed other pantheons to power up but fail to indicate the countless gods he absorbed into himself. Yep...preeeettty sure it was more than 12 in the entire story. But don't take my word for it. Go on and think that 12 sky fathers have equivalent power to Chaos King. That's why the council of godheads was hiding in a corner while Chaos King became the equal of Eternity. Yup.
Originally posted by DarkOdin
True however they were no name celestrial fighting and we all know Celestrial as a race are different power levels. We seen what the fourth host could do and we have seen what the reeves coudl do to a bunch of no name celestrials
We also know that Kubik, a being capable of warping a universe into the size of a ball, was in his own words powerless against a no name Celestial. However I don't quite see where you are going with the no name Celestials, are we to assume that the Celestials facing a threat that could destroy their universe isn't going to send a fairly powerful force? It would seem strange if that was the case, also recall what the Celestials sent to watch the anomoly, those was the most powerful of the hosts according to the watchers yet they were all no name...
Also iirc atleast one of the Celestials can be taken and looked at as Arishem and he is by no means a push over (unless your Tiamut).
Originally posted by DarkOdin
It was stated that each God head wanted top protect there own realm It is called plot is would suck If all the godhead stopped Chaos king before he can gain power the same for Odin and his brother If Zeus and Odin double team the serpent before he gain pwoer it would suck it is just plot.
Are you using the scene were Herc was carrying Zeus who he just pawned?And were Zeus stated to Herc that he would need every Godheads to crush the Chaos King and his Hordes?Well that was all a ruse so Herc would reveal the throne room of the council elite to the Chaos King.And even if all of the Council Elite members did decide to fight the Chaos King, they would fall like cosmic leaves the way the Gods of Zenn-la did.And the Gods of Zenn-la were fighting CK in his Amatsu-Mikaboshi form that time.As for Odin telling Zeus not to interfere, this can be taken as remembering the oath in the Council Elite not to attack each others Pantheons.And the Serpent is still part of the Asgardian Pantheon after all.So this can be taken as an internal dispute among Asgardians.That's why Zeus must not interfere.
Originally posted by DarkOdin
Heck we have seen Seth rock the muitlverse against Odin and Seth is not even the skyfathe of the egyptains Ra is and each godhead from what has seen from Odin and Zeus is the must powerful of the group.
Atum was the original heliopolitan skyfather until he decided to go to the sun and pass the skyfather role to Osiris.And Seth overthrew Osiris and his family therefore installing himself as leader of the Egyptian Gods.
Originally posted by DarkOdin
It is no shame to go down to a group of skyfathers you just have blinders on b/c of Galactus and further Galactus using the UN as a weapon is far differnt then Odin using the destoryer armor.The UN is dangerours to the whole universe which is why Galactus doesn't go whipping it out at each fight. HAsa Galactus every used the UN in combat b/c Odin has used the destroyer 3 times in battle.
A group of skyfathers ganging up on Galactus is a possible win in favor of the skyfathers as long as big G doesn't use the Ultimate Nullifier.As evidence in the Abraxas saga, the UN was able to pawn a Multiversal Destroyer(Abraxas) by restarting the entire Marvel Universe.Jailing Abraxas inside Eternity.
Originally posted by UtrigitaIn the same thought pattern IF the Celestial really thought it was that big much of a threat wouldn't all of them come to fight not just a handfull. We have no way i guessing there power level it ranges from tiamat to the no names that got owned by the reeds
We also know that Kubik, a being capable of warping a universe into the size of a ball, was in his own words powerless against a no name Celestial. However I don't quite see where you are going with the no name Celestials, are we to assume that the Celestials facing a threat that could destroy their universe isn't going to send a fairly powerful force? It would seem strange if that was the case, also recall what the Celestials sent to watch the anomoly, those was the most powerful of the hosts according to the watchers yet they were all no name...Also iirc atleast one of the Celestials can be taken and looked at as Arishem and he is by no means a push over (unless your Tiamut).
Originally posted by IgnizWas it not Ra sitting at the head for the egyptians during the IG saga????? Not Osiris???? ' i could be wrong been awhile to remember that 1 scene.Also before Chaos king absorbed the alein pantheons Zeus and him went toe 2 toe and both times Chaos King gained the upper hand when so was distracted trying to protect Ares and his son if i remember right. but unless Galactus starts the battle with the UN inhand I doubt he will be able to get since Odin alone can stall him with TP then you have 11 other Skyfathers beating down" on Galactus but either way we will seen next issue how well Galactus fairs against mini Odin destroyer. Which would be a great base since the Destroyer is the combined powers of 3 skyfathers and IF Galactus has trouble with the Odin destroyer in proves the fourth host celestials as being above Galactus ...ok not proves but good evidence to support it,
Are you using the scene were Herc was carrying Zeus who he just pawned?And were Zeus stated to Herc that he would need every Godheads to crush the Chaos King and his Hordes?Well that was all a ruse so Herc would reveal the throne room of the council elite to the Chaos King.And even if all of the Council Elite members did decide to fight the Chaos King, they would fall like cosmic leaves the way the Gods of Zenn-la did.And the Gods of Zenn-la were fighting CK in his Amatsu-Mikaboshi form that time.As for Odin telling Zeus not to interfere, this can be taken as remembering the oath in the Council Elite not to attack each others Pantheons.And the Serpent is still part of the Asgardian Pantheon after all.So this can be taken as an internal dispute among Asgardians.That's why Zeus must not interfere.Atum was the original heliopolitan skyfather until he decided to go to the sun and pass the skyfather role to Osiris.And Seth overthrew Osiris and his family therefore installing himself as leader of the Egyptian Gods.
A group of skyfathers ganging up on Galactus is a possible win in favor of the skyfathers as long as big G doesn't use the Ultimate Nullifier.As evidence in the Abraxas saga, the UN was able to pawn a Multiversal Destroyer(Abraxas) by restarting the entire Marvel Universe.Jailing Abraxas inside Eternity.