Sauron vs Snape

Originally posted by EvilAngel
It's no more supported than the powers of Sauron which you deny over and over again for no better reason than what the reversed argument against Snape is.

Maybe you should actually read my post. 'I stopped reading after' sums up your arguments in this thread thus far quite excellently.

Incorrect.

Because you've already bailed out once, you're likely not adding anything new because you can't using the films and Sauron's 20 seconds of screen time and frankly, I just don't have it in me to read a word-wall right now.

Edit: I skimmed and you're basically saying you need the books for Sauron to win, yes? Books don't fly in the MVF.

Originally posted by Robtard
Incorrect.

Because you've already bailed out once, you're likely not adding anything new because you can't using the films and Sauron's 20 seconds of screen time and frankly, I just don't have it in me to read a word-wall right now.

Denial doesn't make it incorrect. Your inability to concede to logic and reasoning is what is 'Incorrect'.

I'm summarizing the thread essentially. If you read it you would realize your attacking me for it is futile. But then that would be assuming you understand it. Using forum feats thus far, that's an ability you haven't displayed. So maybe that wouldn't be true in your particular case

Originally posted by EvilAngel
Denial doesn't make it incorrect. Your inability to concede to logic and reasoning is what is 'Incorrect'.

I'm summarizing the thread essentially. If you read it you would realize your attacking me for it is futile. But then that would be assuming you understand it. Using forum feats thus far, that's an ability you haven't displayed. So maybe that wouldn't be true in your particular case

See my edit.

If you stand by it then you've just proven me correct utterly about your inability to understand.

Originally posted by Robtard
Please do a moment of research before you rant.

Here's one of many LoTR sites: http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Rings_of_Power#The_Power_Of_The_Rings

Please, let's not use a wiki as a source and instead use the actual books.

In the books, Sauron holds the rings ergo they don't get there power from them. Yes, it was the rings that corrupted them but only because the rings were corrupted by Sauron.

Originally posted by ares834
Please, let's not use a wiki as a source and instead use the actual books.

In the books, Sauron holds the rings ergo they don't get there power from them. Yes, it was the rings that corrupted them but only because the rings were corrupted by Sauron.

Again, please, do a moment of research.

In the books it's vague, Tolkien both mentions "the Nine the Nazgul keep" and mentions that Sauron gathered the Nine to himself. Which could just be the Nazgul themselves or metaphorical.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
If you stand by it then you've just proven me correct utterly about your inability to understand.

That doesn't make any sense, but you've not made much. So oh well.

Originally posted by Robtard
That doesn't make any sense, but you've not made much. So oh well.

This made me lol. I love it when someone else demonstrates their character for you.

Originally posted by Robtard
Again, please, do a moment of research.

In the books it's vague, Tolkien both mentions "the Nine the Nazgul keep" and mentions that Sauron gathered the Nine to himself. Which could just be the Nazgul themselves or metaphorical.

There is but one mention of the Nine the Nazgul keep while numerous mentions of Sauron holding the rings. Furthermore, it is also said that Sauron holds the Seven (or at least those that remain) yet he did not control the dwarves who wore those rings meaning he must have actually had them in his possession. Next, Frodo doesn't see the rings at Weathertop which would have certainly been an important point. And finally, it explains how Sauron controls the Nazgul without the need of his Ring.

Also I think this quote makes it quite clear, it's from one of Tolkien's letters: “... Sauron, who still through their nine rings (which he held) had primary control. ...”

Edit: Also the Nazgul's clothing was visible while those who wear the One Ring disappear entirely.

Originally posted by ares834
There is but one mention of the Nine the Nazgul keep while numerous mentions of Sauron holding the rings. Furthermore, it is also said that Sauron holds the Seven (or at least those that remain) yet he did not control the dwarves who wore those rings meaning he must have actually had them in his possession. Next, Frodo doesn't see the rings at Weathertop which would have certainly been an important point. And finally, it explains how Sauron controls the Nazgul without the need of his Ring.

Also I think this quote makes it quite clear, it's from one of Tolkien's letters: “... Sauron, who still through their nine rings (which he held) had primary control. ...”

That mention is clear 'they keep the nine', while the Sauron taking the rings is vague at best.

After they were thoroughly corrupted, turned invisible and passed into the realm of the undead, Sauron no longer needed (his) the One Ring to control them. They became powerful men/sorcerers through the nine before Sauron made his move.

To your edit: That's actually the one good point you made.

Originally posted by EvilAngel
This made me lol. I love it when someone else demonstrates their character for you.

Your butt-hurt is too much now, it's just an MVF thread; it's okay.

So are books admissable as evidence now? I don't think so.

Theres no way to know where the Nazgul get their power in the movies, or where the Witch King did. Therefore I doubt we'll get much from this argument.

Originally posted by Robtard
That mention is clear 'they keep the nine', while the Sauron taking the rings is vague at best.

Selective much? As I pointed out there are far more refrences to Sauron holding the rings with only one refrence for the Nazgul keeping them. In fact, Tolkien actually points out that Saruon holds them in that one quote I provided.

After they were thoroughly corrupted, turned invisible and passed into the realm of the undead, Sauron no longer needed (his) the One Ring to control them.

Perhaps. However, it was through the One Ring that Sauron managed to dominate their rings which in turn dominated them. It is possible that this domination lingers even if Sauron does not actualy control the rings at the time.

Originally posted by Nephthys
So are books admissable as evidence now? I don't think so.

Theres no way to know where the Nazgul get their power in the movies, or where the Witch King did. Therefore I doubt we'll get much from this argument.

Originally posted by ares834
If we are so intent on "durhur movie only" then I would point out that Saruman, Gandalf, and Sauron are simply powerful wizards with no hint of difference aside from power between them.

Therefore, Snape Sauron being a wizard of a higher power should be able to cast the spells his inferiors are capable of.

Originally posted by ares834

And where was it stated that Sauron was just a powerful wizard? Cos Forging the One Ring and swinging a mace doesn't = wizard.

Ares, the rules for this forum are fairly clear. Movie feats only. I don't make the rules.

Now what exactly 'movie feats only' means is up for debate.

Sauron wasn't a wizard in the movies though.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Ares, the rules for this forum are fairly clear. Movie feats only. I don't make the rules.

Now what exactly 'movie feats only' means is up for debate.

Sauron wasn't a wizard in the movies though.

No in the movies he was essentially a glorified mountain troll. Which would make this thread both a spite and pointless.

If there's anyone who thinks that Sauron can win from just those 20 seconds he was shown they need to have their brain (or lack of) examined. Which is the very point of bringing other things into it.

I can't put it better than I already did in the 'word-wall'

Originally posted by EvilAngel
No in the movies he was essentially a glorified mountain troll. Which would make this thread both a spite and pointless.

If there's anyone who thinks that Sauron can win from just those 20 seconds he was shown they need to have their brain (or lack of) examined. Which is the very point of bringing other things into it.

I can't put it better than I already did in the 'word-wall'

This is why some characters despite how powerful they're supposed to be don't work well in the MVF.

Listen, things got heated in here, it happens. No need for anyone to take it personal.

Originally posted by Robtard
And where was it stated that Sauron was just a powerful wizard? Cos Forging the One Ring and swinging a mace doesn't = wizard.

From dictionary.com: Wizard: 1. a person who practices magic; magician or sorcerer.

And Sauron shows tons of magic in the films, living as a spirit after death=powerful magic, giving people visions=magic, controling minds=magic, causing people to faint=magic, creating a magic ring=magic, using telekinetic powers far greater than any other wizard is shown to use in the films=powerful magic, etc...

Originally posted by ares834
From dictionary.com: Wizard: 1. a person who practices magic; magician or sorcerer.

And Sauron shows tons of magic in the films, living as a spirit after death=powerful magic, giving people visions=magic, controling minds=magic, causing people to faint=magic, creating a magic ring=magic, using telekinetic powers far greater than any other wizard is shown to use in the films=powerful magic, etc...

Counter to that.