Feats vs Logic (colossus vs juggs)

This latest debate of Colossus vs Juggernaut had me thinking since it is now confirmed that Colossus has the full power of Cytorrak.

Feats: Classic Juggs has tons of feats Current Colossus just has 1( his battle with Kuurth)

winner: Classic Juggs

Logic: They both are tapping into the same power source and have the same amount of Cytorrak's juice flowing through them. So assuming they are both fully powered:

Cain is a human with standard military training.

Peter is a Class 100 mutant with Danger room and wolverine training

winner: Current Colossus

so in these vs boards who wins?

Any other characters in similar positions?

Classic Juggernaut >Current Colossus Fact

unless they want to make it the forcefield that makes juggernaut invunerable that would make sence cause colossus dont know how to use it yet.

Also colossus doesnt seem as strong as classic juggernaut maybe he doesnt know how to fully use juggernauts powers

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Classic Juggernaut >Current Colossus Fact

unless they want to make it the forcefield that makes juggernaut invunerable that would make sence cause colossus dont know how to use it yet.

Also colossus doesnt seem as strong as classic juggernaut maybe he doesnt know how to fully use juggernauts powers

(for the record i am not disagreeing with you)

If they are both fully powered by the same dude why is he greater when Colossus started at a higher base?

so feats trumps logic..

Originally posted by nwg202
(for the record i am not disagreeing with you)

If they are both fully powered by the same dude why is he greater when Colossus started at a higher base?

so feats trumps logic..

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
Colossus doesnt know his full power yet

wuuuut? thats ridiculous. cain was like, pow! your the juggernaut complete with super strength and force field thingy which he didnt have to learn how to use.

colossus should be the same. and starting from a higher base means shit for the likes of juggernaut. its like saying adding 100 to one trillion. wont matter at all.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
wuuuut? thats ridiculous. cain was like, pow! your the juggernaut complete with super strength and force field thingy which he didnt have to learn how to use.

colossus should be the same. and starting from a higher base means shit for the likes of juggernaut. its like saying adding 100 to one trillion. wont matter at all.

well if being class 100 doesn't matter his danger room training should.

so what's your stance? feats or logic? or they stalemate and battle for all eternity? or does Colossus superior training help him out

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
wuuuut? thats ridiculous. cain was like, pow! your the juggernaut complete with super strength and force field thingy which he didnt have to learn how to use.

colossus should be the same. and starting from a higher base means shit for the likes of juggernaut. its like saying adding 100 to one trillion. wont matter at all.

Well, Classic Jugs didn't start out know how to use his powers. Remember, when he first got the powers of Juggernaut...the mountain fell on him. It took him years to free himself with all the weight of the rocks that was buried over him. He was basically stuck.

Juggernaut years after this was put into similar situations and escaped with ease. I think it takes time...just like it took time for Black Tom to get use to the power Jugs lended him.

Originally posted by nwg202
well if being class 100 doesn't matter his danger room training should.

so what's your stance? feats or logic? or they stalemate and battle for all eternity? or does Colossus superior training help him out

feats are there to help you with your logic but feats are not the be all end all.

feats + logic + common sense = the best opinions, which sadly, many posters here lack...

i'd take cain's training over pete's danger room training any day. why? cain was a human soldier who was trained to survive. one mistep and he's dead. on the otherhand, pete can trun to steel and most likely wont get hurt due to his armored form. which makes his training less impressive.

as for this matchup, by logic, since their taping into the same power source with the exact same power set. in theory, it should be an eternal stalemate.

but since i haven't been following the x-men much, i really dont' know what kind of an up grade colossus got. so meh..

Originally posted by carver9
Well, Classic Jugs didn't start out know how to use his powers. Remember, when he first got the powers of Juggernaut...the mountain fell on him. It took him years to free himself with all the weight of the rocks that was buried over him. He was basically stuck.

Juggernaut years after this was put into similar situations and escaped with ease. I think it takes time...just like it took time for Black Tom to get use to the power Jugs lended him.

naw, it has more to do with back stories than anything else. without that kind of back story, people would go "so...where were you all these years?"

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
feats are there to help you with your logic but feats are not the be all end all.

feats + logic + common sense = the best opinions, which sadly, many posters here lack...

i'd take cain's training over pete's danger room training any day. why? cain was a human soldier who was trained to survive. one mistep and he's dead. on the otherhand, pete can trun to steel and most likely wont get hurt due to his armored form. which makes his training less impressive.

as for this matchup, by logic, since their taping into the same power source with the exact same power set. in theory, it should be an eternal stalemate.

but since i haven't been following the x-men much, i really dont' know what kind of an up grade colossus got. so meh..

ok cool... so u think soldiers are better trained than super heroes. Yah of course we are assuming they have equal power

Originally posted by nwg202
ok cool... so u think soldiers are better trained than super heroes. Yah of course we are assuming they have equal power

most of the time, yes. lets take say captain america and doc samson. who is the stronger and the more durable of the two? who is the more skilled fighter?

less power = more training = better skills
more power = less required training = less skills

of course there are exceptions like wonder woman, she may be strong and durable, but she lived in a place where her strength and durability meant little since a she could easily be killed, hence her skills.

I personally place the training the X-men have received above the training of a 'Nam era G.I., but that's just me.

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
I personally place the training the X-men have received above the training of a 'Nam era G.I., but that's just me.

depends on the x-man. like i said, colossus was taught how to fight but since extremely durable...why dodge when you can just walk through things or absorb it..which wolverine has proven time and time again despite him being rated as one of the top fighters in marvel.

When ordained the avatar of Cytorrak many things come into consideration to gauge how much power they are receiving.
-Timing.
-knowledge.
-experience.
The fact that Colossus starts with higher stats than Cain Marco doesn't mean much for Juggernaut's abilities are way above Colossus'.

Colossonauts feats should be his own. And to assume any connection with the prior holder should not hold much ground.

You have to also factor in that Cain Marco was a douchbag/bully who had an intense hatred for his step brother Charles Xavier.
Piotr Rasputin although a brick and brawler is a peaceful and emotional man who likes to write poetry and cry about his deadish sister.
I don't think he has the balls to use this gift to it's fullest potential unless he completely lets go of his humanity, and potentially that will bring us a new Colossus.

Originally posted by Mr.Mxyzptlk
I personally place the training the X-men have received above the training of a 'Nam era G.I., but that's just me.

for the record, i totally hate this colossus upgrade. they should have just given him a second mutation thus making him stronger putting him at the top of the 100 toner food chain but not at the levels of the stupidly strong like hulk.

No PIS classic Juggs is invulnerabe and doesnt feel pain. Colossus had his skull crack and felt everything.

Originally posted by SamZED
No PIS classic Juggs is invulnerabe and doesnt feel pain. Colossus had his skull crack and felt everything.

I think they were basically telling you how strong Jugs amped with the hammer was. Even though Kuurth was capable of damage Colossus doesn't mean that people like Thor or Supes could. Kuurth was a natural beast and we do not know how much power cytorrak took from him.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
for the record, i totally hate this colossus upgrade. they should have just given him a second mutation thus making him stronger putting him at the top of the 100 toner food chain but not at the levels of the stupidly strong like hulk.

Originally posted by carver9
I think they were basically telling you how strong Jugs amped with the hammer was. Even though Kuurth was capable of damage Colossus doesn't mean that people like Thor or Supes could. Kuurth was a natural beast and we do not know how much power cytorrak took from him.

+1. I think they wanted us to fully understand how powerful kuurth was/is. Colossus said he had never felt pain like that. And he's been hit by almost everyone. So for kuurth to hurt him in his cytorrak form means kuurth was very very strong.

And Colossus still literally walk right through him at 600mph. This version of Colossus should be a f*?n beast and with no bfr truly unstoppable. But I'm sure they will job him. Unfortunately.