Battle of Helms Deep vs. Harry Potter Deathly Hallows Part 2

Originally posted by Korto Vos
I don't see how continuous volleys of hundreds of arrows flying from all directions wouldn't be effective.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
"ordinary" Men of Gondor? You have to be kidding me- these soldiers are hardy men who have a lifetime of battle in border wars against Mordor. If they are that perturbed by the Nazgul, the wizards will be even more demoralized.

"Silencio!"

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Arrows/bolts/missiles/debris- all deadly aerial attacks that are fired from range?

And repeating my previous argument, the Rohirrim cavalry, with Gandalf on Shadowfax, should have most of its forces intact before colliding into the bulk of the HP Army.

and 2.) Remember the Firestorm spell that Dumbledore did? Or Fiendfyre that freakin' Crabbe pulled? That x1000 + horses = AK-47's! horse meat for everyone!

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Sure, but close quarter combat highly disfavors the wizards/witches. They aren't trained, unlike LOTR troops, in engaging in hand to hand battle and constantly looking for enemies coming in from any direction. A single sword strike, from anywhere, would kill a wizard/witch.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
* Except, y'know, if they were "just really big targets," it's surprising how nobody for Gondor or Rohan are able to bring them down during Pelennor Fields. The Nazgul's disabling shrieks, and speed of the Fell Beasts, will guarantee their survival.

* The Huorn will just add to the chaos. The arrow-fall may cause retreats into the so-called trees, where the Huorn will ambush the opposition. And considering how very, very few wizards master Fiendfyre, such a spell would be as devastating for the HP Army.

* The Uruk-Hai are fodder- but by the time all 10,000 of them are dead, a majority of the wizards/witches will be dead as well.

2.) The arrow 'incineration upon the shield charm' will cause laughing and mirth, and maybe a couple of the jackasses hanging the back will be picked up by the trees. Perhaps one of them will be retarded, 17 year old Vincent Crabbe. Perhaps he'll remember that wood burns. And that even he knows Fiendfyre. And perhaps the hundreds of other evil witches and wizards will remember that they possess powers that none of their enemies here can counter in the slightest. Like Incendio.

3.) By the time all 10,000 Uruk-Hai are dead, the closest Uruk corpse will still be like 50 feet from Voldemort's feet. Most of the rest will be buried beneath a pile of rubble and more corpses.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
No, they are just f*cking themselves by doing that; if they find themselves surrounded by big guys with swords, they may take some guys with them, but they are definitely dying.

Very, very few wizards will fall in this. If any. Some of the may get bruised ribs from laughing s hard at their own overwhelming success.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Remember that huge shield the Hogwarts teachers put over the school that incinerated wizards at the slightest touch, and how it took a barrage of magical spells to bring it down? Well I'm seeing something akin to that, except the wooden arrow shafts and metal heads are going the way of the DH II pawns---vaporized.

I don't see what this would accomplish, unless you're suggesting the entire HP army will stand still and not press forward, remaining with the confines of a giant convenient bubble.

The Nine descend upon the wizards, getting their invisible vocal chords primed for a scream, aaannnddd--

"Silencio!"

I can make up my own BS as well:

There are Nine of them, engaging in a continued shrieking chorus that constantly demoralizes/immobilizes the wizards/witches. Thereby preventing them from uttering a single spell. AKA they all die from arrows while clutching their ears.

1.) See my first response in this post. The shield charm x1000 is gonna be sweeeeeeet.

Okay, well while the wizards/witches decide to kumbaya in their shield, the LOTR forces can just party inside the Hornburg, seeing how the HP Army is going to stand still. Drinks on Theoden.

and 2.) Remember the Firestorm spell that Dumbledore did? Or Fiendfyre that freakin' Crabbe pulled? That x1000 + horses = AK-47's! horse meat for everyone!

Oh yeah, let us have the wizards/witches KAMIKAZE doing that!

I said "get close somehow", I said nothing about hand-to-hand combat. There won't be any. A barrage of lethal/debilitating spells will sweep away anyone that comes close. This is, of course, assuming that anyone within the fort survives the first round of Fiendfyre and collapsing canyon walls on their heads.

Which, of course, requires the HP Army to press forward, leaving behind their gigantic shield.

Assuming they don't, once the first 1000 Uruk-Hai die, LOTR forces will just push everyone back into the Hornburg and into the Glittering Caves. Good luck having anything happening then!

And please, considering how tough Fiendfyre is to control, it would be bloody madness for them to start unleashing that. They would kill themselves.

1.) I was never impressed by the speed of the Winged Beasts, just their size. Silencio, Immobulus, Avada Kedavra.

Oh yeah, considering how none of the 16,000+ Gondorian or Rohirrim soldiers are able to bring them down, they must be really slow.

2.) The arrow 'incineration upon the shield charm' will cause laughing and mirth, and maybe a couple of the jackasses hanging the back will be picked up by the trees. Perhaps one of them will be retarded, 17 year old Vincent Crabbe. Perhaps he'll remember that wood burns. And that even he knows Fiendfyre. And perhaps the hundreds of other evil witches and wizards will remember that they possess powers that none of their enemies here can counter in the slightest. Like Incendio.

Sure, the Huorn die, but they'll take some with them.

3.) By the time all 10,000 Uruk-Hai are dead, the closest Uruk corpse will still be like 50 feet from Voldemort's feet. Most of the rest will be buried beneath a pile of rubble and more corpses.

Except, y'know... all those magical spells that no LotR being has any defense against what so ever.

Very, very few wizards will fall in this. If any. Some of the may get bruised ribs from laughing s hard at their own overwhelming success.

That's probably what they wish would be happening once they see everyone around them dead with a dozen arrows sticking out of them 😛

Voldemort casts a gigantic shield around his forces like the one McGonigal did. There is nothing the ME army has that can break through this.

Next he raises his wand and brings the walls of Helms Deep crashing down. The ME is now disoriented and vulnerable. He also quickly sends killing spells after the Nazgul before their dread-cry has too much effect. He does all this from a safe distance from arrows.

While this is happening the THOUSAND wizards constantly shower the ME army with spells constantly, from so far away they won't be able to fire back. Impedimenta, AK, Stupedy, Incendio, etc. They do volleys in rotations, ranks stepping outside of the shield to fire then stepping back in to safety, and repeating. This goes on non-stop. The giants and werewolves go forward to engage the Uruks to delay them even more.

Hit Gandalf with Crucio. Fire Confundus charms into the crowds of infantry so they start fighting each other. Imperius curse on the Rohirrim generals. Petrificus Totalus on the Nazgul steeds while they're flying, that's the end of them. Petrify any other important people too. Incedio the Huorn.

There's so much the wizards can do from a safe distance, they don't have to fight close quarters. And there's so many of them some wizards can be healers. Some can be scouts and snipers. A few can Apparate behind their lines, shoot chaos and fire into their rear, then Disapparate to safety. When the leaders of Middle Earth start dying off indiscriminately the rest of the army will rout.

There is no way the Wizards can lose.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
I don't see what this would accomplish, unless you're suggesting the entire HP army will stand still and not press forward, remaining with the confines of a giant convenient bubble.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
I can make up my own BS as well:

There are Nine of them, engaging in a continued shrieking chorus that constantly demoralizes/immobilizes the wizards/witches. Thereby preventing them from uttering a single spell. AKA they all die from arrows while clutching their ears.

Actually, especially Immobulus. 12 year old Hermione froze an entire room full of flying pixies. I think a few Death Eaters can hit the Nazgul. Or Silencio, whatever. If the Nazgul's scream was like an instant paralysis attack, or instant death, etc., I'd be inclined towards them. But all we ever see is extreme discomfort and pain, but unfortunately nothing crippling enough to make me believe that not a single Death Eater or wizard will point their wand and easily silence/immobilize the Nazgul or kill their Beast. And frankly, they are still the greatest threat here.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Okay, well while the wizards/witches decide to kumbaya in their shield, the LOTR forces can just party inside the Hornburg, seeing how the HP Army is going to stand still. Drinks on Theoden.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Oh yeah, let us have the wizards/witches KAMIKAZE doing that!

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Which, of course, requires the HP Army to press forward, leaving behind their gigantic shield.

Assuming they don't, once the first 1000 Uruk-Hai die, LOTR forces will just push everyone back into the Hornburg and into the Glittering Caves. Good luck having anything happening then!

And please, considering how tough Fiendfyre is to control, it would be bloody madness for them to start unleashing that. They would kill themselves.

...

How will they be pushing them back? How are they going to get through the wizards' shields and attacks? Wait a minute, gimme a sec...

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Oh yeah, considering how none of the 16,000+ Gondorian or Rohirrim soldiers are able to bring them down, they must be really slow.

Sure, the Huorn die, but they'll take some with them.

That's probably what they wish would be happening once they see everyone around them dead with a dozen arrows sticking out of them 😛

The wizards don't need to advance. Those shields are going up right away. Anyone that gets close gets blasted by about a dozen spells at once. The Nazgul (and perhaps the entire cavalry) can be immobilized very, very quickly. A 12 year old girl cast one spell that took out a whole room of flying magical creatures. An entire army of evil wizards, including the Death Eaters and Voldemort will have no trouble doing the same to everyone here, including the Nazgul. The Nazgul provide the greatest threat with their screams, but frankly, their screech isn't impressive enough to instantly paralyze everyone here (without targeting their own side as well, obviously). They'll be silenced, immobilized, and they and their Beasts will be vaporized when they hit the shield. The arrows, infantry, and cavalry will face the same shield and die. Or they'll hang back. The Huorn to the rear may take some dozens out, but enough wands turning around and firing Incendio or Immobulus (as it was used on the Whomping Willow by Lupin) will do them in. Then there's always Firestorm. And if anyone's feeling a little suicidal and daring, there's Fiendfyre. Should anything or anyone somehow, magically (see what I did there?) get through, every single wizard can apparate. And those that can do the solid-smoke thing, will continue to bombard everything else with spells. And to top it off, Reducto and Bombarda will absolutely level the fortress and the canyon, burying anyone left in it. Some wizards may die, but it'll be through someone's zealous use of Fiendfyre, which frankly would be hella overkill against the trees, but would be very useful when fired forward at the fortress by Voldemort or one of the upper Death Eaters.

That's it. There's no more to tell. I don't want you to start calling me biased and the new RJ, because I'm not. The LotR movies are far superior to Harry Potter, as are the characters. But I just can not conceive of a way that 1,000 freaking dark wizards are going to fall to swords and arrows, I'm sorry. I know you hate Potter, but this match is horribly in favour of them.

Well said.

Lucien
The LotR movies are far superior to Harry Potter, as are the characters.

Except for this.

Most of the HP movies suck. The first few do at least. And the 6th. I personally hated every single one I saw, but if we're going objectively I can only say for certain that half objectively suck ass.

The LotR movies define the term epic. Sam carrying Frodo up Mount Doom had me in tears.

Its not even fair comparing the two. Its a bareknuckle champion vs a cripple.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Key word being convenient. And yeah, they'll do that when the outcome equals quick and easy victory.

Hmm, how are you envisioning this battle playing out?

I imagine the Elven archers and Helms Deep forces in battle stations (bows and arrows ready) on the Deeping Wall and Hornburg. The Uruk-Hai on the ground guarding the keep- pikes in the front lines, bowmen/crossbowmen in the next lines, and then bulk infantry with the suicide bombers, berserkers, and tanks scattered among them. The Nine Nazgul on top of the Fell Beasts above making vulture rounds above. Gandalf and the Rohirrim in the side valley ready to charge down.

And in front of the Uruk-Hai lie the HP Army, ready to lay siege upon the Deep. Behind them are the line of trees that are of course the Huorn.

I imagine a countdown of ten seconds where nobody makes a move, and then FIGHT!

Uruk-Hai charge forward, Uruks fire arrows/bolts, Elves/Helms Deep defenders fire arrows, Nazgul swoop down shrieking, Huorn advance, and Gandalf & Rohirrim charge down the valley.

So you're saying at the start of battle, the HP Army will all unanimously construct a giant shield. I just find this starting LOTR surge too quick and deadly for the wizards/witches to spend time devising a magical barrier. Rather, I see an offensive push, which is why I am arguing my line of thought.

Now, if we were arguing LOTR siege, and the HP Army DEFENDING Helms Deep, then yes, I agree HP will have a comprehensive victory.

And once again, without making anything up--this is a simple spell that exists--Silencio. Or perhaps, Immobulus. x1000.

Actually, especially Immobulus. 12 year old Hermione froze an entire room full of flying pixies. I think a few Death Eaters can hit the Nazgul. Or Silencio, whatever. If the Nazgul's scream was like an instant paralysis attack, or instant death, etc., I'd be inclined towards them. But all we ever see is extreme discomfort and pain, but unfortunately nothing crippling enough to make me believe that not a single Death Eater or wizard will point their wand and easily silence/immobilize the Nazgul or kill their Beast. And frankly, they are still the greatest threat here.

Yes, even if they aren't instant paralyzing screams, the extreme discomfort and pain is enough to make the hardy men of Gondor all cower in fear and clutch their ears, unable to fight. Because the Nine had opposition within Minas Tirith, a massive cityscraper, and the Pelennor, they were spread out and their effectiveness was limited.

In the confines of the Deeping Coomb, the Nine Nazgul can act in deadly unison, with the demoralizing shrieks starting right as the battle begins. This is my rationale as to why they won't be struck by an Immobulus or Silencio any time soon- as soon as they come within range, the shrieks will prevent spellcasting (as the wizards/witches will be holding their ears or be completely consumed in fear).

I mean, I'm just going by the fact that thousands of Rohirrim and Gondorian soldiers had the chance to shoot down the Fell Beast, but absolutely none of them were able to. My logic? As soon as they probably had the opportunity to aim and shoot once the beasts swooped down, the Nazgul shrieks caused them to lower their weapons and more or less act disabled.

Let Theoden buy the first round, they'll never have time to pour it while the canyon walls are crumbling around them and burying everybody within the fortress. 1000 wizards, all firing Bombarda or Reducto td the fortress and the canyon. There won't be a Shire, Pippin a defense.

Well, the wizards/witches have to mow down the Uruks and Rohirrim Cavalry before the Deeping Wall can be breached.

And 1000 is an arbitrary convenient number I made up to comprise the total number of the HP Army, including those suits of armor, giants, acromantula, and house-elves. The Death Eaters themselves, with any Imperiused wizards, probably number less than 130. The Hogwarts staff and students, Hogsmeade residents, Dumbledore's Army, and Order of the Phoenix probably number at what...300 tops? So in actuality, there are probably like 500 wizards/witches MAX at play here.

They don't need to die, they only need to apparate. And alright, given Voldemort's propensity for sacrificing pawns, the outer flanks full of lesser wizards can be killed. That'll take out the trees, the cavalry, and any lucky fellow that happened to get close enough. Happy?

Hmm...I want to know your battle logistics before I can comment on this.

Good, I'm glad your acknowledging the existence of the Shield that no LotR being can get through without being instantly obliterated. I thought you had been ignoring it.

Oh no, I've definitely acknowledged its existence. I completely forgot about that avenue till you brought it forward. Nevertheless, I question its overall efficacy.

...

How will they be pushing them back? How are they going to get through the wizards' shields and attacks? Wait a minute, gimme a sec...

No, I meant, once they see the first 100 Uruk-Hai getting vaporized by the barrier, the arrows/bolts not piercing through, and seeing spells obliterating the 900 rest, all of the LOTR forces will retreat into the Hornburg fortress and Glittering Caves.

They'll have a thousand Uruks acting as fodder while everybody else retreats into the fortress and the extensive network of caverns. This will be used to draw out the HP Army from the protection of the magical shield.

I'm just gonna re-sum up again, hopefully it'll cover everything here, bear with me:

The wizards don't need to advance. Those shields are going up right away. Anyone that gets close gets blasted by about a dozen spells at once. The Nazgul (and perhaps the entire cavalry) can be immobilized very, very quickly. A 12 year old girl cast one spell that took out a whole room of flying magical creatures. An entire army of evil wizards, including the Death Eaters and Voldemort will have no trouble doing the same to everyone here, including the Nazgul. The Nazgul provide the greatest threat with their screams, but frankly, their screech isn't impressive enough to instantly paralyze everyone here (without targeting their own side as well, obviously). They'll be silenced, immobilized, and they and their Beasts will be vaporized when they hit the shield. The arrows, infantry, and cavalry will face the same shield and die. Or they'll hang back. The Huorn to the rear may take some dozens out, but enough wands turning around and firing Incendio or Immobulus (as it was used on the Whomping Willow by Lupin) will do them in. Then there's always Firestorm. And if anyone's feeling a little suicidal and daring, there's Fiendfyre. Should anything or anyone somehow, magically (see what I did there?) get through, every single wizard can apparate. And those that can do the solid-smoke thing, will continue to bombard everything else with spells. And to top it off, Reducto and Bombarda will absolutely level the fortress and the canyon, burying anyone left in it. Some wizards may die, but it'll be through someone's zealous use of Fiendfyre, which frankly would be hella overkill against the trees, but would be very useful when fired forward at the fortress by Voldemort or one of the upper Death Eaters.

It's a nice summary, and I completely understand what you are saying.

Everything is dependent on the shield. Does it have to be made once the battle has begun or is it already produced pre-fighting?

That's it. There's no more to tell. I don't want you to start calling me biased and the new RJ, because I'm not. The LotR movies are far superior to Harry Potter, as are the characters. But I just can not conceive of a way that 1,000 freaking dark wizards are going to fall to swords and arrows, I'm sorry. I know you hate Potter, but this match is [b]horribly in favour of them. [/B]

No, I'm not going to call you biased. You are making sound arguments, and I expect as much from a respectable poster like yourself.

There aren't 1000 Death Eaters. There are 100.

And whoa, I don't hate Harry Potter. Didn't I say earlier that I take no sides?

KV
Didn't I say earlier that I take no sides?

You did, but you do: The opposite side of whatever Quanchi happens to be on. {Not that I blame you, given his complete and total lack of charm.}

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
You did, but you do: The opposite side of whatever Quanchi happens to be on. {Not that I blame you, given his complete and total lack of charm.}

Hey, not my problem if he always chooses the losing side hehe 😛

Korto Vos
Hey, not my problem if he always chooses the losing side hehe 😛

He definitely lost the Battlezone thread {Yoda's speed is simply too significant for a wizard like Voldemort to overcome}, but I'm siding with him and the Canadian here. Irrespective of the quality of the competing films, Potter!forces simply outclass the Middle Earthlings.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
He definitely lost the Battlezone thread {Yoda's speed is simply too significant for a wizard like Voldemort to overcome}, but I'm siding with him and the Canadian here. Irrespective of the quality of the competing films, Potter!forces simply outclass the Middle Earthlings.

The Canadian has made a strong argument. Though, you have to give the Indian some credit here for trying to show how LOTR can emerge victorious.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
I'm not on any side; it's just in debates that I've participated in involved me arguing against Harry Potter.

I can't help it if Yoda > Voldemort, a Balrog would pose a severe challenge, Gandalf > Voldemort, or 13000 LOTR forces would defeat less than a 1000 HP wizards/witches/beasts.

Here's how I see this thread of mine. HP side wins but it isn't a landslide either. One thing people have left out are the golems who will be the ones doing most of the up close and personal fighting for the wizards. You also have the giants who are going to just absolutely wreck through Helms deep along with the wizards and Dementors who all will be pressing it as well.

This along with the aerial and long ranged combat implored by Hp severely dwindle the numbers and quickly. The ability to apparate anywhere they want to also will also give the Lotr side fits. The Nazgul will be huge giant targets and will quickly be blown out of the sky.

The amount of arrowfire and numbers make this interesting but even a weaker, inexperienced punk kid can create giant fire creatures which will take out huge numbers of the Lotr side.

The hp side wins.

Originally posted by Turr_Phennir
He definitely lost the Battlezone thread {Yoda's speed is simply too significant for a wizard like Voldemort to overcome}, but I'm siding with him and the Canadian here. Irrespective of the quality of the competing films, Potter!forces simply outclass the Middle Earthlings.

Like Gid said, Quanchi states that I am "Incorrect on all counts here."

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Like Gid said, Quanchi states that I am "Incorrect on all counts here."

I'm gonna try and condense things best I can, don't want this stretching out too far.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Hmm, how are you envisioning this battle playing out?

I imagine the Elven archers and Helms Deep forces in battle stations (bows and arrows ready) on the Deeping Wall and Hornburg. The Uruk-Hai on the ground guarding the keep- pikes in the front lines, bowmen/crossbowmen in the next lines, and then bulk infantry with the suicide bombers, berserkers, and tanks scattered among them. The Nine Nazgul on top of the Fell Beasts above making vulture rounds above. Gandalf and the Rohirrim in the side valley ready to charge down.

And in front of the Uruk-Hai lie the HP Army, ready to lay siege upon the Deep. Behind them are the line of trees that are of course the Huorn.

I imagine a countdown of ten seconds where nobody makes a move, and then FIGHT!

Uruk-Hai charge forward, Uruks fire arrows/bolts, Elves/Helms Deep defenders fire arrows, Nazgul swoop down shrieking, Huorn advance, and Gandalf & Rohirrim charge down the valley.

So you're saying at the start of battle, the HP Army will all unanimously construct a giant shield. I just find this starting LOTR surge too quick and deadly for the wizards/witches to spend time devising a magical barrier. Rather, I see an offensive push, which is why I am arguing my line of thought.

Now, if we were arguing LOTR siege, and the HP Army DEFENDING Helms Deep, then yes, I agree HP will have a comprehensive victory.

It's not like it takes a whole army to put up Protego Maxima. Flitwick did it himself, and later with Slughhorn and Molly Weasley helping. I feel confident in saying that admist the 1000 dark wizards here, there are enough of them with knowledge of the Shield Charm to make it effective. Get a minor initial charm for that first volley of arrows, then maxima immediately after.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Yes, even if they aren't instant paralyzing screams, the extreme discomfort and pain is enough to make the hardy men of Gondor all cower in fear and clutch their ears, unable to fight. Because the Nine had opposition within Minas Tirith, a massive cityscraper, and the Pelennor, they were spread out and their effectiveness was limited.

In the confines of the Deeping Coomb, the Nine Nazgul can act in deadly unison, with the demoralizing shrieks starting right as the battle begins. This is my rationale as to why they won't be struck by an Immobulus or Silencio any time soon- as soon as they come within range, the shrieks will prevent spellcasting (as the wizards/witches will be holding their ears or be completely consumed in fear).

I mean, I'm just going by the fact that thousands of Rohirrim and Gondorian soldiers had the chance to shoot down the Fell Beast, but absolutely none of them were able to. My logic? As soon as they probably had the opportunity to aim and shoot once the beasts swooped down, the Nazgul shrieks caused them to lower their weapons and more or less act disabled.

2.) The Nazgul shriek will not be delivered upon the ears of the Men, Elves, and horses? There goes the cavalry charge and the Elven bows.

3.) Silencio/Immobulus. Seriously, I know the wizards, probably even Voldemort himself will be affected by the screeching, but it doesn't impair their ability to cast spells. And it's not gonna take a rocket scientist-wizard to figure out that a silencing charm on those big f*cking flying things would be a sound (see what I did there?) move.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
xWell, the wizards/witches have to mow down the Uruks and Rohirrim Cavalry before the Deeping Wall can be breached.

And 1000 is an arbitrary convenient number I made up to comprise the total number of the HP Army, including those suits of armor, giants, acromantula, and house-elves. The Death Eaters themselves, with any Imperiused wizards, probably number less than 130. The Hogwarts staff and students, Hogsmeade residents, Dumbledore's Army, and Order of the Phoenix probably number at what...300 tops? So in actuality, there are probably like 500 wizards/witches MAX at play here.

And as for the charging Uruks/cavalry... Fiendfyre might suck in the hands of Vincent Crabbe, but in the hands of very powerful and experienced Death Eaters, including Voldemort himself, Fiendfyre will annihilate the entire Uruk/Rohirrim company.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Hmm...I want to know your battle logistics before I can comment on this.

What?

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Oh no, I've definitely acknowledged its existence. I completely forgot about that avenue till you brought it forward. Nevertheless, I question its overall efficacy.

But screw it, it doesn't even need to exist. Shield Charms come in smaller, quicker sizes that will block arrows just as well.

Now... if they were magic arrows...

Originally posted by Korto Vos
No, I meant, once they see the first 100 Uruk-Hai getting vaporized by the barrier, the arrows/bolts not piercing through, and seeing spells obliterating the 900 rest, all of the LOTR forces will retreat into the Hornburg fortress and Glittering Caves.

They'll have a thousand Uruks acting as fodder while everybody else retreats into the fortress and the extensive network of caverns. This will be used to draw out the HP Army from the protection of the magical shield.

Well the Uruks were all roasted at the beginning by Fiendfyre, so... anyone left in the caves...

"MAGIC-INDUCED CAVE IN, RUN!"

Originally posted by Korto Vos
It's a nice summary, and I completely understand what you are saying.

Everything is dependent on the shield. Does it have to be made once the battle has begun or is it already produced pre-fighting?

And then there's apparation. Once they start flying around like that, no one's gonna be hurting them. But they can still dish out damage mid-flight.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
No, I'm not going to call you biased. You are making sound arguments, and I expect as much from a respectable poster like yourself.

There aren't 1000 Death Eaters. There are 100.

And whoa, I don't hate Harry Potter. Didn't I say earlier that I take no sides?

I actually went in to this imagining ways in which the wizards would lose, not win. And for the life of me, I can't figure out how they would lose. We'd need to actually handicap the wizards to make this fair, like prohibiting apparation and Dark Magic.

My condensing skills need work.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
I'm gonna try and condense things best I can, don't want this stretching out too far.

Going by this set-up, I see a shitload of Shield Charms going up. If Voldemort and his top Death Eaters are the front, BLAMO! no arrows getting through.

It's not like it takes a whole army to put up Protego Maxima. Flitwick did it himself, and later with Slughhorn and Molly Weasley helping. I feel confident in saying that admist the 1000 dark wizards here, there are enough of them with knowledge of the Shield Charm to make it effective. Get a minor initial charm for that first volley of arrows, then maxima immediately after.

See, there is where I disagree with you. I don't see battle mechanics playing out this way.

It's one thing to "Protego Maxima. Fianto Duri. Repello Inimigotum," and watch as a nice magical barrier takes its time to nicely form when your opposition isn't present. But in the thick of battle? Thousands of arrows being fired per minute, a gigantic cavalry charging down at breakneck speed led by a dude on a white horse casting Blinding Light down upon you, crippling ear-splitting screams by wraiths on wyvern-like creatures above, Orcs pressing forward with some of them setting up explosive charges across the field.

Secondly, and this will be a tad bit abstract, the type of magical barrier you are proposing is inconsistent with the natural formations of the shield in the films. The tandem of spells produced a barrier that naturally disseminated to eventually the cover the Hogwarts complex. A similar repetition would produce a shield that would expand to overlay the Deeping Coomb, much less result in a narrow bubble within an already small valley. Do you understand what I am saying here? I'm terrible at explaining this...

1.) Magic wands x1000 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>bows and arrows.

2.) The Nazgul shriek will not be delivered upon the ears of the Men, Elves, and horses? There goes the cavalry charge and the Elven bows.

3.) Silencio/Immobulus. Seriously, I know the wizards, probably even Voldemort himself will be affected by the screeching, but it doesn't impair their ability to cast spells. And it's not gonna take a rocket scientist-wizard to figure out that a silencing charm on those big f*cking flying things would be a sound (see what I did there?) move.

1. Sure?
2. Well...those on the same side of the Nazgul don't seem to cower against their shrieks. The Orcs aren't affected by the screams; I reckon its very possible the Nazgul target their horrible cries upon their enemies.

Besides, considering how Faramir and the Gondorians were still able to control the reigns of their steeds to the degree that they were able to move towards Minas Tirith during the flight form Osgiliath, the Rohirrim (Horse Lords) should have no trouble managing their horses.

And the Elves and Helms Deep defenders on the Deeping Wall will be just fine.

3. Yeah, but that's the thing- what I was saying is that even if one realized a Silencio would be effective, the constant shrieks would prevent him/her from casting the spell once a Fell Beast came into range.

That number is still more than enough. So long as Voldemort and his Death Eaters are there, they'll win. The rest are superfluous.

And as for the charging Uruks/cavalry... Fiendfyre might suck in the hands of Vincent Crabbe, but in the hands of very powerful and experienced Death Eaters, including Voldemort himself, Fiendfyre will annihilate the entire Uruk/Rohirrim company.

Well, without the shield, those numbers will dwindle very quickly.

17.

What?

LOL, nvm.

Why? Instant evaporation/incineration/obliteration etc.

But screw it, it doesn't even need to exist. Shield Charms come in smaller, quicker sizes that will block arrows just as well.

Now... if they were magic arrows...

Yeah, but think about how many continuous "Protego"s would have to be cast to block the arrows/bolts/debris. Chances are not at the rate of which missiles are being unleashed. Factor in the cavalry, Nazgul, and Uruk-Hai, and Shield Charms won't be enough.

Oh.

Well the Uruks were all roasted at the beginning by Fiendfyre, so... anyone left in the caves...

"MAGIC-INDUCED CAVE IN, RUN!"

The Glittering Caves are quite extensive, y'know..

Either or. If it's before, then they win SUPER-easy. If they have to put it up after the starting pistol, then it'll take a minute. But I'm not impressed enough by the average Elven/Uruk archer to say that they'll be overwhelming the common Shield Charm.

Oh well, I am rather impressed by the average Elven/Uruk archer 😕

And then there's apparation. Once they start flying around like that, no one's gonna be hurting them. But they can still dish out damage mid-flight.

If they pop up surrounded by LOTR forces, they WILL get hit.

100 or 130, which one? Doesn't matter. This is a solid win for the wizards regardless. They have too many tricks and powers for foot soldiers armed with swords and arrows to overcome. The trees are highly flammable and are easily disabled, the Nazgul threat won't last long. And if the giant spiders, trolls etc. are all taking place, then holy hell. I hope they packed a Sam Gamgee with them to take care of all those proto-Shelobs.

100 Death Eaters, and 30 is an arbitrary number I made up to include the number of Imperiused wizards they brought along.

The commanders will have a field day against the beasties. Especially Legolas 😛

I actually went in to this imagining ways in which the wizards would lose, not win. And for the life of me, I can't figure out how they would lose. We'd need to actually handicap the wizards to make this fair, like prohibiting apparation and Dark Magic.

Well, I see an LOTR pyrrhic victory.

My condensing skills need work.

Nah, tis fine!

Originally posted by Korto Vos
It's one thing to "Protego Maxima. Fianto Duri. Repello Inimigotum," and watch as a nice magical barrier takes its time to nicely form when your opposition isn't present. But in the thick of battle? Thousands of arrows being fired per minute, a gigantic cavalry charging down at breakneck speed led by a dude on a white horse casting Blinding Light down upon you, crippling ear-splitting screams by wraiths on wyvern-like creatures above, Orcs pressing forward with some of them setting up explosive charges across the field.

I do not see that from Voldemort and co.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Secondly, and this will be a tad bit abstract, the type of magical barrier you are proposing is inconsistent with the natural formations of the shield in the films. The tandem of spells produced a barrier that naturally disseminated to eventually the cover the Hogwarts complex. A similar repetition would produce a shield that would expand to overlay the Deeping Coomb, much less result in a narrow bubble within an already small valley. Do you understand what I am saying here? I'm terrible at explaining this...

Either way, I don't see the shape of the canyon being a hindrance in any way.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
1. Sure?
2. Well...those on the same side of the Nazgul don't seem to cower against their shrieks. The Orcs aren't affected by the screams; I reckon its very possible the Nazgul target their horrible cries upon their enemies.

Besides, considering how Faramir and the Gondorians were still able to control the reigns of their steeds to the degree that they were able to move towards Minas Tirith during the flight form Osgiliath, the Rohirrim (Horse Lords) should have no trouble managing their horses.

And the Elves and Helms Deep defenders on the Deeping Wall will be just fine.

3. Yeah, but that's the thing- what I was saying is that even if one realized a Silencio would be effective, the constant shrieks would prevent him/her from casting the spell once a Fell Beast came into range.

2.) So wait, Faramir and his riders weren't affected enough by the Nazgul shrieks to cover their ears, fall off their horses, or scream in pain... but the darkest Dark Wizard in all of history will be?

I just watched that scene again to verify, and actually, my own faith in the Nazgul's incapacitating abilities has just been shattered. The Nazgul are contiguously screeching throughout the scene, and not a single Man or horse is seen being affected by it. Huh... shows what I know...

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Well, without the shield, those numbers will dwindle very quickly.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Yeah, but think about how many continuous "Protego"s would have to be cast to block the arrows/bolts/debris. Chances are not at the rate of which missiles are being unleashed. Factor in the cavalry, Nazgul, and Uruk-Hai, and Shield Charms won't be enough.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
The Glittering Caves are quite extensive, y'know..

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Oh well, I am rather impressed by the average Elven/Uruk archer 😕

Originally posted by Korto Vos
If they pop up surrounded by LOTR forces, they WILL get hit.

Originally posted by Korto Vos
100 Death Eaters, and 30 is an arbitrary number I made up to include the number of Imperiused wizards they brought along.

The commanders will have a field day against the beasties. Especially Legolas 😛

Originally posted by Korto Vos
Well, I see an LOTR pyrrhic victory.

Voldemort can literally solo every single LotR character, at once.

Fire an arrow at a cloud of smoke. Nothing happens.

Strike a cloud of smoke with a sword. Nothing happens.

Scream at a cloud of smoke. Nothing happens.

Force push/pull a cloud of smoke. Now we may be getting somewhere...but how is that supposed to happen when the cloud of smoke is moving and can instantly teleport to wherever it wants to go?

Cast a fireball at the cloud of smoke. Nothing happens.

Cast a blinding light at a cloud of smoke. Nothing happens.

So we are left with TK being the only viable option to combat JUST A SINGLE CHARACTER. There's no need for anyone except one decent Death Eater in this thread. Much less the literally invincible Voldemort (horcruxes).

Win (pun intended) will the blind HP hate end?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Very, very few wizards will fall in this. If any. Some of the may get bruised ribs from laughing s hard at their own overwhelming success.

It's hard to see why any more than one decent HP wizard is needed.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Win (pun intended) will the blind HP hate end?

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Once RJ's odor has faded. I'll be honest, I don't feel comfortable supporting Harry Potter so strongly. Makes me feel... *eek* like him.

That b*tch can't sh*t about it. 313

You're safe. Say whatever you want.

I too, also opposed HP against RJ in many threads.

I feel the HP stuff is better suited for arguments...with other powerful magic or god like character.

Dr. Strange (a prime version) would solo the HP-Verse. 🙂