Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I'm not getting into the whole "the fight never ended" argument again. It's semantics and, frankly, it would equally apply to Superman Prime's "wins" also.
😖hifty: Reminiscent of the Odin vs. Thanos debate huh?
One thing about Prime's fights tho is either he's bfr'ed or beats the opposition to a pulp. A convincing conclusion either way.
^ Shush. Nobody wants to talk about Kon-El and Bart Allen matching Prime. Despite them doing it three times each.
Originally posted by SundippedFlashes beat him off-panel in the future. And Prime's respective opposition in Infinite Crisis, Sinestro Corps War and Legion of 3 Worlds was still fighting. Those groups of heroes still had to deal with the other crises that were going on after all (save for Prime's second rampage in Infinite Crisis where he was the last threat).
😖hifty: Reminiscent of the Odin vs. Thanos debate huh?One thing about Prime's fights tho is either he's bfr'ed or beats the opposition to a pulp. A convincing conclusion either way.
Let's be careful about overgeneralizing that every single hero that got in Prime's way was ktfo for the rest of storyline. Because that's simply not true. If you go by foes that Prime actually legitimately "pulped," he pulped Superboy twice, killed/maimed a few Teen Titans, pulped depowered Kal-L, pulped Ion, killed several GLs/YLs, and killed a few Legionnaires. Everybody else that got in his way was knocked around but they were still fighting.
It wasn't like Death of Superman or even World War Hulk where each consecutive foe, or group of foes, was ktfo for virtually the rest of the story. It was more like World War III, a bunch of ko's, some casualties, but the majority of heroes were still in it in the end.
^ Not really seeing it. WWIII Black Adam was only stopped via plot device as well. Beat the living crap out of the Marvel family several times the way Prime beat the crap out of a few Kryptonians. Teth couldn't be stopped by the combined heroes either. This is after an entire week of fighting and with no benefit of another huge crisis spreading the heroes thin.
In fact, WWIII Black Adam never got challenged by Kon-El or Bart Allen three times a piece or defeated by the Teen Titans. WWIII BA > SMP? vin
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Shush. Nobody wants to talk about Kon-El and Bart Allen matching Prime.
We sure don't. 😠
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Let's be careful about overgeneralizing that every single hero that got in Prime's way was ktfo for the rest of storyline. Because that's simply not true. If you go by foes that Prime actually legitimately "pulped," he pulped Superboy twice, killed/maimed a few Teen Titans, pulped depowered Kal-L, pulped Ion, killed several GLs/YLs, and killed a few Legionnaires. Everybody else that got in his way was knocked around but they were still fighting.
It's a longer list if you include Guardian Amp Prime but I'm not sure if thats applicable.
Anyway yeah, valiant effort for those who managed to survive. 😉
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ No indication of amps. In all seriousness, it was probably something like four parts psychological, one part physical. But that one part physical is important. No matter how rattled you are, if you can't feel their punches, you're not going to run away. And Prime felt em.
So what actual conclusion are you coming to? That Prime is herald level and not above it?
Originally posted by Sundipped
how was it jobbing? every time prime fought conner he got trouble and was matched at somr point, this time it was conner + titans and they owned him, its not the first time you know he got owned by superman and super girl combined and he got owned by a bunch of DC heroes before the sun rose, and the flash family? there punches hurt him as hell to the point he escaped... face it SBP is just a herald
Originally posted by Sundipped
I would take time out to respond to your whole post but I'm sure Cogito will respond back.
Alright let's do this. What follows will be rather incomplete because I'm short on time, and will mostly only touch on the Sinestro Corps War
I'm not sure what I'm arguing though.
Is the claim that SBP is weaker than HP DD?
That SBP is weaker than WWIII Black Adam?
Whatever, let's go.
Originally posted by red_turtle
[Sodam Yat] just recieven the ION power he didnt know how to use it properly and still he manage to beat up SBP until that plot device that helped prime
Without posting scans of the fight, Sodam Yat punched SBP once, hit him with one GL blast of some sort, and heat visioned him once before he got his ass beat and impaled. There was not so much as a grunt of pain.
Then Ion fights some more, gets a few good hits on SBP. That is, until SBP beats him so bad he "feels the incessant blows and the bones splintering and cracking beneath his feat" and Ion asks himself if this is where he's going to die.
Originally posted by red_turtle
dude anti monitor was hurt and injured prime surprised him thats not a feat
O rly? Lets start at the beginning.
Anti-Monitor's mere touch scars a Guardian
"Their Guardian (Anti-Monitor) is dead!" Anti-Monitor disagrees
SBP immediately kills Anti-Monitor by busting through him
Ok, so what do we have here. A touch of antimatter can harm and kill a Guardian, yet it does absolutely nothing to SBP when he flies straight through it.
Originally posted by red_turtle
the GLs were just a canon fodder at this point any villian would do the same as prime doomsday black adam or what ever and those GLs were nobodies anyway
Canon fodder?
I see not only two lesser GLs, but also Kilowog, Alan Scott, Superman, Powergirl....
and Guardians
Originally posted by red_turtle
kyle with ION a trans?
Say what you will, but Kyle without Ion is a legit high herald.
Originally posted by red_turtle
Lol 90% of the time prime is defeated by plot device? so basically you are saying that when ever prime is fighting during the night and not during a full sunny day its PIS?
No, I'm not saying fighting at night is PIS. I'm saying he's defeat by plot forces - the Speed Force, Guardian suicide, imminent reboot, and the like.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ He was beat by the Earth heroes in Sinestro Corps War before the sun rose.
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/SBPDrained.jpg
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb378/CogitoXP/SBPDrained2.jpg
States very plainly in these scans that SBP needed the armor at night because he was so drained from being held prisoner for a year in a red sun. While he's absolutely weaker at night than during the day, he is nearly completely drained without the use of his armor in this specific instance in time. This is not a normal nighttime power level for him sans armor.
Even without armor, though, his HV cuts through Superman with ease
And let's look at who fights SBP and beats him pre-sunrise.
We have, among others: Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, Miss Martian, Alan Scott, Zauriel, Starman...Serious heavy hitters all of them. And this was immediately following his fight with Superman, Supergirl, and Power Girl.
And of course that was after his initial welcoming party
I'd keep going with this, and maybe I'll follow up with more, but I'm out of time now.
Originally posted by red_turtle
how was it jobbing? every time prime fought conner he got trouble and was matched at somr point, this time it was conner + titans and they owned him, its not the first time you know he got owned by superman and super girl combined and he got owned by a bunch of DC heroes before the sun rose, and the flash family? there punches hurt him as hell to the point he escaped... face it SBP is just a herald
One thing that urks me is the WG lasso incident. In SC it was a non factor:
But here vs. the Titans Prime is struggling with it. That move is what gave the TT's the upper hand and they were able to collectively beat him. disgust
I sort of expected the writers to give Conner some kind of redemption. After all he is the hero and therefore I wouldn't give that victory precedence over all of Prime's other accomplishments/feats.
Prime shot hv right through Supes during SC indicating Prime is way out of his league. The group Prime fought got what (a couple punches in) before the sun came up? That's nowhere near close to being owned
As far as the Flashes are concerned, look how many it took to successfully bfr him. It was no cakewalk.
Originally posted by SundippedAt the same time, Red Star's attack was totally hurting Prime in Sinestro Corps War:
One thing that urks me is the WG lasso incident. In SC it was a non factor:But here vs. the Titans Prime is struggling with it. That move is what gave the TT's the upper hand and they were able to collectively beat him. disgust
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/10/25/1539595/primvs7.jpg
... while Prime no-sold Red Star's attack in Teen Titans.
Originally posted by SundippedSo Kon-El doing it three times and Bart Allen doing it three times deserves no consideration?
I sort of expected the writers to give Conner some kind of redemption. After all he is the hero and therefore I wouldn't give that victory precedence over all of Prime's other accomplishments/feats.Prime shot hv right through Supes during SC indicating Prime is way out of his league. The group Prime fought got what (a couple punches in) before the sun came up? That's nowhere near close to being owned
Phantom Zone Zod shot hv right through Superman in For Tomorrow. Hell, kid Chris Kent shot hv right through Zod during Last Son.
Originally posted by SundippedYeah, Bart Allen shoulda just beat the crap out of him straight-up instead of bothering with time-travel. vin
As far as the Flashes are concerned, look how many it took to successfully bfr him. It was no cakewalk.
Honestly, I think the only reason why Kon fares surprisingly well against Prime is because of him being Johns' favorite Titan, who also penned Infinite Crisis, SCW, and Lo3W, as well as the whole "Superboy vs. Superboy" draw.
In any case, I do think Prime is unfairly given "pre-crisis" level power levels, when he's really not, imo.
