Achilles vs. Legolas

Originally posted by Borbarad
Oh. Fun. Logical fallacies for starters.

You're right. That would be arguing in circles or a plain use of ipsedixitism. Fortunately, both don't win debates.

Appeal to majorities don't make sense - hence being another one of those "logical fallacies".

The only "superiority" you have demonstrated so far, is your superior ability to summon logical fallacies out of nowhere instead of delivering anything close to a reasonable argument.

Since we've seen Legolas killing Trolls and freaking Oliphants, I can only wonder, how "greater strenght" would be an issue here. The point is, that Achilles won't make it into melee range and even if he does, it's debateable whether or not he could hit Legolas (agility!) with a spear or a sword, while the elf might either stab him with an arrow or keep shooting in melee combat (both of which he has done before).

I didn't know that Achilles is capable of using magic now... 🙄

So Achilles easily knocking and blocking arrows out of the air while not even looking at them isn't proof to my point ? Well color me surprised.

Strength won't be the deciding factor this comes down to skill but seeing as how Achilles' skills with any weapon you place in his hands I think it's safe to say his feats are greater than Legolas'. Legolas' most impressive feats are taking out fodder whereas Achilles also easily takes out fodder. When you pit Legolas, Gimli, and Aragorn up against Gandalfl the white the combined lot of them looked inferior.

Doesn't bode well for your side at all.

There is no way Legolas' arrow stabbing move will have any effect on Achilles' abilities.

Legolas has no blade his only hope is the speed of his shooting and accuracy.

Achilles will repel the first or second arrow before throwing his spear.

By the time Legolas readjusts his grounding Achilles would already be near.

Originally posted by The Silent Hero
Yeah, I mean what scene or part in the movie did he do this I wanna know.

He is fighting men right in front of him while casually blocking and knocking out two arrows aimed for him. he's focusing on what's in front of him as well not just one opponent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyuknIqvofk

Legolas gets hit with the jumpstab

Originally posted by quanchi112
229 in.

He is fighting men right in front of him while casually blocking and knocking out two arrows aimed for him. he's focusing on what's in front of him as well not just one opponent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyuknIqvofk

Those were spears.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Those were spears.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I never said being in the majority makes me right I said it goes against his claim I'm a fanboy because other people agree with my points and my outcome. Don't confuse what I stated or try to twist it around.

No. You said that being right makes you right, which is kind of funny. Then you sited the "majority" to support the notion that you can't be a fanboy. This in a forum, in which people will argue even the most hopeless cases against characters, if they just dislike the characters enough - see any thread involving Potter characters here. So where was you point again?

So Achilles easily knocking and blocking arrows out of the air while not even looking at them isn't proof to my point ? Well color me surprised.

Which he doesn't do. I've watched the clip you've posted, and it shows him blocking spears, with the exception of one arrow that - coincidentally - hits his shield, after he has put it back on his back. We don't see him going all "Scorpion King" and deflect arrows with his blade, I'm afraid.

Strength won't be the deciding factor this comes down to skill but seeing as how Achilles' skills with any weapon you place in his hands I think it's safe to say his feats are greater than Legolas'. Legolas' most impressive feats are taking out fodder whereas Achilles also easily takes out fodder. When you pit Legolas, Gimli, and Aragorn up against Gandalfl the white the combined lot of them looked inferior.

Again, I have absolutely no idea, why you keep siting Gandalf. The guy is a magic user, for God's sake - and one of the most powerful present in the LotR universe, which are known for leveling armies on their own. Not even remotely compareable sitautions.

And of course, Legolas mostly downs "fodder", because that's the targets present to him in the LotR universe. They don't pit him up against really "skilled" opponent, but then again, he personaly kills an Oliphant and a Troll, with the first feat being totally out of question for Achilles.

Doesn't bode well for your side at all.

Since your argument is based on nothing but your missinterpretation of on screen evidence, I'd say my side wins. 🙂

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, they weren't.

Yes. They were. Unless you want to assume, that the soldiers Achilles cuts down did attack him with arrows in their hands or jumped at him unarmed, in order to hinder his advance with their piled up bodies. 🙄

Originally posted by Nephthys
Those were spears.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, they weren't.

2.29 right? Are you talking about the arrows that hit his shield when he puts it on his back? Because other than that he just parries 2 spearmen and kills them. I don't see him knocking arrows out of the air with his sword at that point.

Originally posted by Mindset
The first one looks like an arrow.

Its the guys spear. You can see it in his hand after Achilles cuts him.

Nm, it's a spear.

Originally posted by the ninjak
That's like saying Bullseye can't hit DareDevil because he can't miss shots. Yet Daredevil saw each shot coming and dodged them good.

Achilles' shield will ensure the first shot from Legolas misses.
The thrown spear will ensure Legolas must evade before firing his next shot.
By the time Legolas shoots his second arrow, Achilles is already close.

Those arrows are still as fast as as normal arrows. Achilles wins this simply due to Legolas having no close combat capabilities.

Non sequitur response. I was responding to Quanchi saying Achilles could throw a spear almost as far as Legolas can shoot an arrow. Which is nothign more than him masturbating Achilles, as is his MO in here.

So I have no idea why you ranted. But you scripted, that's no way to win an argument. Legolas NEVER misses, no matter the distance, angle or what he's doing, be it standing, surfing down stairs or balancing on an Olyphant. So Achilles blocks one arrow with his shield, fine; that's likely possible, the second arrow delivered a split-second later hits him in tender spot; it's all down-hill from there.

Originally posted by Borbarad
No. You said that being right makes you right, which is kind of funny. Then you sited the "majority" to support the notion that you can't be a fanboy. This in a forum, in which people will argue even the most hopeless cases against characters, if they just dislike the characters enough - see any thread involving Potter characters here. So where was you point again?

Which he doesn't do. I've watched the clip you've posted, and it shows him blocking spears, with the exception of one arrow that - coincidentally - hits his shield, after he has put it back on his back. We don't see him going all "Scorpion King" and deflect arrows with his blade, I'm afraid.

Again, I have absolutely no idea, why you keep siting Gandalf. The guy is a magic user, for God's sake - and one of the most powerful present in the LotR universe, which are known for leveling armies on their own. Not even remotely compareable sitautions.

And of course, Legolas mostly downs "fodder", because that's the targets present to him in the LotR universe. They don't pit him up against really "skilled" opponent, but then again, he personaly kills an Oliphant and a Troll, with the first feat being totally out of question for Achilles.

Since your argument is based on nothing but your missinterpretation of on screen evidence, I'd say my side wins. 🙂

Yes. They were. Unless you want to assume, that the soldiers Achilles cuts down did attack him with arrows in their hands or jumped at him unarmed, in order to hinder his advance with their piled up bodies. 🙄

The first one could be a spear but the second definitely is an arrow and we can tell since it sticks in his shield. Also he put his shield where it needed to be while fighting men directly in front of him as opposed to the shield being in the right place at the right time.

Gandalf has to use the magic prior to the arrow hitting him which shows he has the reflexes to do so. The magic is irrelevant just like Achilles has the reflexes to do so while fighting other opponents in his path let alone just focusing on him.

He kills them eventually yes, but the one instance he's up against a skilled opponent in Gandalf he looks rather ineffective.

Unlike you I won't downplay someone's feats in order to persuade those to latch onto my side. Achilles wins.

Achilles makes the best fighters look pedestrian while Gandalf made Legolas, Gimli, and Aragorn combined look pedestrian.

Originally posted by Nephthys
2.29 right? Are you talking about the arrows that hit his shield when he puts it on his back? Because other than that he just parries 2 spearmen and kills them. I don't see him knocking arrows out of the air with his sword at that point.

Originally posted by quanchi112
My point was arguing for a character the majority agrees with wins isn't being a fanboy. That's only evident or more likely the case when it's one man vs. everyone else. I'm right you're wrong let's move on.

Arguing for a character, based on the demonstrably false perception of an action of a character in a movie, would count as fanboyism, though. Or is that plain and simple idiocy.

The first one could be a spear but the second definitely is an arrow and we can tell since it sticks in his shield. Also he put his shield where it needed to be while fighting men directly in front of him as opposed to the shield being in the right place at the right time.

He just parries two spears and stop arguing it. The arrow that lands in his shield is visibly thinner than the two spears he parries before. So you're wrong. Accept it and move on.

Gandalf has to use the magic prior to the arrow hitting him which shows he has the reflexes to do so. The magic is irrelevant just like Achilles has the reflexes to do so while fighting other opponents in his path let alone just focusing on him.

Gandalf is a godlike being, equipped with abilities well beyond that of mortals. And it's not irrelevant, that he used magic, because he could just have summoned an protective shield, similar to what he used against the Balrog, with the arrow being deflected by it, which would make his reflexes irrelevant. Please stop this nonsense. You're wrong, end of story.

He kills them eventually yes, but the one instance he's up against a skilled opponent in Gandalf he looks rather ineffective.

Do you want to compare Achilles to Gandalf? Seriously? If not, your "argument" still doesn't make sense.

Unlike you I won't downplay someone's feats in order to persuade those to latch onto my side. Achilles wins.

Unlike you, I don't need to make feats up in order to support my argument.

YouTube video

Here. Watch the #1 scene and accept that Achilles is nothing compared to Legolas. Hell. Scenes #2 and #3 also establish, that Legolas is, simple put, superhuman - unlike Achilles.

Achilles makes the best fighters look pedestrian while Gandalf made Legolas, Gimli, and Aragorn combined look pedestrian.

This is getting annoying. You essentially say this: "Because a godlike entity makes Gimli, Aragorn and Legolas look like pedestrians, Legolas is going to lose against a skilled mortal." Does that translate into a sound argument in your plane of existance, because it certainly doesn't in the realms of us feeble mortals, where logic is still used.

I'm trying to find these arrows people keep saying that he knocks aside, but all I see are spears being parried.

Spears, both of them. He does block an arrow with his shield though.

Originally posted by quanchi112
First one is probably a spear the second is definitely an arrow. It being a spear shows how incredibly strong he is to casually dismiss a spear as opposed to an arrow.

Both of them were spears.

And no, it doesn't.

Achilles will catch the arrows in his teeth then remove Legolas' head with his shield.

Legolas killed a Uruk with a shield, so he has shield-feats over Achilles too.