Wonder Woman (w/Gauntlets of Atlas) vs. WBH

Originally posted by h1a8
How can Hulk win comfortable if
1. She lassos him
2. Combos him to ko while he is a statue
3. Avoid his attacks b/c he is a statue and she is highly skilled
?

False, it was the power of the wish that made her powerful and not her draining Hulk. And Red Hulk can drain more than Gamma energy, he can drain the OF, cosmic power, etc.

Math doesn't lie. So it is irrelevant who believes it or not. The Hulk feat was nothing more than a being doing an omnidirectional blast combined with strength. The gamma energy inside Hulk was released upon the collision. A 1000x Wendigo or Bi-Beast are still far under planetary power. Do you know how much an Earth weight of force is? If Normal Wendigo can lift 1 million tons (I disagree) then 1000x times that is only 1billion tons. This is astronomical dust compared to an Earth weight. Lastly, it seem Bi Beast and Wendigo wasn't 1000x size when they struck Hulk in the face in the end (where Hulk didn't flinch much).
Superman or WW at their best are still far stronger than 1000x Wendigo or Bi Beast. It takes more force the destroy a planet with a single shot than it takes to lift one. So at best Hulk showed half the energy required to one shot a planet and not actually lift one.

Not only would Hulk be a statue to Diana but she could win by yawning and simply lassoing him (even if you don't accept her comboing him to ko).

You don't know what your talking about, i follow the Hulk, and know that the wishing well only allowed Betty to keep pace with Bruce, it never changed how her powers worked, you should re-read it. Rulk can no longer siphon energy the way that he could, two months ago he fought Omegex, and lost the ability, so now he can only siphon gamma rays or gamma mutates. Trust me I know. Pay close attention to what I previously wrote. The Wishing Well did not change the way that any of the characters in those books powers worked. It didn't make Betty stronger the way that you believe that it did, she was latching onto Bruces ambient energy.

All the same it's kind of hard to prove or disprove the lasso's effects, but on the Hulk you never know if he could resist it, he's resisted some pretty crazy things in the past, so you never know. Konvikt resisted the lasso as well didn't he? And I doubt that her punches would even register outside of being an annoyance, based on how well he took a punch.

This thread was a waste, because Wonder Woman is way out of her class here. Just let it go.

yea you ought to go ahead, and re-read the entire arc, and realize that in Vegas the Hulk could have destroyed the entire planet by dropping his foot, show me somewhere that Wonder Woman or Superman for that matter towed a planet under their own power, let alone one shot an earth sized planet. The BS is strong in you young Jedi.

Hmm I dunno.. Multiplying Dians's strength by 10 would be almost like Warrior Madness Thor! Then add in Diana's crazy speed, and I doubt Hulk's gna stomp this one..

Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Hmm I dunno.. Multiplying Dians's strength by 10 would be almost like Warrior Madness Thor! Then add in Diana's crazy speed, and I doubt Hulk's gna stomp this one..

Your statement is filled with flaws. You failed to take any of the Hulks past abilities and feats into consideration. In order for me to cement this fact, let's take a walk down memory lane.

The Wonder Woman = Thor claim
The Savage Hulk, an inferior Hulk by leaps and bounds, was able time and time again to not only compete with Thor, but actually put him on the defensive.

WB Hulk is far more powerful than Savage Hulk. Wendigo who was basically as big a thorn in the Savage Hulks side as Thor, was made to be 1000x more powerful than it's normal Savage Hulk like power levels. Even at 8-10x, Wonder Woman would be no where near the ballpark of a 1000x Savage Hulk. The crazy thing is that when the Hulk went to the Dark Dimension, he was operating at even higher levels than his stupendous handling of not just a Wendigo operating at 1000x its normal level, but add Bi-Beast to this. It more or less makes Diana operating at 10x her normal power level lacking by a light year.

Speed? She's going to blitz all over him? No. Sentry had speed equal to or greater than Wonder Woman, and the Hulk stopped him dead in his tracks.

This really isn't a contest if you think about it, it's a slaughter, and until anyone can prove that the lasso would be able to even affect the Hulk, it's not really a for sure win. The Hulk as I mentioned before has resisted some pretty crazy things. There would be no question if no one in history ever resisted the lasso, but Konvikt resisted it, among others.

9/10 Hulk ftw

This really isn't a contest if you think about it, it's a slaughter, and until anyone can prove that the lasso would be able to even affect the Hulk, it's not really a for sure win. The Hulk as I mentioned before has resisted some pretty crazy things. There would be no question if no one in history ever resisted the lasso, but Konvikt resisted it, among others.

9/10 Hulk ftw [/B]

Never did get into Trinity - what happened in the Konvikt fight?

I know Doomsday resisted it, but he has Brainiac controlling him at the time. Something similar could be argued here.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Never did get into Trinity - what happened in the Konvikt fight?

I know Doomsday resisted it, but he had no soul or something to that effect.

In the first few Trinity comics, I believe that Wonder Woman while battling Konvikt tied him up with the lasso to no effect. I need to check but I think that happened. adding Doomsday to to mix is just another example of the lasso not being 100% effective. My point is that we can't rely on the lasso as being a for sure win against a character like the Hulk who has a history of resisting powers of compulsion.

Originally posted by Stoic
In the first few Trinity comics, I believe that Wonder Woman while battling Konvikt tied him up with the lasso to no effect. I need to check but I think that happened. adding Doomsday to to mix is just another example of the lasso not being 100% effective. My point is that we can't rely on the lasso as being a for sure win against a character like the Hulk who has a history of resisting powers of compulsion.

I just see the Banner persona taking over the body of the Hulk, and the Hulk one shotting a (very) surprised Diana.

Lasso's still unbreakable, and Diana's in a tier of speed where Hulk, for all intents and purposes, will be standing still relative to her, so she can hogtie him before he even knows what's happening..

Originally posted by cdtm
Lasso's still unbreakable, and Diana's in a tier of speed where Hulk, for all intents and purposes, will be standing still relative to her, so she can hogtie him before he even knows what's happening..

Has she ever failed in her attempt to hogtie a slower opponent? The Hulk has proven time and again that he can react, to characters far faster than himself. Perhaps he simply isn't as slow as many make him out to be. Sentry is a fine example, as is Gladiator.

Originally posted by Stoic
Has she ever failed in her attempt to hogtie a slower opponent? The Hulk has proven time and again that he can react, to characters far faster than himself. Perhaps he simply isn't as slow as many make him out to be. Sentry is a fine example, as is Gladiator.

PIS.

Mongul and Doomsday both tagged a speeding Superman, but that doesn't prove they could do it on the boards, ever..

The Lasso's also worked on Ares, a Hecate amped Sersi, an amped Captain Marvel, and Darkseid just to name a few. History as a whole supports it effecting Heralds and Skyfathers alike more so than the few times it has been resisted. Hell, Deathstroke resisted the lasso, and that's bonafide PIS and then some.

Good points, Jake.

Originally posted by cdtm
PIS.

Mongul and Doomsday both tagged a speeding Superman, but that doesn't prove they could do it on the boards, ever..

As far as board rules applies it's PIS or CIS if it happens once, but to happen over and over again? There comes a time that you just have tp accept that it is within the characters ability to tag people faster than themselves... Spiderman and other precogs not included.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
The Lasso's also worked on Ares, a Hecate amped Sersi, an amped Captain Marvel, and Darkseid just to name a few. History as a whole supports it effecting Heralds and Skyfathers alike more so than the few times it has been resisted. Hell, Deathstroke resisted the lasso, and that's bonafide PIS and then some.

All of those characters that you mentioned are not the Hulk, the fact that others have resisted it gives it a less than 100% stopping ratio, which means that it is not an argument that can be proven, when placing it against a character that has huge resistance feats in terms of powers that compel other to do xyz. Like it may have no effect on him, or he may be able to overcome it. Others have.

Like I said, how many times does something have to happen before it is no longer PIS. Forum rules and such as they are.

Originally posted by Stoic
All of those characters that you mentioned are not the Hulk, the fact that others have resisted it gives it a less than 100% stopping ratio, which means that it is not an argument that can be proven, when placing it against a character that has huge resistance feats in terms of powers that compel other to do xyz. Like it may have no effect on him, or he may be able to overcome it. Others have.

Like I said, how many times does something have to happen before it is no longer PIS. Forum rules and such as they are.

You're right; a great deal of them are far more powerful than he is.

It's not a mental avenue of attack, it effects the soul, and high end Skyfather deities who are naturally explicitly fortified against this method of attack being completely unable to resist it says more about the lasso's power than the seldom times where it has been resisted, usually with next to no explanation given. Recently, the lasso was shown to backfire when ensnaring someone with no soul to tame, so a demon or another being with literally no soul to speak of has a chance of resisting it.

Simply put, there's more evidence supporting it effecting Hulk than there is not effecting him. The Deathstroke example was blatant PIS. "Paul Bunyan" severing the lasso was due in part to Queen of Fables reality warping and the fact that her very nature (ie. being fiction) enables her to be an anti-thesis to the truth.

So unless the Hulk either has no soul to tame, which we know is false, is a reality warper, or his soul is more potent than people like Ares and Darkseid, if Diana is inclined to lasso him and use the powers of the lasso against him, it's probably going to work. CIS being on means that Diana won't instantly resort to that, obviously.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
You're right; a great deal of them are far more powerful than he is.

It's not a mental avenue of attack, it effects the soul, and high end Skyfather deities who are naturally explicitly fortified against this method of attack being completely unable to resist it says more about the lasso's power than the seldom times where it has been resisted, usually with next to no explanation given. Recently, the lasso was shown to backfire when ensnaring someone with no soul to tame, so a demon or another being with literally no soul to speak of has a chance of resisting it.

Simply put, there's more evidence supporting it effecting Hulk than there is not effecting him. The Deathstroke example was blatant PIS. "Paul Bunyan" severing the lasso was due in part to Queen of Fables reality warping and the fact that her very nature (ie. being fiction) enables her to be an anti-thesis to the truth.

So unless the Hulk either has no soul to tame, which we know is false, is a reality warper, or his soul is more potent than people like Ares and Darkseid, if Diana is inclined to lasso him and use the powers of the lasso against him, it's probably going to work. CIS being on means that Diana won't instantly resort to that, obviously.

To get to the soul is to go through the mind. Check it. The fact that it was resisted at all gives the Hulk the right to be placed on the perhaps he can resist it list. There are far more things leaning towards the Hulk kicking her ass very fast as opposed to her maybe maybe not stoppage of the Hulk via the lasso. Again you can't say for certain that he could not resist it.

He isn't resisting. Didn't a lower level empath just revert him to Banner recently?

Originally posted by Konton
He isn't resisting. Didn't a lower level empath just revert him to Banner recently?

So you take a low showing and ignore all of his high ones? Without understanding the Hulk and his resistance feats in terms of physical trauma resistance and or mental trauma resistance depends on his anger level, and WB Hulk as is the Hulk in this thread, may have a chance in resisting it. The key word here is "MAY". This is enough for me to be as adamant as your "NO he won't resist it" to saying Yes he will resist it. You see where we are?

Aside from the lasso stunt she has no way of beating him physically, in fact, the power that was pouring off of him alone would likely tear Diana apart. This isn't a contest, why do you guys try to make it seem like it would be?

I would give the Hulk a full 10/10 ftw but the lasso is her only chance of even surviving, and that's if....

1. He does not resist it, and use it on her.

2. She is even able to get within striking distance of him, before she is reduced to dust by the power bleeding off of him.

Originally posted by Stoic
Aside from the lasso stunt she has no way of beating him physically, in fact, the power that was pouring off of him alone would likely tear Diana apart. This isn't a contest, why do you guys try to make it seem like it would be?

Well, I made the thread for one, and I'd like to think I don't intentionally make spite threads unless I'm trying to make a point or troll somebody, neither of which I'm doing here. 😉

Further more, considering Diana wasn't one shot killed by a bloodlusted Superman, with her strength and durability amplified by ten times, I don't see WBH spite stomping her physically with his blows, let alone the fact that she can absorb them with her bracers.

Basically it boils down to how much stock you put into WBH and how far beyond you think he is in comparison to "heralds" vs. what Diana brings to the table with her amp, skills, and equipment.

Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Well, I made the thread for one, and I'd like to think I don't intentionally make spite threads unless I'm trying to make a point or troll somebody, neither of which I'm doing here. 😉

Further more, considering Diana wasn't one shot killed by a bloodlusted Superman, with her strength and durability amplified by ten times, I don't see WBH spite stomping her physically with his blows, let alone the fact that she can absorb them with her bracers.

Basically it boils down to how much stock you put into WBH and how far beyond you think he is in comparison to "heralds" vs. what Diana brings to the table with her amp, skills, and equipment.

True, and I don't believe that you did, and at first you might think that this would be an actual close battle, until you really think about all of the angles.

I don't believe that Wonder Woman is above Thor, and as I pointed out Thor, Savage Hulk, Wendigo, and Bi-Beast were near enough in power based on past conflicts. When you look at it that way and how easily the Hulk dealt with Wendigo, and Bi-Beast amped 1000x their base, Wonder Woman at 10x base, falls short in the power department, as would a blood lusted 10x Superman. This of course depends on if you believe that DC characters are as far above Marvel characters as some others on KMC do even when feats say otherwise. it's really up to the viewer.

I don't really exclusively hold on to the idea that DC characters are more powerful than Marvel ones. At best I think you could make an argument for DC Earth pre reboot being more stacked than Marvel Earth, but the top dogs on Marvel Earth have the means to compete with the more numerous heralds on DC. Of course, some people think Superman and Co are vastly more powerful than Thor/Hulk and vice versa. I also don't mark out for speed, either, which tends to be a more "pro-DC" line of thought, imo.