Oh, I know it's a trap. I just want to see how long I can go on with different reasonable arguments to these "um, well, because i like the other character better..." thingys. When I'm out of Dumble's feats, I'm done. It's always fun to see yourself being uber-superior to the "I know you are, but what am I?"
I'll stop soon, I promise.
I dunno, plot?
I'm not saying he would win easily, but I am leaning towards him.
People are saying Voldy knew he couldn't win, but I felt like Voldy thought he could beat Dumbledore. In Order of the Phoenix, Dumbledore tells him the Order is on the way, Voldy could have just left, but instead he takes him on anyway, he obviously thought he might have been able to kill him within that amount of time.
The reason Voldemort doesn't just randomly kill Dumbles...
1. He spent most of his time (almost all) behind the most protected place in the wizarding world: Hogwarts.
2. He had the Elder Wand which is almost a guaranteed victory for Dumbledore.
3. Dumbledore is one of if not the best duelist in his day.
4. Dumbledore is probably second in magical knowledge only to Voldemort...which is like saying $45.1 billion is second to $45.11 billion.
5. Dumbledore is surrounding but quite capable wizards at Hogwarts...making it a nasty choice.
This all points to an obvious reason that he attacked Dumbledore while at the ministry: It offered the best possible chance at eliminating his biggest threat because Dumbeldore did not have Hogwarts to protect him and Dumbledore did not have "on-hand" back up from other powerful wizards. Voldemort thought it possible to defeat Dumbledore, swiftly, in that brief period of time before everyone showed up.
Voldemort certainly gave Dumbledore a hard time...and he ALMOST had victory at multiple points.
Originally posted by Korto VosThe movies also make it clear Dumbledore with the elder wand was unable to best Voldemort. Voldemort had control longer and was the one trying to kill him while Dumbledore just looked to survive the fight.
Sirius, don't bother. You're getting sucked into the classic Quanchi trap.Films and books both make it clear that Voldemort is [B]unable
to defeat Dumbledore.If Voldemort didn't have have Horcruxes, and fought Dumbledore to the death, he would lose. [/B]
Originally posted by siriuswriterPossessing Harry is just another tactic against Dumbledore. He was frustrated most certainly but at no point desperate.
I agree that Dumbledore has an, "Oh shit!" moment, but he does recover.Possessing Harry is a last resort move because Voldemort's trying to catch Dumble's bluff - "I thought you said that Harry would beat me! Well, I suppose if you decide to kill him, you could kill me... and that's what you want most, isn't it?"
And even though he wouldn't really be dead, it counts as a KO because he'll have to wander around in spirit form forever - the trick with the snake and the bone and the blood in Goblet of Fire was a one-time thing.
I think we've seen different movies. Again, the burden of proof is on you. Go get some footage and I might begin to see you as a credible resource. "Because I said so," is rotten debate tactic. I did debate in high school - I know this stuff.
How is the burden of proof on me.....the fight made it clear despite the more powerful wand Voldemort was the one in control. The only point in their battle that Dumbledore had the upper hand was with the bubble of water to which his response was swift and his most effective. He knocked Dumbledore on his ass and at no point in this entire fight did Dumbledore look confident as opposed to Voldemort who was just irked he hadn't killed Dumbledore.
Originally posted by siriuswriterThe film made it pretty obvious Voldemort was in control while Dumbledore just survived long enough for the backup to arrive.
*yawns and stretches* All right, well I'm done in here folks. Hopefully all these threads will not be posted in for a bit and they can become part of kmc colorful history.
from what I've seen in the movies, I say stalemate, the books are another matter though...
as for Hogwarts, the barriers and enchantments that protect the grounds can be cleverly bypassed...
the real reason people proclaim Hogwarts as the safest place is because Dumbledore himself lives there, he himself is the greatest protection, not the castle's internal enchantments...
Originally posted by draxx_tOfUWhat makes you say stalemate based off of the movies ? Dumbledore was doing enough to stay alive he wasn't in control of the fight save the water bubble.
from what I've seen in the movies, I say stalemate, the books are another matter though...as for Hogwarts, the barriers and enchantments that protect the grounds can be cleverly bypassed...
the real reason people proclaim Hogwarts as the safest place is because Dumbledore himself lives there, he himself is the greatest protection, not the castle's internal enchantments...
Originally posted by Utrigita
Albus was capable of defeating someone with the elder wand, same can't be said for Voldemort, from my point of view that alone could be enough to argue for a win in Albus favor.
Depends who that someone was, and how he was defeated.
We know among the earlier owners of the wand, one of them was killed in his sleep.
That reminds me, whats all the fanboy talk about the Wand only changing ownership if the previous owner was defeated in a magic battle? Getting killed when asleep destroys that belief.
Originally posted by Placidity
Depends who that someone was, and how he was defeated.We know among the earlier owners of the wand, one of them was killed in his sleep.
That reminds me, whats all the fanboy talk about the Wand only changing ownership if the previous owner was defeated in a magic battle? Getting killed when asleep destroys that belief.
Except in this particular incident we know that Dumbledore became famous in the entire wizard community for defeating the wielder of the Elder Wand, not that it was known to anyone but Dumbledore that Grindelwald was in possession of it, but it's still the facts.
I can't imagine the Wand being that dedistinguishing in it's approach, rather it accepts that it's master have been beaten (Harry quickly disarming Draco is a excellent example) also aveda kedavra works just as well if the guy is asleep.
Originally posted by draxx_tOfUVoldemrt was clearly in control. Dumbledore was fighting for his life and on his knees at the end of their duel.
iirc, neither had the other in a complete disadvantage, though Albus was trying to protect Harry at the same time, and he did have the elder wand, so maybe that was PIS on Dumbledore's part...
Originally posted by Utrigita
Except in this particular incident we know that Dumbledore became famous in the entire wizard community for defeating the wielder of the Elder Wand, not that it was known to anyone but Dumbledore that Grindelwald was in possession of it, but it's still the facts.
Do you know this from the films only or from the books? I haven't read the books and don't recall the films too well except for the latest one.
Originally posted by Placidity
Do you know this from the films only or from the books? I haven't read the books and don't recall the films too well except for the latest one.
Both, I believe it was mentioned in the movies (can't recall which one) that Dumbledore was more or less forced to fight his old friend Grindelwald, but yes the books mentions it aswell. I honestly can't imagine the movies leaving it out because Grindelwald is a rather importent part of what shaped Dumbledore into what he is.
Originally posted by UtrigitaDo you believe Grindelwald was better, equal to, or less than Voldemort ?
Both, I believe it was mentioned in the movies (can't recall which one) that Dumbledore was more or less forced to fight his old friend Grindelwald, but yes the books mentions it aswell. I honestly can't imagine the movies leaving it out because Grindelwald is a rather importent part of what shaped Dumbledore into what he is.