Italian Americans vs. African Americans.

In my history class, we were tasked with researching and writing about how poorly Italian Americans were treated. I did not know how truly poorly they were treated until I dug into the research. Some of it is just awful. Reminded me of the treatment of African Americans and in some ways it was worse.

They were discrimnated against (true), lynched (true), routinely denied jobs and education because of their ethnicity (true), were persecuted because of their religion (true...Americans didn't like Catholics for obvious reasons), came to America at the bottom of the social totem pole (true), and were relegated to very low-paying blue-collar jobs (true). Yet, as early as 1990, 30 of Italians were managers or professionals and 35% were white-collar. http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/ancestry/Italian.txt

So, how is that possible for such a heavily discriminated against people to rise from the ashes in such a short period of time?

Basically, why is there such a difference between Italian Americans and African Americans? What factors from and for each group lead to their differing socioeconomic statuses?

I actually had many reasons for the differences. But I wanted to read/hear reasons from others before I got into it.

Italians fought to keep their land, in CA!

You still go to school?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Basically, why is there such a difference between Italian Americans and African Americans? What factors from and for each group lead to their differing socioeconomic statuses?

Until recently, the Jewish people were persecuted and homeless for not hundreds, but thousands of years. Yet, they not only survived but thrived. Their source of strength? Their culture, their faith: a context of connection, values, meaning and identity.

IMO, this is exactly what was stripped from the various African peoples being brought to America as slaves: this social/spiritual sustanence which worked for the Jews, Italians, Chinese, etc. Hell, once in America, Africans couldn't even bank on keeping their families intact. Imagine the effect this abject rending away of support, context and identity would have on an individual.

I do think there are other reasons, but I see this as primary.

Italians probably have more advanced brains, or something.

Probably the major factor is in our 'white' civilization Italians are a lot harder to pick out than blacks.

I (as an English/Irish 'mutt'😉 have several friends of Italian descent. The only way you could tell them apart from any other generic caucasian would be by hearing their last names.

Therefore they were able to 'blend in' to society a lot easier than people of African descent could.

Dadudemon I would also throw the Irish into the same category as the Italian immigrants...same level of discrimination from what I've read.

But again, once you lose that accent you are in the good ol' boys club. Blacks can't lose their skin color...therefore the cycle of poverty due to systematic discrimination is a lot harder to break.

They are pretty better off now and so are the Africans that live in America I am not sure if Africa is however.

Identifying a black person is much easier than identifying an Italian person. Losing an accent and not mentioning your religion are pretty easy. After a few generations telling who is from an Italian family and who isn't requires really going out of your way.

Another good question would be to look at how much support from home they got and what their families started with. Africans who can trace back to slaves have a family history that starts with nothing.

I'm looking at your source right now and finding something odd.
Nigerian descent: 33% managerial professional
http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/ancestry/Nigerian.txt
Maybe it's the Italians that need to catch up?

I could spot an Italian just as much as an African.

I'd suggest you are undervaluing the impact of slavery, jim crow and all that stuff.

culture may have been against white irish, italian and jewish people at some point (catholics too), but the entire judicial, policing and governmental system were set up against black people.

Originally posted by ADarksideJedi
I could spot an Italian just as much as an African.

false breasts fallacy

Originally posted by inimalist
false breasts fallacy

Exactly.

I would dare suggest many northern Italians are indistinguishable from your average UK'r with bright blue and even green eyes...pale skin etc.

Oh, another important data point, the average for the entire population:
http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/ancestry/All_Persons.txt
26.4% of people are managerial professional

Originally posted by theICONiac
Exactly.

I would dare suggest many northern Italians are indistinguishable from your average UK'r with bright blue and even green eyes...pale skin etc.

and many southern Italians would be indistinguishable from light skinned North Africans

I thought this was going to be a debate between who are the better barbers

Originally posted by inimalist
I'd suggest you are undervaluing the impact of slavery, jim crow and all that stuff.

culture may have been against white irish, italian and jewish people at some point (catholics too), but the entire judicial, policing and governmental system were set up against black people.

Not only this, but Italians are one of the immigrant groups who benefitted from a culture that heavily promoted a sense of family/belonging within their circles.

Why is it most major cities have a 'Little Italy' subsection? This clique-ish attitude contributed to the stereotypical pauper-poor Italian immigrant coming to the new world, being propped up/helped out by his fellow countrymen and becoming successful.

This correlates to the success of the Italian mafia, and really helped to put the 'organized' in organized crime.

Originally posted by inimalist
and many southern Italians would be indistinguishable from light skinned North Africans

But not sub-saharan Africans of who made up the bulk of the US slave trade.

Originally posted by theICONiac
But not sub-saharan Africans of who made up the bulk of the US slave trade.

for sure, my point was more about the diversity of appearance among italians (or any ethnic group for that matter)

Originally posted by inimalist
for sure, my point was more about the diversity of appearance among italians (or any ethnic group for that matter)

Yeah, I was just trying to loop back to ADarksideJedi's claim she could pick an Italian out of a group of whities as easily as a black dude.

Who cares? They are both equally worthless scum.