superman vs. goku

Originally posted by carver9
Prime is relentless. He was gone to long...he had to have been knocked out. Monarch said an entire dialog before Prime showed back up.

By the way, I made this thread just for you. Lol. These people are well knowledged on Goku...VERY knowkedged. Enjoy

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f104/t560075.html

He was gone for a panel. A panel carver. So do you think that characters have to be shown every panel or they're unconscious? What are you three?

An entire dialogue. Funny you should talk about long dialogue when debating DBZ characters.

Seriously, there was literally no evidence to even lend to the idea that he was KOed. He was only KOed twice in the entirety of countdown. In the beginning when he was warped atom by atom into the multiverse during the end of sc/ the beginning of countdown by a kamizaze attack from a guardian; and during the end in which he was KOed by the universe buster which is directly after the page that we're debating. So I don't see your point. I mean I know you're trying to lowball, but you're not really even doing it right. Hell if you want to lowball Prime, then pick something more well-known and legitimate, not this shit.

Just for me? Carv, I'm touched....

Seriously though, it still doesn't explain why they can't take being tossed into the sun. Also keep in mind, that Vegeta was wounded by Krillin. Thats how he even got strong enough to keep up with final stage Frieza.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Good for him.

Never said that DBZ characters weren't planet busters. However, that doesn't mean that every attack is a planet-buster either. Name some characters in the DBZ-verse who have tanked an actual confirmed planet-buster, not just a 20x Kamehameha that was rumored to be a planet-buster based upon an inference made by taking a literal interpretation from an arrogant, prideful evil character. And please try to find examples that don't involve coming back as a cyborg.... because that's not durability, it's luck and circumstance.

I can name a character. Superman. He's survived planet-busters, double-planet-busters, solar-system-busters, ect. Name a DBZ character with that kind of durability oir even close and you'll have an argument.

Fixed.

Superman got hit by an exploding sun.

They went through mountains? That measures up to some of superman's lower showings. You're making progress.

Cool, superman got swatted around by Darkseid, Dominus, the Time Trapper, Imperiex, his own death, Doomsday, etc.... all of whom are far above any version of Goku. Just like superman is.

Goku didn't use that attack, Frieza did, and it came back and half-killed him.

Goku never did anything to level Namek, Frieza's pussy "toss an energy-ball into the core of the planet and disrupt it" attack did. If superman wants to level a planetoid, he just flies through the damned thing. He doesn't need to upset its core.

No. Actually he was un-conscious, cut in half, missing most of his face and arm, and completely unconscious. In fact, if his father hadn't found him and the scientists on the ship hadn't given him cybernetic parts, he would have died floating in space. So basically if this is "tanking" a planet-buster, then I guess people who lose their limbs in grenade explosions "tank" them as well by your definition.

What is up with you and not understanding consciousness? Frieza is floating in space, half-dead, barely alive, with the eye he had left closed, and he's "conscious"; but when Prime gets knocked away for a panel, he's unconscious? I don't know what to say man.

None of those attacks destroyed a planet. Quit making things up.

Since when has Goku lifted 100 tons? As a ssj he had trouble with 40 tons.

I'm not impressed by any of this, and any version of Goku gets stomped by Superman.

You are clearly low balling. Do I have to make another theead proving you wrong?

Originally posted by Sirius77
He was gone for a panel. A panel carver. So do you think that characters have to be shown every panel or they're unconscious? What are you three?

An entire dialogue. Funny you should talk about long dialogue when debating DBZ characters.

Seriously, there was literally no evidence to even lend to the idea that he was KOed. He was only KOed twice in the entirety of countdown. In the beginning when he was warped atom by atom into the multiverse during the end of sc/ the beginning of countdown by a kamizaze attack from a guardian; and during the end in which he was KOed by the universe buster which is directly after the page that we're debating. So I don't see your point. I mean I know you're trying to lowball, but you're not really even doing it right. Hell if you want to lowball Prime, then pick something more well-known and legitimate, not this shit.

Just for me? Carv, I'm touched....

Seriously though, it still doesn't explain why they can't take being tossed into the sun. Also keep in mind, that Vegeta was wounded by Krillin. Thats how he even got strong enough to keep up with final stage Frieza.

It's basically established that "the weaker you are in DBZ, the more you are unable to effect someone with a higher Ki. The only reason Krillin was able to damage Vegeta is because Vegeta lowered his Ki (for someone that pretends to know DBZ, you should have known this).

Frieza couldn't scratch a Goku that stood in one spot allowing him to attqck him, and Frieza is millions of times more powerful than the Vegeta that had planetary power.

Nappa couldn't effect Vegeta.

Vegeta power did nothing to Frieza.

Ginyu Force couldn't do anything to Goku.

Piccolo couldn't do anything to Frieza.

The entire Z fighters minus Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta couldn't do anything to Cell. Hell, Cell tanked the destructo disk.

Do I need to continue?

As for your planetary comment. I answered that above. DBZ characters know how to read power levels. They can read it to the point that they can determine if a blast is capable of destroying planets, solar systems, etc, etc...Frieza withstood a planetary PLUS attack and did it with ease...the kamehameha Times 20. Then he survived the spirit bomb that was classified as bring planetary+ in power.

I relooked and he was unconcious but Goku was the one that damaged him, not the planet explosion. Even Frieza father stated that a measly planet explosion shouldn't do anything to Frieza.

Lol at you trying to lowball yet again. Goku has feats that puts him in the trillion of ton range in strength.

Goku had boulders tossed at him by Frieza that was moving at super speed and Goku dodged them without getting touched and it was NUMEROUS of them...he dodged them at Super speed.

Let's look at this and see what happens...

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/owned/Supermanv2134-16.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/owned/Supermanv2134-17.jpg

Knock out. Goku has withstood FAR more in a fight. Since you want to bring up strength and speed, trying to downplay stuff...let's see how you handle that buddy. Goku also was put in a similar situation and dodged all of those boulders.

Goku is a single sheet of one ply toilet paper and Superman is a messy butt. I think we can all surmise how the situation resolves itself.

Originally posted by -Pr-
Carver, as usual, you go too far.

Because he's obviously a hurt troll.
Can't users get banned in this site?

Originally posted by carver9
Goku had boulders tossed at him by Frieza that was moving at super speed and Goku dodged them without getting touched and it was NUMEROUS of them...he dodged them at Super speed.

Let's look at this and see what happens...

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/owned/Supermanv2134-16.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/owned/Supermanv2134-17.jpg

Knock out. Goku has withstood FAR more in a fight. Since you want to bring up strength and speed, trying to downplay stuff...let's see how you handle that buddy. Goku also was put in a similar situation and dodged all of those boulders.

I thought this thread was only Superman as in Superman from vol 2 not his alternate versions.

I'm closing this very soon. That moratorium on Goku threads is looking pretty good right now.

Originally posted by carver9
You are clearly low balling. Do I have to make another theead proving you wrong?

If you do make such a thread, it would be a first. You've never proved me wrong on this.

Originally posted by carver9
It's basically established that "the weaker you are in DBZ, the more you are unable to effect someone with a higher Ki. The only reason Krillin was able to damage Vegeta is because Vegeta lowered his Ki (for someone that pretends to know DBZ, you should have known this).

Frieza couldn't scratch a Goku that stood in one spot allowing him to attqck him, and Frieza is millions of times more powerful than the Vegeta that had planetary power.

Nappa couldn't effect Vegeta.

Vegeta power did nothing to Frieza.

Ginyu Force couldn't do anything to Goku.

Piccolo couldn't do anything to Frieza.

The entire Z fighters minus Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta couldn't do anything to Cell. Hell, Cell tanked the destructo disk.

Do I need to continue?

As for your planetary comment. I answered that above. DBZ characters know how to read power levels. They can read it to the point that they can determine if a blast is capable of destroying planets, solar systems, etc, etc...Frieza withstood a planetary PLUS attack and did it with ease...the kamehameha Times 20. Then he survived the spirit bomb that was classified as bring planetary+ in power.

I relooked and he was unconcious but Goku was the one that damaged him, not the planet explosion. Even Frieza father stated that a measly planet explosion shouldn't do anything to Frieza.

Lol at you trying to lowball yet again. Goku has feats that puts him in the trillion of ton range in strength.

In order for any of this to be valid, you'd have to first prove that these attacks were all Planet-busters.
You'd also have to prove why Buu was vaporized by every planet buster that he caused.

You'd also then have to prove why Frieza almost died by being exposed to his own planet buster (which he cheated at by disrupting the core). Oh and as for your comment dealing with Frieza's father, the colds also thought that saiyans were below them, and [The Colds] were unable to read power levels. Frieza himself, even being an experienced planet buster, miscalculated the amount of energy that it would take to disrupt Namek's core. There's also the fact that when it showed Frieza destroying planet Vegeta, he did so from a distance. The difference here was that he was literally lying on the planet. There was also a sense of urgency in the final battle, both he and Goku were trying to finish up as fast as they could before the planet exploded. Why would that be?

Then you'd have to explain why a single planet buster by stage one Frieza killed every Saiyan on Planet Vegeta except for Brolly and Paragras.

There has not been a single instance in all of DBZ of a character tanking a confirmed planet-buster through pure durability alone.

Superman has. Thor has. BRB has. Surfer has, etc. This is only one of the many reasons as to why they are individually superior to and win in battle against any version of Goku.

Also you're accusing me of low-balling when that's all that your argument consists of.... carv, read your posts man.

Originally posted by carver9
Goku had boulders tossed at him by Frieza that was moving at super speed and Goku dodged them without getting touched and it was NUMEROUS of them...he dodged them at Super speed.

Let's look at this and see what happens...

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/owned/Supermanv2134-16.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o106/bigbran1/owned/Supermanv2134-17.jpg

Knock out. Goku has withstood FAR more in a fight. Since you want to bring up strength and speed, trying to downplay stuff...let's see how you handle that buddy. Goku also was put in a similar situation and dodged all of those boulders.

So are you really saying that's all that it takes to knock out superman?

I suppose that a brick, a bat, or an armbar can take out surfer? I guess that stairs or thugs can take out Darkseid? The NYPD can take out thanos? I guess a rock can bruise ascended ssj Goku's head? Suddenly, an entire boulder doesn't seem so bad. Low feats and PIS instances are what they are, which is why we don't use them in arguments other than jokingly unless we are desperately grasping, like you are here.

And you accuse me of low balling?

Originally posted by Sirius77
In order for any of this to be valid, you'd have to first prove that these attacks were all Planet-busters.
You'd also have to prove why Buu was vaporized by every planet buster that he caused.

You'd also then have to prove why Frieza almost died by being exposed to his own planet buster (which he cheated at by disrupting the core). Oh and as for your comment dealing with Frieza's father, the colds also thought that saiyans were below them, and [The Colds] were unable to read power levels. Frieza himself, even being an experienced planet buster, miscalculated the amount of energy that it would take to disrupt Namek's core. There's also the fact that when it showed Frieza destroying planet Vegeta, he did so from a distance. The difference here was that he was literally lying on the planet. There was also a sense of urgency in the final battle, both he and Goku were trying to finish up as fast as they could before the planet exploded. Why would that be?

Then you'd have to explain why a single planet buster by stage one Frieza killed every Saiyan on Planet Vegeta except for Brolly and Paragras.

There has not been a single instance in all of DBZ of a character tanking a confirmed planet-buster through pure durability alone.

Superman has. Thor has. BRB has. Surfer has, etc. This is only [B]one of the many reasons as to why they are individually superior to and win in battle against any version of Goku.

Also you're accusing me of low-balling when that's all that your argument consists of.... carv, read your posts man. [/B]

I'm ignoring all of this because its pretty obvious you don't know the character. I posted a page where everyone states that Goku could tank a planetary attack with a smile on his face and these are from people that can't stand the character but has knowledge of DBZ. Believe what you want to believe but moon busting or planetary attacks doesn't even put a scratch on Gokus hide or a grin on Gokus face.

I'm ignoring this.

Originally posted by Sirius77
So are you really saying that's all that it takes to knock out superman?

I suppose that a brick, a bat, or an armbar can take out surfer? I guess that stairs or thugs can take out Darkseid? The NYPD can take out thanos? I guess a rock can bruise ascended ssj Goku's head? Suddenly, an entire boulder doesn't seem so bad. Low feats and PIS instances are what they are, which is why we don't use them in arguments other than jokingly unless we are desperately grasping, like you are here.

And you accuse me of low balling?

Naah, I dont think you are lowballing but you don't have knowledge of the characters at all.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm not responding to your post because I can't refute it, and even when I tricked a couple people into agreeing with me it still didn't help my argument. My bad man, Superman wins.

Fixed.

Originally posted by carver9
Naah, I dont think you are lowballing but you don't have knowledge of the characters at all.

So I'm low-balling, then I'm not. Then I don't have knowledge of the characters because I've posted an argument to which you have no rebuttal, and corrected you about instances concerning the characters that you claim that I don't know. Make up your mind man.

Also, just so that you know, I grew up watching DBZ on toonami just like everyone else. Age 4-16 and even beyond I was on that shit, and the fact that you're outright misconstruing pretty much everything that happened on that show just to get a win for Goku is ridiculous. Did you learn nothing from the show at all lol? Winning isn't winning unless it's fair, and making up things about characters so that they can win isn't a fair win, and in effect, it isn't a win at all. So if you do take one thing from Goku, take that.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Fixed.

So I'm low-balling, then I'm not. Then I don't have knowledge of the characters because I've posted an argument to which you have no rebuttal, and corrected you about instances concerning the characters that you claim that I don't know. Make up your mind man.

Also, just so that you know, I grew up watching DBZ on toonami just like everyone else. Age 4-16 and even beyond I was on that shit, and the fact that you're outright misconstruing pretty much everything that happened on that show just to get a win for Goku is ridiculous. Did you learn nothing from the show at all lol? Winning isn't winning unless it's fair, and making up things about characters so that they can win isn't a fair win, and in effect, it isn't a win at all. So if you do take one thing from Goku, take that.

Like I've said...you don't know what you are talking about. It's pretty much made plain and clear that DBZ characters knows how to read the level of power a blast can generate and now you are saying that when Goku is stating something could lay waste to a planet, he is lying. You are discrediting to much to aid in your argument. If Goku shot a blast that had enough power to shed a planet and then he shoots another blast that was basically 3 Times more powerful than this 'there is no discrediting the ft'. I'm done debating with you. You then say that the planet exploding on Frieza almost killed him when it was Goku final attack that almost killed him. Then you say that Frieza father didn't know what he was talking about when he said a planet exploding on Frieza shouldn't do a d*** thing to him.

What if I did what you did? Superman heat vision isn't as hot as a star. Do you agree or disagree. I can go on for days discrediting things if that's how you want to do it.

I'm done debating with you because "you don't know what you are talking about".

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Goku is a single sheet of one ply toilet paper and Superman is a messy butt. I think we can all surmise how the situation resolves itself.

Originally posted by carver9
Like I've said...you don't know what you are talking about. It's pretty much made plain and clear that DBZ characters knows how to read the level of power a blast can generate and now you are saying that when Goku is stating something could lay waste to a planet, he is lying. You are discrediting to much to aid in your argument. If Goku shot a blast that had enough power to shed a planet and then he shoots another blast that was basically 3 Times more powerful than this 'there is no discrediting the ft'. I'm done debating with you. You then say that the planet exploding on Frieza almost killed him when it was Goku final attack that almost killed him. Then you say that Frieza father didn't know what he was talking about when he said a planet exploding on Frieza shouldn't do a d*** thing to him.

Again, prove to me that every blast blocked was a confirmed planet-buster.

Ki blocking Ki isn't good enough. Show me a DBZ character physically tanking a planet-buster. You haven't done it because you can't.

Also if more Ki equals more durability, then why is it that Majin Buu, one of the most powerful, perhaps the most powerful (counting feats) in the series was vaporized by his own planet-buster along with Mystic Gohan?

Buu attempts to destroy the Earth, Goku says:

"That was close! He tried to destroy the
Earth! This is it Vegeta!"

and Vegeta responds:

"You *******! Are you suicidal or
something? No, even if he gets blown up,
he can regenerate."
http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz22/truman801/dragon-ball-72365.jpg
http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz22/truman801/dragon-ball-72366.jpg

Buu forms an even more powerful blast and Goku says:
"That's huge! I don't believe it! Is he really
going to throw that? We can't deflect that! No!!!
Buu don't do it! That'll destroy the Earth, don't
you want to fight us? ...I've got to save everyone...
Damn there's not enough time!"

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz22/truman801/dragon-ball-72367.jpg
http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz22/truman801/dragon-ball-72369.jpg
http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz22/truman801/dragon-ball-72371.jpg

Vegeta says in anger after the planet has been destroyed:
"Kakarot you bastard! Whyy'd you save
this idiot and his dog instead of Trunks?"

Vegeta is angry (and rightfully so) that Goku teleported Hercule instead of Trunks, Vegeta's only son, who is many, many, many times stronger than Frieza. Trunks, along with Mystic Gohan (the strongest unfused character in the series), Gotenks his brother, and every other planet buster on the planet at the time including Buu died when the planet exploded.

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz22/truman801/dragon-ball-72372.jpg

Also, just to confirm that Majin Buu was destroyed, here is him regenerating from nothing after the blast. Good regen feat though, kind of like void or something, even if all it took was a planet-buster.

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz22/truman801/dragon-ball-72377.jpg

Originally posted by carver9
What if I did what you did? Superman heat vision isn't as hot as a star. Do you agree or disagree. I can go on for days discrediting things if that's how you want to do it.

I'm done debating with you because "you don't know what you are talking about".

You can debate with me like that all you want. Because not every HV is as hot as a star. Some are hotter, some are colder, but he has a multitude of other options, so do what you want carv.

Vegeta said twice that Majin Buu would be destroyed, and then reprimanded Goku for letting his son die. This was a planet buster at the end of the series when everyone was at the height of their power, and they still died from it.

Power level doesn't equal durability.

Originally posted by Sirius77
Again, prove to me that every blast blocked was a confirmed planet-buster.

Ki blocking Ki isn't good enough. Show me a DBZ character physically tanking a planet-buster. You haven't done it because you can't.

Also if more Ki equals more durability, then why is it that Majin Buu, one of the most powerful, perhaps the most powerful (counting feats) in the series was vaporized by his own planet-buster along with Mystic Gohan?

Buu attempts to destroy the Earth, Goku says:

"That was close! He tried to destroy the
Earth! This is it Vegeta!"

and Vegeta responds:

"You *******! Are you [B]suicidal or
something? No, even if he gets blown up,
he can regenerate."
http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz22/truman801/dragon-ball-72365.jpg
http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz22/truman801/dragon-ball-72366.jpg

Buu forms an even more powerful blast and Goku says:
"That's huge! I don't believe it! Is he really
going to throw that? We can't deflect that! No!!!
Buu don't do it! That'll destroy the Earth, don't
you want to fight us? ...I've got to save everyone...
Damn there's not enough time!"

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz22/truman801/dragon-ball-72367.jpg
http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz22/truman801/dragon-ball-72369.jpg
http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz22/truman801/dragon-ball-72371.jpg

Vegeta says in anger after the planet has been destroyed:
"Kakarot you bastard! Whyy'd you save
this idiot and his dog instead of Trunks?"

Vegeta is angry (and rightfully so) that Goku teleported Hercule instead of Trunks, Vegeta's only son, who is many, many, many times stronger than Frieza. Trunks, along with Mystic Gohan (the strongest unfused character in the series), Gotenks his brother, and every other planet buster on the planet at the time including Buu died when the planet exploded.

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz22/truman801/dragon-ball-72372.jpg

Also, just to confirm that Majin Buu was destroyed, here is him regenerating from nothing after the blast. Good regen feat though, kind of like void or something, even if all it took was a planet-buster.

http://i810.photobucket.com/albums/zz22/truman801/dragon-ball-72377.jpg

You can debate with me like that all you want. Because not every HV is as hot as a star. Some are hotter, some are colder, but he has a multitude of other options, so do what you want carv. [/B]

Sirius, you ARE a very cool guy to me but you make it so hard for me not to scream at you.

Where do I start? The first small blast that Buu shot was a planet buster...Vegeta deflected this small planet buster with ease. Are you going to sit here and tell me that the second huge, big a** blast was the same in power as the first blast that Buu shot that was deflected by Vegeta? Use that noggin. The blast was MUCH more than planetary...Vegeta was in fear of his HOME being destroyed.

Another thing...if you don't believe that every blast Frieza used against Goku isn't >>>>> the anything that Roshi created, anything that Nappa created than something is wrong with you. The planet being destroyed is a side affect of their power...Buu power killed Gohan, not the planet explosion. Cell power killed Goku, not the planets explosion. Vegeta during the Saiyan saga can't dream of hurting Goku during the Namek saga and this is what you are failing to understand. It has NOTHING to do with the planet destruction, especially when beings that are ants to Goku are capable of destroying planets with their finger tips (but still unable to damage Goku).

Why didnt the Galaxy blow up when Thanos fought Odin? Why didn't the planet explode when Doomsday killed Superman? Hell, Doctor Light koed Superman with a casual blast that didn't even destroy the room the blast took place at. Stop basing everything off of collateral damage. The destructo disk is one of the most powerful attacks in DBZ and it doesn't do anything to the surrounding area...the special beam cannon is the same.

Your argument is LAME...like I've said...Vegeta tanked Nappa continent destroying blast because he was more powerful. Nail unleashed on Frieza and he couldn't even get his smile off his face because he was to powerful. This goes on all the way through DBZ.

Lol at you using kid Buu who was created to be rubbery and thrive off of his regeneration. Buu was CREATED by magic.

Prove that Superman heat vision is hotter than a star. I want you to also prove that heat vision is light speed.

By the way, I never said that every attack Goku blocked was planetary but I believe that every blast used against Goku by Frieza is far greater than Vegeta Gallick gun that had enough power to shed earth and Roshi moon busting attack.

If collateral damage is your only argument then I promise you this will not go well for you.

Originally posted by StyleTime
😂 If we had a like button, I'd click it.