superman vs. goku

Originally posted by Sirius77
Vegeta said twice that Majin Buu would be destroyed, and then reprimanded Goku for letting his son die. This was a planet buster at the end of the series when everyone was at the height of their power, and they still died from it.

Power level doesn't equal durability.

Sorry, but this is wrong.

Power level correlates to all physical aspects for a total. Roughly. Durability is included.

Goku couldn't tank a damn thing from final form Freeza. Whereas Goku when he went Super Saiyan was tanking several blasts like nothing. SSJ Goku also tanked a death beam to the face, whereas Freeza casually killed Vegeta with one earlier.

And collateral damage size alone in DBZ alone means nothing. Or else that would mean that Nappa's multiple city busting two finger attack, would be able to damage Fat Buu (since Vegeta's self destruct was no bigger than Nappa's casual blast). But of course that wouldn't work, afterall, Nappa was in the middle of his multi-city busting blast and he didn't even damage his own suit, whereas later when fighting the Z-fighters, Tien's one handed blasted that covered an area nowhere near as big, was able to visibly scratch Nappa and damage his armor. And not all planet busting explosions are made equal either.

And even realistically thought out, it would still make sense;

Take two explosions, one is twice as wide. Is it also twice as powerful? No. It would actually be more like 8 times more powerful. So yes, one explosion can be only a little bit bigger but multiple times more powerful.

Anyway. Carry on. Just wanted to address this misconception. Superman stomps.

Originally posted by carver9
Sirius, you ARE a very cool guy to me but you make it so hard for me not to scream at you.

Where do I start? The first small blast that Buu shot was a planet buster...Vegeta deflected this small planet buster with ease. Are you going to sit here and tell me that the second huge, big a** blast was the same in power as the first blast that Buu shot that was deflected by Vegeta? Use that noggin. The blast was MUCH more than planetary...Vegeta was in fear of his HOME being destroyed.

First off, it wasn't Vegeta that deflected the blast. It was Goku.

Also, if it was more than a planet-buster, then why did it just destroy a planet? Maybe you should use your noggin carv.

Originally posted by carver9
Another thing...if you don't believe that every blast Frieza used against Goku isn't >>>>> the anything that Roshi created, anything that Nappa created than something is wrong with you. The planet being destroyed is a side affect of their power...Buu power killed Gohan, not the planet explosion. Cell power killed Goku, not the planets explosion. Vegeta during the Saiyan saga can't dream of hurting Goku during the Namek saga and this is what you are failing to understand. It has NOTHING to do with the planet destruction, especially when beings that are ants to Goku are capable of destroying planets with their finger tips (but still unable to damage Goku).

Again, if you believe that power-level is directly linked with physical durability, then it is your responsibility to find at least one instance in which a planet buster hasn't killed everyone on the planet. As in raw durability. You haven't done so. They've either deflected the blasts or something similar. Never taken it head on with raw durability like Superman, Thor, Surfer, or similar characters have. In fact, planet busters rank among the lesser damage that these characters have taken.

Originally posted by carver9
Why didnt the Galaxy blow up when Thanos fought Odin?

Because they weren't using galaxy busting power out-put, because that's not what's needed against thanos.

[QUOTE=13678797]Originally posted by carver9
Why didn't the planet explode when Doomsday killed Superman?

Because that was Byrnes era superman, and the kinetic energy released by a punch from Byrnes era superman is laughable compared to one from New Earth Superman.

Originally posted by carver9
Hell, Doctor Light koed Superman with a casual blast that didn't even destroy the room the blast took place at. Stop basing everything off of collateral damage. The destructo disk is one of the most powerful attacks in DBZ and it doesn't do anything to the surrounding area...the special beam cannon is the same.

I love it how you use low feats to back you argument carv.

An exploding planet is what it is. If it destroyed a galaxy or something then we would have something to go on. If all we saw was a planet buster, then we can assume that is what it was. To say "NO WAY MAN THAT THING HAD TO BE A GALAXY BUSTER BECAUSE WELL....... IT WAS BIGGER, SO MORE POWERFULLERRRR!!!!!" isn't a very rational argument. So we should go by what we know, and not by what we extrapolate.

What we know is that Superman, surfer, and thor and characters similar to them have taken trips through stars and been next to them when they exploded and survived often with nothing but a quick KO. This is not extrapolation. This is a fact that was established on panel. Goku or anyone from his universe cannot make this claim.

Originally posted by carver9
Your argument is LAME...like I've said...Vegeta tanked Nappa continent destroying blast because he was more powerful. Nail unleashed on Frieza and he couldn't even get his smile off his face because he was to powerful. This goes on all the way through DBZ.

That blast didn't destroy a continent. Quit making things up.

Also, not to belabor the point, but at what point in this instance did any of Nail's blasts destroy Namek? He was obviously using attacks with less than planet-destroying power because if he didn't, he would have destroyed his own planet. As you said before, they can sense powerlevels (especially Nameks) and know which blast is going to bust a planet, so with this said, Frieza was not being hit with planet-busting attacks from Nail. Nice to know. Thank you for proving what I've been saying all along. Not every attack is a planet-buster.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol at you using kid Buu who was created to be rubbery and thrive off of his regeneration. Buu was CREATED by magic.

Great argument, because Gohan wasn't. Wait... wasn't he on the planet that got busted? What happened to that guy? Oh yeah. He died on the exploding planet. He didn't seem rubbery or magical to me.

Originally posted by carver9
Prove that Superman heat vision is hotter than a star. I want you to also prove that heat vision is light speed.

Because it goes straight through beings that fly through stars.

Who knows, what relevance does the speed of superman's hv have? The flash outran it, but then again, he outruns light. Sometimes it's written as light and sometimes it's written as a plot device. Look it up.

Originally posted by carver9
By the way, I never said that every attack Goku blocked was planetary but I believe that every blast used against Goku by Frieza is far greater than Vegeta Gallick gun that had enough power to shed earth and Roshi moon busting attack.

So then translation:

"I don't believe that every blast between Frieza and Goku was a planet-buster, except I totally do."

Originally posted by carver9
If collateral damage is your only argument then I promise you this will not go well for you.

It isn't. And so far its gone pretty decent for me. I'm pretty comfortable carv.

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Sorry, but this is wrong.

Power level correlates to all physical aspects for a total. Roughly. Durability is included.

Goku couldn't tank a damn thing from final form Freeza. Whereas Goku when he went Super Saiyan was tanking several blasts like nothing. SSJ Goku also tanked a death beam to the face, whereas Freeza casually killed Vegeta with one earlier.

And collateral damage size alone in DBZ alone means nothing. Or else that would mean that Nappa's multiple city busting two finger attack, would be able to damage Fat Buu (since Vegeta's self destruct was no bigger than Nappa's casual blast). But of course that wouldn't work, afterall, Nappa was in the middle of his multi-city busting blast and he didn't even damage his own suit, whereas later when fighting the Z-fighters, Tien's one handed blasted that covered an area nowhere near as big, was able to visibly scratch Nappa and damage his armor. And not all planet busting explosions are made equal either.

And even realistically thought out, it would still make sense;

Take two explosions, one is twice as wide. Is it also twice as powerful? No. It would actually be more like 8 times more powerful. So yes, one explosion can be only a little bit bigger but multiple times more powerful.

Anyway. Carry on. Just wanted to address this misconception. Superman stomps.

I see what you're saying, and I can understand the logic behind it, but what I'm trying to say is that just because you can destroy a planet doesn't mean that you can tank a planet-buster. Majin Buu, Gohan and everyone else on the planet at the time proved this. So in other words, power output isn't necessarily equal to power resistance.

Originally posted by Sirius77
I see what you're saying, and I can understand the logic behind it, but what I'm trying to say is that just because you can destroy a planet doesn't mean that you can tank a planet-buster. Majin Buu, Gohan and everyone else on the planet at the time proved this. So in other words, power output isn't necessarily equal to power resistance.

What I am saying is that the weakest of beings were Planet busters and they were incapable of causing damage towards people far stronger than them. What I am also telling you is "a planet doesn't have to always explode for blast A to be as powerful as blast B". That would mean that Surfer generates far more power than Thanos since Thanos never demonstrated planet busting power via blasting someone.

Goku would tank anything Roshi threw at him because he is far more powerful and that include Roshi moon buster. Roshi even admitted that he didnt have enough power to damage King Piccolo and again, Roshi has destroyed moons. I don't get what's so hard to understand about this.

Frieza used .025% of his power and disintegrated planet Vegeta and he fought Goku and was MILLIONS of Times more powerful and Goku stood in one spot and allow Frieza to unleash on him. Are you telling me that since Planet Namek didnt explode, first form Frieza can generate far more power than Final form Frieza? The same Frieza that unleashed on Goku?

Examples of non-collateral damage scenes.

Doomsday elbows Superman and then ram his head into a mountain koing him. No collateral damage

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/juggernaut666666/6-9.jpg

They fight again. Doomsday spins Superman around and ram his head into some pillars koing him.

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/juggernaut666666/3-12.jpg
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o97/juggernaut666666/4-10.jpg

I can post more if you want.

By the way, this wouldn't even have tickled Goku at his weakest.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/9221/guardiansofthegalaxyv22.jpg
http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/9221/guardiansofthegalaxyv22.jpg

Originally posted by CosmicComet
Sorry, but this is wrong.

Power level correlates to all physical aspects for a total. Roughly. Durability is included.

Goku couldn't tank a damn thing from final form Freeza. Whereas Goku when he went Super Saiyan was tanking several blasts like nothing. SSJ Goku also tanked a death beam to the face, whereas Freeza casually killed Vegeta with one earlier.

And collateral damage size alone in DBZ alone means nothing. Or else that would mean that Nappa's multiple city busting two finger attack, would be able to damage Fat Buu (since Vegeta's self destruct was no bigger than Nappa's casual blast). But of course that wouldn't work, afterall, Nappa was in the middle of his multi-city busting blast and he didn't even damage his own suit, whereas later when fighting the Z-fighters, Tien's one handed blasted that covered an area nowhere near as big, was able to visibly scratch Nappa and damage his armor. And not all planet busting explosions are made equal either.

And even realistically thought out, it would still make sense;

Take two explosions, one is twice as wide. Is it also twice as powerful? No. It would actually be more like 8 times more powerful. So yes, one explosion can be only a little bit bigger but multiple times more powerful.

Anyway. Carry on. Just wanted to address this misconception. Superman stomps.

This is what he doesn't understand and its sad. He is basically saying Vegeta planet buster=Frieza planet buster=Cell planet buster. His argument is terrible and I am done discussing it. If Nappa, who blast was seen outside of Earth was unable to even scratch Vegeta but we have a Vegeta that is far more powerful (who tanked a blast that laid waste to a city) couldn't even withstand a casual attack from Frieza, that alone should tell you which is more powerful. Im done debating against him because he is terrible. If he truly bekieves Roshi could have defeated Frieza, if he truly believe Saiyan Saga Vegeta could defeat a Super Saiyan with his Gallick gun, then our argument is done. They could have easily used Roshi as a sneak attqck against Nappa with his moon busting power if that's all it took. Roshi wasnt there because he wasn't powerful enough.

Collateral damage for the win. Lolololol...and also lol at Sirius brushing everything off as low showings. Have fun debating against yourself.

And we're done. Closing for many reasons.