Originally posted by DARTH POWER
A reboot is never going to Top Nolan's Batman. Chances are it won't even come close.I don't see how mediocre Batman franchise on top of a mediocre Superman and a Flop Green Lantern is going to help a JL movie in any way shape or form.
Yeah thing is most people don't give a crap whether Batman invents his own stuff, or if Lucius does it for him. It's too unbelievable for a movie that Batman on top of everything else is some whizz Inventor.
That's a really good point.
And it would help if the last Batman audiences remember is Nolan's and not some mediocre reboot.
I think the biggest problem with Nolan Batman is that he isn't a genius, a great detective, and a master fighter like his comic self. Let's face it, Scarlet's Black Widow is more skilled than Bale Batman.
In a JLA, what would Batman do if a villain blew up the Bike, The Tumbler, or The Bat? Then what? He doesn't have the skill to fix it on the spot. He medicore fighting skills would be more useless than Cap Vs Loki against any metahumas or androids. In with mobility, this Batman rarely uses grapplers to across the city.
The only way this would work is if Bale Batman is packing so serious arsenal of mini gadgets on him: sonics bombs, EMP bombs, smoke bombs, sleeping gas, etc. Most of these are plausible to Bale Batman and give him any chance in a JLA movie against metas and androids. His strategy for finding Bane was to ask Catwoman. He used Fox's device to track down Joker. It works but he is not the great detective, genius, super-skilled fighter that comics Batman is - the type of Batman that is useful to the JLA.
What they need from JLA Batman is a cross between Downey Stark (intelligence), Scarlet Widow (hth skill), Renner Hawkeye (accuracy), and Evans Captain America (stamina).
Originally posted by NewjakSpoiler:
Bane was part of the league of shadows and was trained. Bane even uses that to mock Batman at one point saying his tactics and flare are useless against him. The point being that Nolan pretty much established that no matter what Batman brought to the fight he was gonna lose. You can point to such and such device and say that 'COULD' have helped Batman that doesn't mean it would have made him any more effective.The whole point of the scene was that no matter what Batman was going to bring he was going to lose. He throws Tranq Batarangs Bane was gonna dodge.
Batman tries to hit him with one in his hand. Bane would have grabbed his arm and made him drop them.
And if we are going by what could have happened Bane could have simply pulled out a gun and shot Bruce if he wanted to.
But I think that the main point is this.
Batman was A) unprepared for Bane to just basically get Catwoman to trick him.
and B) The scene was shown to depict that batman was going to lose that fight because Bane was his better.
Nolan could have extended the scene by 20 minutes and shown Batman using every single one of his toys against Bane if you wanted but the outcome was always going to be the same.
EDIT: Putting everything in spoiler tags for the benefit of people who haven't seen the movie 😛
You're missing the point. Ever since we found out that Bane was gonna be in TDKR...it has been the most anticipated fight every Bat fan has been hanging out for. 4 years of waiting since TDK.
We knew by comic canon that Batman would be defeated by Bane & it was with this knowledge that we wanted to see Bats give everything he had, every skill he mastered & every weapon he had be used in battle.
Originally posted by the ninjak
If you can't perceive a better Batman film than the Nolan ones, films where the Batman is more like his comic and animated counterparts.
Yeah because every Batman reboot now is guaranteed to be a Billion dollar franchise right??
Originally posted by the ninjak
A Batman that can hang with the JLA, then any words I write will be lost on you.
Bale Batman was supposed to be a top ass ninja. Surely you gathered that much from the movie. He's also a great detective with a whole load of money and technology at his disposal. Oh and seriously cool, useful (
Spoiler:) vehicles.
nuclear bomb saving
So yeah he can hang. If you want a Batman with a jet pack, laser weapons and a Superman beating BatBot then your asking for a Batman flop.
If Black Widow, Hawkeye and Captain America can hang with Avengers then I see no reason why Bale Batman can't hang with the JL.
QUOTE=13951068]Originally posted by the ninjak
GRITTY REALISM AND LAME ASS CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT WON'T CUT IT IN THE JLA.
I understand......you're on a fanboy high. I get it. [/QUOTE]
And you think a JL movie with nothing going for it but mediocre reboots (most likely) and a flop GL movie is going to be a big hit movie on an Avengers scale??
Yeah good luck with that wish.
I heard all this same crap before Avengers. That Cap, Iron Man and Hulk can't hang with Thor. It's all rubbish.
What you need to make it work is a huge hit. Avengers had Iron Man. JL could have really used Nolan's Batman.
Originally posted by Esau CairnI got your point and it was totally unrealistic in some aspects.
You're missing the point. Ever since we found out that Bane was gonna be in TDKR...it has been the most anticipated fight every Bat fan has been hanging out for. 4 years of waiting since TDK.
We knew by comic canon that Batman would be defeated by Bane & it was with this knowledge that we wanted to see Bats give everything he had, every skill he mastered & every weapon he had be used in battle.
I can understand if you say didn't like the choreography, that style of filmed fighting isn't for everyone.(I did enjoy it)
I just don't know what you mean by learned skills? He didn't really learn any knew 'skills' since his training with Ras. And he pretty much showed the same batman style beat up multiple thugs at once ability as he always did.
So I don't know if you were expecting Batman to be doing hardcore flips around Bane or some crazy martial arts he has never done before, but that is just you not being realistic.
And it's unrealistic to expect Batman to use every single gadget he ever used in all the films in one fight. First off he that means he would have had to been carrying them all and some of them were kind of bulky.
Secondly the fight would have gotten so repetitive. Batman tries to use gadget A and it fails, Batman uses gadget B and it fails, Batman uses gadget C and it fails, and so on and so on.
It would have been a 20 minute fight of nothing but that.
Like I said I can understand fight choreography, I can understand tone, I can understand execution of the scene but the things you are complaining about were never gonna happen nor would any decent director introduce a bunch of needless filler to pad a fight in a movie that was already pushing a very long running time.
Nolan used the fight to demonstrate one main point.
1) Bane is a massive threat that Batman can not take head on or take lightly.
Imo he did that quite well.
Spoiler:
Nolan had Batman try to disorient Bane with LOS flare and tactics and had Bane laugh them off. Nolan had Batman try to use the shadows and fear of the unknown which are supposed to be Batman's biggest weapon. Bane straight reversed it. Nolan had Batman use his most core concepts and abilities against Bane and Bane systemically broke down the core of what Batman built himself up to be. In my opinion Nolan did a great job showcasing that. You can disagree with that but like I said you were never gonna get a long drawn out fight between the two with Batman using every gadget ever like you wanted.
Originally posted by DARTH POWERAnd you think a JL movie with nothing going for it but mediocre reboots (most likely) and a flop GL movie is going to be a big hit movie on an Avengers scale??
What you need to make it work is a huge hit. Avengers had Iron Man. JL could have really used Nolan's Batman.
I think that the Justice League movie isn't going to do as good as the Avengers anyways. Part of its success comes from being the first of it's kind. Now it's been done and people are in wait for #2. Most people will be like "meh it's gonna be an Avengers copy".
Also the comic book version of Batman would totally wreck bale batman so to have him in the JL movie they would have probably ruined him by making him do things that would have been unrealistic. What place would he serve when he couldn't fight like Superman,Wonder Woman,Flash. Maybe he would be needed to use his brain but he couldn't just call up Morgan Freeman. So they would have to make him start using gadgets that could never happen, fight like no one ever could, and be smarter then he was. It would change his entire character. Though I will say the success of nolans films popularity would have helped.
Originally posted by BlackZero30x
Also the comic book version of Batman would totally wreck bale batman so to have him in the JL movie they would have probably ruined him by making him do things that would have been unrealistic.
Exactly. They could make him fit into the JL movie by tweaking him, but by doing so they would lose something that made Nolan's Batfilms great. They would make him unrealistic.
http://www.examiner.com/article/bane-creator-happy-with-the-character-dark-knight-rises
Find that surprising given some fans' initial disapproval of the portrayal.
Originally posted by NewjakSpoiler:[/B]
Nolan had Batman try to disorient Bane with LOS flare and tactics and had Bane laugh them off. Nolan had Batman try to use the shadows and fear of the unknown which are supposed to be Batman's biggest weapon. Bane straight reversed it. Nolan had Batman use his most core concepts and abilities against Bane and Bane systemically broke down the core of what Batman built himself up to be. In my opinion Nolan did a great job showcasing that. You can disagree with that but like I said you were never gonna get a long drawn out fight between the two with Batman using every gadget ever like you wanted.
Have you ever seen that short feature on Youtube...Bats Vs The Joker Vs The predator Vs...?
A wannabe director/actor put that feature together for only a couple thousand dollars.
What he achieved in those few minutes with such a small budget is something Nolan could've paid attention to when it came to Batman's mythos & fighting abilities.
On that same note, Rodigruez had his action down pat on Sin City as well as Snyder on 300...sequences I would've loved to see Bats fight in.
Originally posted by Ridley_Prime
http://www.examiner.com/article/bane-creator-happy-with-the-character-dark-knight-risesFind that surprising given some fans' initial disapproval of the portrayal.
Bar the alterations to his origin/nationality, I thought he was perfect, tbh. The lack of venom didn't really bother me.
Originally posted by Newjak
I got your point and it was totally unrealistic in some aspects.I can understand if you say didn't like the choreography, that style of filmed fighting isn't for everyone.(I did enjoy it)
I just don't know what you mean by learned skills? He didn't really learn any knew 'skills' since his training with Ras. And he pretty much showed the same batman style beat up multiple thugs at once ability as he always did.
So I don't know if you were expecting Batman to be doing hardcore flips around Bane or some crazy martial arts he has never done before, but that is just you not being realistic.
And it's unrealistic to expect Batman to use every single gadget he ever used in all the films in one fight. First off he that means he would have had to been carrying them all and some of them were kind of bulky.
Secondly the fight would have gotten so repetitive. Batman tries to use gadget A and it fails, Batman uses gadget B and it fails, Batman uses gadget C and it fails, and so on and so on.
It would have been a 20 minute fight of nothing but that.
Like I said I can understand fight choreography, I can understand tone, I can understand execution of the scene but the things you are complaining about were never gonna happen nor would any decent director introduce a bunch of needless filler to pad a fight in a movie that was already pushing a very long running time.
Nolan used the fight to demonstrate one main point.
1) Bane is a massive threat that Batman can not take head on or take lightly.
Imo he did that quite well.
Spoiler:
Nolan had Batman try to disorient Bane with LOS flare and tactics and had Bane laugh them off. Nolan had Batman try to use the shadows and fear of the unknown which are supposed to be Batman's biggest weapon. Bane straight reversed it. Nolan had Batman use his most core concepts and abilities against Bane and Bane systemically broke down the core of what Batman built himself up to be. In my opinion Nolan did a great job showcasing that. You can disagree with that but like I said you were never gonna get a long drawn out fight between the two with Batman using every gadget ever like you wanted.
I'd actually say that the biggest problem with the fight is that Bane seemed to lose all of his ability to fight during the big brawl at the end. Bane was all over the place and had an answer for everything Batman through at him in the first fight. In the second fight when how does Batman overcome Bane's skill? He just punches him in the mask repeatedly with haymakers. Really? Why didn't he think of that in the first place? 🙄
Originally posted by MythI was talking abut the first fight. It's hard to tell from the first sentence if you knew that or not so I just wanted to clarify in case 😛
I'd actually say that the biggest problem with the fight is that Bane seemed to lose all of his ability to fight during the big brawl at the end. Bane was all over the place and had an answer for everything Batman through at him in the first fight. In the second fight when how does Batman overcome Bane's skill? He just punches him in the mask repeatedly with haymakers. Really? Why didn't he think of that in the first place? 🙄
As for the second I agree to some extent. I would have liked it to have matched the first one in intensity, as for the mask though:
Spoiler:
I think Bruce learned in the Pitt the Mask was keeping Bane in fighting condition and without it he would lose his strength quickly. It's a nod to his old venom weakness where Batman would break his tubes and Bane would lose his great strength.
But yeah Bane was the best part of the movie for me.
Anyone seen the stuff about the Joker for this movies Novelization??
http://splashpage.mtv.com/2012/07/26/joker-dark-knight-rises-novel/