Originally posted by TheGodKiller
I had a similar discussion with srank on the Versus forum . IMO , its pretty obvious that this event is more of the Avengers' fault than the X-Men . If anything , the Avengers came out looking the bigger douchebags , and the true villains , despite the underdog wankery that Marvel put them through .
The X-man are just as at fault putting all their faith in a Cosmic parasite which they know what its capable of and putting the planet at risk.
Originally posted by Kazenji
The X-man are just as at fault putting all their faith in a Cosmic parasite which they know what its capable of and putting the planet at risk.
Originally posted by "Id"
UNIT is the most dangerous robot in the galaxy previously held by SWORD he activated an epic prison break that united the Xmen and Avengers before the Phoenix activated.
When The Xteams and Avengers fought UNIT held back Hope's friends on Utopia knowing that an old holder of the Fist had her friends around her to realise that releasing the Phoenix was a better choice than trying to harness it. Unit knew this and used Danger to beat them up.
At least that's how I remembered it.
So if it wasn't for UNIT Hope would've harnessed the PF/
Question is was Hope wise enough yet to make the choice of expelling it whilst on the moon?
Originally posted by JakeTheBankIn Uncanny XMen #510 Phoenix Jean Grey had went to Emma and gave her a vision .. whatever became of this? Emma briefly remembered Jeans vision at the end of Second Coming but than that was it...?
Cyclops and the X-Men jumped the shark completely.Cap and the Avengers were being reasonable as far as Hope's involvement was, but Cyke someone got it into his head that this time, the Phoenix Force would be a good thing and not turn them all into psychos.
This event pretty much made the mutant community look like self serving bastards and the X-Men are easily (and rightfully) vilified in the conflict.
Updated list:
Avenger wins:
Beast, Black Panther, Captain America, Daredevil, Dr.Strange, Falcon, Quicksilver, Rulk, Scarlet Witch, Thing, Thor, Valkeyrie, & Vision beats Namor (Pheonix powered [P5]) (AvX #8)
Black Panther beats Storm (Uncanny X-Men #13)
Black Widow beats Dr.Nemesis (Uncanny X-Men #13) *Happened off-panel
Captain America beats Cyclops (AvX #2)
Captain America beats Cyclops* (AvX Vs #6) *Comical verbal fight (not canon)[/b]
Captain America beats Gambit (AvX Versus #2/AvX #4/Wolverine & the X-Men #11)
Captain America beats Warpath (AvX #4)
Hawkeye beats Angel (AvX Versus #5) *Angel stopped fighting as Hawkeye threatened to shoot Psylocke, and then when his guard was down shot Angel
Iron Man beats Magneto (AvX Versus #1)
Iron Man droid beats Cannonball (X-Men Legacy #267)
Iron Man droid beats Frenzy (X-Men Legacy #267)
Iron Man droid beats Gambit (X-Men Legacy #267)
Iron Man droid beats Mimic (X-Men Legacy #267)
Iron Man droid beats Shadowcat (X-Men Legacy #267)
Jarvis beats Toad (AvX #6) *Toad was mind-controlled and non-canon...I hope
Rulk beats Colossnaut (Uncanny X-Men #11 & AvX #2) *Colossnaut lost intentionally
Rulk beats Psylocke (Uncanny X-Men #13)
Scarlet Witch beats Magik (Phoenix powered [P5]) (AvX #7)
Scarlet Witch beats Namor (Phoenix powered [P5) (AvX #7)
She Hulk beats Hepzibah (Uncanny X-Men #12)
Thing beats Namor (AvX Versus #1)
Thing beats Sunspot (Uncanny X-Men #12)
Wolverine beats Kid Gladiator (Wolverine and the X-Men #12)
X-Men Wins:
Angel beats Warmachine (Wolverine and the X-Men #12)
Colossnaut beats Spider-Man (AvX Versus #2) *Spider-Man just left
Colossnaut beats Thing (AvX Versus#3)
Cyclops (Pheonix powered [P5]) beats Thor (AvX #3)
Cyclops (Pheonix powered [P2]) beats Hawkeye & Thing (AvX #10) (Oh and rocks Thor at the same time 😉)
Cyclops (Pheonix powered [P2]) beats Iron Fist (AvX #10)
Cyclops (Pheonix powered [P2]) beats Iron Man (AvX #10)
Cyclops (Pheonix powered [P2]) beats Iron Man (AvX #10) *Alternate probability
Cyclops (Pheonix powered [P2]) beats Scarlet Witch (AvX #10)
Cyclops (Pheonix powered [P2]) beats Shao Lao (Infant) (AvX #10)
Cyclops (Pheonix powered [P2]) beats Thor (AvX #10) *Alternate probability
Cyclops (Pheonix powered [P2]) beats Wolverine (AvX #10) *Alternate probability
Cyclops (Pheonix powered [P2]) beats White Queen (Pheonix powered [P2] (AvX #11)
Cyclops (Pheonix powered [Full]) beats Magneto (Uncanny X-Men #19)
Cyclops (Pheonix powered [Full]) kills Professor X (AvX #11, Uncanny X-Men #19)
Cyclops (Pheonix powered [Full]) beats Havok, Hulk, Iron Man, Nova, Thing, Thor (AvX #12) *neither through BFR or KO
Cyclops (Pheonix powered [Full]) beats Wolverine (AvX #11, Uncanny X-Men #19)
Domino beats Rulk (AvX #6) *Non-canon...I hope
Dr.Nemesis beats Quicksilver (AvX #2)
Havok beats Captain America (AvX Vs #6) *non-canon, Havok wasnt shown actually winning. X-Men editors did the book so they automatically declared him the winner (no, not kidding)
Havok & Polaris beats Vision (AvX #7)
Hope beats Scarlet Witch (AvX Vs #6) *Sucker punch
Hope beats Wolverine (AvX #2)
Iceman beats Iron Fist (AvX Vs #6)
Kid Gladiator beats Giant-Man (Wolverine and the X-Men #12)
Kid Gladiator beats Quicksilver (Wolverine and the X-Men #12)
Magik beats Black Widow (AvX Versus #3)
Magik beats Dr.Strange (AvX #2-3)
Magik (Pheonix powered [P5]) beats Ms.Marvel (X-Men Legacy #270)
Magik (Pheonix powered [P4]) & Colossus (Pheonix powered [P4]) beats Spider-Man (AvX #9)
Magik (Pheonix powered [P4]) & Colossus (Pheonix powered [P4]) beats Thor (AvX #9)
Namor beats Cage (Uncanny X-Men #12)
Namor (Pheonix powered [P5]) beats Thor (Wolverine and the X-Men #12, Avengers #29)
Namor (Pheonix powered [P5]) beats Thor (AvX #8)
Namor (Pheonix powered [P5]) & Colossus (Pheonix powered [P5]) beats Gladiator (Wolverine and the X-Men #13)
Rachel Summers beats Black Widow (Wolverine and the X-Men #12, Avengers #29)
Rogue beats Falcon (X-Men Legacy #267)
Rogue beats Iron Man droid (X-Men Legacy #267)
Rogue beats Moon Knight (X-Men Legacy #267) *MK lost intentionally
Rogue beats Ms.Marvel (X-Men Legacy #269)
Rogue beats She Hulk (X-Men Legacy #267)
White Queen (Pheonix powered [P5]) beats Hawkeye (AvX #7)
White Queen (Pheonix powered [P5]) beats Sentinel (Juston Seyfort) (Avengers Academy #33)
White Queen (Pheonix powered [P5]) beats Thor (AvX Versus #4)
Stalemates:
Avengers Science Team (Black Panter, Hank Pym, Iron Man, Leonardo Da Vinci) vs. X-Club (Beast, Broo, Dr. Kavita Rao, Dr.Nemesis,Madison Jeffries) (AvX Vs. #6) *non-canon
Beast vs. Iceman (Wolverine and the X-Men #12)
Black Panther vs. Storm (AvX Versus #5)
Captain America vs. Rachel Summers (Wolverine and the X-Men #12)
Captain America vs. Wolverine (AvX #3)
Daredevil vs. Psylocke (AvX Versus #4)
Gladiator vs. Cyclops (Pheonix powered [P5]) (Wolverine and the X-Men #13)
Hope (Channeling Shao Lao) beats Cyclops (Pheonix powered [P2]) (AvX #10)
Magik (Pheonix powered [P4]) vs. Colossus (Pheonix powered [P4]) *Double KO
Moon Knight vs. Gambit (X-Men Legacy #267)
Rulk vs Colossnaut (AvX Versus #3)
Rulk vs. Iceman (Wolverine and the X-Men #10 & 11)
Squirrel Girl vs. Pixie (AvX Vs #6) *It was a game using pupper master clay dolls implying their the reason they started the Avengers fighting the X-Men
Thing vs Namor (Uncanny X-Men #12)
Thor vs. Rachel Summers (Wolverine and the X-Men #12, Avengers #29)
Warbird vs. White Queen (Pheonix powered [P5]) (Wolverine and the X-Men #13) *Warbird is escorted away by Gladiator
Other fights:
Captain Marvel (Pheonix powered) beats Thor (????)
Cyttorak beats Colossus (Pheonix powered) (Uncanny X-Men #15)
Dangers beats Pixie (Uncanny X-Men #13)
Dangers beats Primal (Uncanny X-Men #13)
Dangers beats Transonic (Uncanny X-Men #13)
Dangers beats Velocidad (Uncanny X-Men #13)
Fongyi (channeling Shao Lao) beats The Pheonix (New Avengers #27)
Hope & Scarlet Witch beats Cyclops (Pheonix powered [Full]) (AvX #12, Uncanny X-Men #19)
Madelyne Pryor (3 clones) beats Cyclops (Pheonix powered [P5]) (Uncanny X-men #16)
Madelyne Pryor (3+ clones) beats Magik & Colossus (Pheonix powered [P5]) (Uncanny X-men #16)
Madelyne Pryor (clone) beats Magneto (Uncanny X-men #17)
Madelyne Pryor (six clones) beats Namor (Pheonix powered [P5]) (Uncanny X-men #16)
Madelyne Pryor (clone) beats Storm (Uncanny X-men #17)
Madelyne Pryor (unknown number of clones) beats White Queen (Pheonix powered [P5]) (Uncanny X-men #16)
Magik (Pheonix powered [P5]) beats Rogue (X-Men Legacy #270)
Pheonix 5 beats Mr. Sinister (Uncanny X-men #17)
Professor X beats Angel, Beast, Captain America, Giant Man, Ice Man, Kid Gladiator, Namor (Pheonix powered [P5]), Quicksilver, Racheal Summers, Thor, War Machine, Wolverine
Psylocke beats Magneto (Uncanny X-Men #17) *Magneto was being mind controled by Madelyne
Sebastian Shaw beats Hercules (Avengers Academy #30) *Mortal form
Sebastian Shaw beats Madison Jeffries/Box (Avengers Academy #30)
Sebastian Shaw beats Tigress (Avengers Academy #30)
Shao Lao (Adult) beats Pheonix (Full) (AvX #10) *Mentioned
Warbird beats Iceman (Wolverine and the X-Men #13)
White Queen (Pheonix powered [P5]) beats Madelyne Pryor clones (Uncanny X-Men #17)
Only fights that are conclusive (or one person shows a clear advantage) or have some substance (Rather then just one panel and not shown again) is mentioned in the above list.
*Not listing the huge fight in AvX #11-12 with the combined might of the Avengers and X-Men taking on Pheonix powered Cyclops and White Queen as just way to many to name
Originally posted by the ninjakForgot all about that. The Phoenix Five idea had precedent. Unit told everyone about how he witnessed the Phoenixforce possess a host on an alien world who had five friends who helped her remake the world. Unit then subdues the Five (or Four) Lights to prevent them going to the Moon and erases their minds because he was curious to see what would happen if a Phoenix host didn't have her five (in this case, four) friends with her to support her.
UNIT is the most dangerous robot in the galaxy previously held by SWORD he activated an epic prison break that united the Xmen and Avengers before the Phoenix activated.When The Xteams and Avengers fought UNIT held back Hope's friends on Utopia knowing that an old holder of the Fist had her friends around her to realise that releasing the Phoenix was a better choice than trying to harness it. Unit knew this and used Danger to beat them up.
At least that's how I remembered it.
So if it wasn't for UNIT Hope would've harnessed the PF/
Question is was Hope wise enough yet to make the choice of expelling it whilst on the moon?
Originally posted by RyanAutumnsCould be that she saw Hope heralding the return of the Phoenix. After all, over a year later at the end of Second Coming, when Emma first saw Hope manifest the Phoenix halo, Emma didn't seem so much shocked, but rather resigned as if she knew what it meant.
In Uncanny XMen #510 Phoenix Jean Grey had went to Emma and gave her a vision .. whatever became of this? Emma briefly remembered Jeans vision at the end of Second Coming but than that was it...?
Originally posted by RyanAutumns
In Uncanny XMen #510 Phoenix Jean Grey had went to Emma and gave her a vision .. whatever became of this? Emma briefly remembered Jeans vision at the end of Second Coming but than that was it...?
People forgot why Cyclops was banking on the PF, he had "intel" from both Jean Grey and Cable... but stupid event "destroyed the PF, how is that even possible? If the PF was destryoed wouldnt all the stars blink out? like when Galactus was going to destroy the PF when Rachel Summers had it... stupid writers
Originally posted by RyanAutumns
People forgot why Cyclops was banking on the PF, he had "intel" from both Jean Grey and Cable... but stupid event "destroyed the PF, how is that even possible? If the PF was destryoed wouldnt all the stars blink out? like when Galactus was going to destroy the PF when Rachel Summers had it... stupid writers
Originally posted by Bentley
They just rewrited the universe so the PF was unnecesary.
TomBrevoort 5 Oct
If the Phoenix is destroyed, so is the entire universe. Do your research. The Phoenix Force has not been destroyed.Or maybe the thing that said that was wrong. Or maybe those conditions have changed. You realize that we make all of this stuff up, yes? It's fiction.
Grant Morrison's thoughts on Cyclops development during AvX:
"[I haven't] actually seen it. I read about it online. That ain't my Scott Summers. That ain't my guy. The guys working on those characters are trying something new, trying to push the story and I'm fine with it but I didn't recognize him and I don't think he'd do any of those things. Maybe he's been possessed -- he's always getting possessed, that guy. Maybe he likes it."
Read more at http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=68710#AdhZFUzU2zk4EIJM.99