Originally posted by Stoic
in this fight you would have to prove that the Flash's brain processes data faster than a super computers brain does. This is where we are stuck in speculation.
In DC 1 million, Flash was running simulations through a future tech strategy engine so quickly, he was burning it out.
For the record, when I said take over Amazo's body, I didn't mean via technopathy and hacking, I meant via Hank's ability to transfer his consciousness into and inhabit materials and form new bodies out of it (like he did the Source Wall). Hank could literally jack Amazo's body as his first move. Not overwrite his programming, but take his 'form' as his own.
Originally posted by Galan007
Post some speed/reaction feats Henshaw has that put him remotely close to Flash-level. I can post scans of Amazo picking apart the entire JLA (inc. Supes and Wally) by utilizing all/most of the power and versatility at his disposal.Hank gets destroyed.
The speed stealing argument is nothing but a red herring- as it is utterly irrelevant to THIS match.
Why? Hank cannot steal speed. none
People say he can copy powers and make instant defenses. I pointed out a instance in comics where it was proved the contrary. Irrelevant? I guess if you want to talk about something else...
I mean i would like to see someone point out a time where amazo stole powers and instantly was able to defend or in this case people are saying he will be impervious to it.
But I say Technopathy is Hanks best and only shot at winning.
Originally posted by Lord Feron
People say he can copy powers and make instant defenses. I pointed out a instance in comics where it was proved the contrary. Irrelevant? I guess if you want to talk about something else...I mean i would like to see someone point out a time where amazo stole powers and instantly was able to defend or in this case people are saying he will be impervious to it.
But I say Technopathy is Hanks best and only shot at winning.
I agree with this - I think it WAS relevant to the discussion. Amazo can copy powersets, but not skillsets - for example, he'll copy Batman's strength etc, but won't know his fighting skills.
I guess the debate is, is hacking/firewalls a skill thing, or a power thing. I'd argue its a power thing, and so whilst he may not be as skilled at technopathy and hacking as Hank, the fact that he has brute computing power behind him means that Amazo comes out top.
Again, using Feron's example, whilst Amazo could probably keep up with the Flash in a footrace, he won't be able to think up strategies and tactics faster than Wally using his speed, as Wally would be more at home with his own powers. However, he WILL be able to think up tactics and strategies faster than Hank, as the Flash would be faster than Hank, imho.
Originally posted by DarkSaint85Kid amazo would crush hank though.
I agree with this - I think it WAS relevant to the discussion. Amazo can copy powersets, but not skillsets - for example, he'll copy Batman's strength etc, but won't know his fighting skills.I guess the debate is, is hacking/firewalls a skill thing, or a power thing. I'd argue its a power thing, and so whilst he may not be as skilled at technopathy and hacking as Hank, the fact that he has brute computing power behind him means that Amazo comes out top.
Again, using Feron's example, whilst Amazo could probably keep up with the Flash in a footrace, he won't be able to think up strategies and tactics faster than Wally using his speed, as Wally would be more at home with his own powers. However, he WILL be able to think up tactics and strategies faster than Hank, as the Flash would be faster than Hank, imho.
Originally posted by MF DELPH
For the record, when I said take over Amazo's body, I didn't mean via technopathy and hacking, I meant via Hank's ability to transfer his consciousness into and inhabit materials and form new bodies out of it (like he did the Source Wall). Hank could literally jack Amazo's body as his first move. Not overwrite his programming, but take his 'form' as his own.
Hank did animate a portion of the Source Wall.
Amazo's body shouldn't be much of a problem to animate.
And unlike Broodika, he doesn't have a soul to struggle over possession of the body.. He's just a machine, and Hank uses those like people use clothes.
Originally posted by Galan007For what it's worth, it should be pointed out that Hank isn't fighting the Flash. He's fighting Amazo, who has never been shown to use Flash's speed with the competency of the Flash.
The scans he provided are good. They aren't Flash-level though.
I mean, don't get me wrong, Amazo's torn apart the JLA before, but he's never demonstrated that his use of the Flash's speed is as good as Wally/Barry/Bart/whoever, and so their names (Amazo and the Flash that is) shouldn't be used interchangeably.
Furthermore, Amazo seems to have to access powers to use them. I think it's logical to assume that each combatant would start from base power, so, even with the Flash's speed as a potential power at his disposal, Amazo wouldn't start the match with the copied speedforce-level reflexes.
If it's a quickdraw for Hank to take over Amazo's machinery, Hank doesn't need to outrace the Flash computationally, he needs (or doesn't, depending on how you view it) to outrace Amazo computationally.
And, as mentioned, even if Amazo delivers the first blow, or even if Amazo copies Henshaw, there's an argument to be made that Henshaw (through smarts, experience, and expertise at taking over foreign machinery) would win a battle of machines to see who takes over who.
Originally posted by Existere
For what it's worth, it should be pointed out that Hank isn't fighting the Flash. He's fighting Amazo, who has never been shown to use Flash's speed with the competency of the Flash.I mean, don't get me wrong, Amazo's torn apart the JLA before, but he's never demonstrated that his use of the Flash's speed is as good as Wally/Barry/Bart/whoever, and so their names (Amazo and the Flash that is) shouldn't be used interchangeably.
Furthermore, Amazo seems to have to access powers to use them. I think it's logical to assume that each combatant would start from base power, so, even with the Flash's speed as a potential power at his disposal, Amazo wouldn't start the match with the copied speedforce-level reflexes.
If it's a quickdraw for Hank to take over Amazo's machinery, Hank doesn't need to outrace the Flash computationally, he needs (or doesn't, depending on how you view it) to outrace Amazo computationally.
And, as mentioned, even if Amazo delivers the first blow, or even if Amazo copies Henshaw, there's an argument to be made that Henshaw (through smarts, experience, and expertise at taking over foreign machinery) would win a battle of machines to see who takes over who.
i agree. i don't see this thing being a foregone conclusion at all. i think it is entirely reasonable to think hank could take possession of amazo. his copying hank's powers wouldn't matter much, imo. he'd STILL be a machine and STILL be susceptible to being taken over. i think amazo would literally have to ko hank before hank even got off a thought. 😬
Originally posted by Existere
For what it's worth, it should be pointed out that Hank isn't fighting the Flash. He's fighting Amazo, who has never been shown to use Flash's speed with the competency of the Flash.I mean, don't get me wrong, Amazo's torn apart the JLA before, but he's never demonstrated that his use of the Flash's speed is as good as Wally/Barry/Bart/whoever, and so their names (Amazo and the Flash that is) shouldn't be used interchangeably.
Furthermore, Amazo seems to have to access powers to use them. I think it's logical to assume that each combatant would start from base power, so, even with the Flash's speed as a potential power at his disposal, Amazo wouldn't start the match with the copied speedforce-level reflexes.
If it's a quickdraw for Hank to take over Amazo's machinery, Hank doesn't need to outrace the Flash computationally, he needs (or doesn't, depending on how you view it) to outrace Amazo computationally.
And, as mentioned, even if Amazo delivers the first blow, or even if Amazo copies Henshaw, there's an argument to be made that Henshaw (through smarts, experience, and expertise at taking over foreign machinery) would win a battle of machines to see who takes over who.
👆
Originally posted by Existere
For what it's worth, it should be pointed out that Hank isn't fighting the Flash. He's fighting Amazo, who has never been shown to use Flash's speed with the competency of the Flash.I mean, don't get me wrong, Amazo's torn apart the JLA before, but he's never demonstrated that his use of the Flash's speed is as good as Wally/Barry/Bart/whoever, and so their names (Amazo and the Flash that is) shouldn't be used interchangeably.
Furthermore, Amazo seems to have to access powers to use them. I think it's logical to assume that each combatant would start from base power, so, even with the Flash's speed as a potential power at his disposal, Amazo wouldn't start the match with the copied speedforce-level reflexes.
If it's a quickdraw for Hank to take over Amazo's machinery, Hank doesn't need to outrace the Flash computationally, he needs (or doesn't, depending on how you view it) to outrace Amazo computationally.
And, as mentioned, even if Amazo delivers the first blow, or even if Amazo copies Henshaw, there's an argument to be made that Henshaw (through smarts, experience, and expertise at taking over foreign machinery) would win a battle of machines to see who takes over who.
Exactly how I see it.
In the end, Amazo is a machine, while Hank is an entity that possesses machines.
Henshaw's ability to move into another host is being vastly overrated. Amazo would copy his powers the instant this battle starts- it's what he's does. Once that happens, Hank's ability to utilize technopathy or his overrated 'body-swap' (which I don't believe he's ever done to an opponent mid-battle, anyway) becomes virtually non-existent. Proof of this can be found simply by looking at Hank's most recent battle with Doomsday. In the aforementioned fight, Hank was rendered completely ineffectual where technopathy is concerned as soon as DD copied his powerset... And he didn't even try to "body-swap". That being said, Amazo would have all of Hank's abilities + those of the collective JLA. So if Hank was owned by a fella who only copied his powers, he certainly isn't beating a guy who possesses his powers, along with NUMEROUS others.
...Or Hank steps out of character and tries to overtake Amazo. Amazo nigh-instantly analyzes the threat, and counters it by becoming organic (he's done so before.)
Either way, Hank gets stomped. Imo.