Superman vs Firelord

Originally posted by abhilegend
What horrible logic, aren't we debating powersets here unless you know an instance where firelord produced red sun light let alone used his cosmic awareness to find out weaknesses in the heat of battle?

Your horrible logic. Even if Firelord was getting a bit too much benefit of the doubt, you said Kal-El would vibrate through all of his attacks and rip out his heart. Not only did you go CBR, you completely ignored the core of the character. What I said stands.

And this thread is only 3 pages in, a bit early to fight fire with fire.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Uh-huh,
http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/5113/18eh0.jpg
He was caught in the perimeter of initial blast and flung back. The fallout of that blast was lethal to him. Anyway, he was able to outrace light in such a weakened state. He has also fought eradicator under a red sun and was flung in that sun twice after getting a brutal beating from him and still survived. I don't know how red sun light equates to win. However if we are using only powersets kal beats firelord's face in a few nano seconds by several planet busting punches. After all hercules made firelord see stars by just a left hook.

Maybe I'm just not getting it but from what I can tell, I'd argue he was hit by the electromagnetic shock wave but the actual explosion (And radiation) of the event didn't hit him and it wouldn't be something that he could survive. Superman didn't go faster than light, in that condition it wasn't something he'd be capable of, at least for anything more than a moment: http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/3681/19ot8.jpg

Clark's resistance to red solar radiation like most shit fluctuates, I haven't read the Eradicator scene you're referring to (If you have scans or an issue number, it'd be appreciated) but he did survive flying through a Red Star against Prime so it's no always an instant win. That being said, if Firelord does resort to such a move (I'm not suggesting it's a go-tactic or anything, like I said earlier, not his mo), then it's enough to tip the scales in his favor. His not as powerful as the Surfer, but his still a potent opponent.

And yes, there have been times where Red Solar Radiation has straight up crippled Clark, so I wouldn't fault someone for thinking it's an instant win. There's just evidence to the contrary so it's best to find a middle ground.

Hercules once knocked Krill off his feet if that's what you mean. Not really sure what that proves though.

Originally posted by zopzop
I know and understand. I'm just pointing out he's never needed to do the red sun/energy weakness thing against a foe because he's never faced a foe with that huge and gaping vulnerability before. That's why I say Superman man is Firelord's ideal foe.

He has the energy manip/drain feats on panel. On panel it was stated that his "fire" isn't stellar or even really fire at all but 'the product of Galactus' alien science' that caused the Surfer to flee his huge aura. He has the cosmic senses feat/statements on panel at least 2 or 3 times.

The thing is you can't have Firelord fight in ways he was never shown otherwise Superman can speed blitz him for the instant win.

You are arguing the hypothetical argument (the CIS off kind). You must stick to things firelord has done on panel in a fight. Has firelord used cosmic awareness in battle to find weaknesses and how fast has he used it?

With that said, Superman beats him through sheer physical force, speed, and skill. Firelord will have no time to do anything but get his butt stomp. He may get a lick or two off Superman but not much after that since Superman would turn up the heat to a level where Firelord can't stand.

Thinking it over:

Maybe it happened, but not like Johns saying? The fishing is supposed to be an allegory for his fish story, basically? He said the entropy wave was heading towards him at the speed of light, while Superman was right next to it, and he had time to pick him up? Doesn't make much sense..

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Your horrible logic. Even if Firelord was getting a bit too much benefit of the doubt, you said Kal-El would vibrate through all of his attacks and rip out his heart. Not only did you go CBR, you completely ignored the core of the character. What I said stands.

And this thread is only 3 pages in, a bit early to fight fire with fire.

Maybe I'm just not getting it but from what I can tell, I'd argue he was hit by the electromagnetic shock wave but the actual explosion (And radiation) of the event didn't hit him and it wouldn't be something that he could survive. Superman didn't go faster than light, in that condition it wasn't something he'd be capable of, at least for anything more than a moment: http://img255.imageshack.us/img255/3681/19ot8.jpg

Clark's resistance to red solar radiation like most shit fluctuates, I haven't read the Eradicator scene you're referring to (If you have scans or an issue number, it'd be appreciated) but he did survive flying through a Red Star against Prime so it's no always an instant win. That being said, if Firelord does resort to such a move (I'm not suggesting it's a go-tactic or anything, like I said earlier, not his mo), then it's enough to tip the scales in his favor. His not as powerful as the Surfer, but his still a potent opponent.

And yes, there have been times where Red Solar Radiation has straight up crippled Clark, so I wouldn't fault someone for thinking it's an instant win. There's just evidence to the contrary so it's best to find a middle ground.

Hercules once knocked Krill off his feet if that's what you mean. Not really sure what that proves though.

He was hit by initial blasts and flung back, he then outflew radiation, you are just ignoring on panel feats.

It was one of the most brutal beatings he has got.

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Gives Superman the worst pwning he's ever gotten. Even Death of Superman DD did not whoop the Man of Steel this badly.

I forgot these

Originally posted by Avalonofthewind
Superman escapes the Red sun...so what does Eradicator do?

He tosses him back in.

Take out possible weakness exploitation and Supes wins the majority. Cant really see Firelord bringing anything to the table that Supes cant handle. Will it be easy? No. No mid-high herald would go down without a good fight.

Originally posted by carver9
Guy...do you have that firelord vs Surfer fight where he was hitting Surfer with blasts hotter than the sun?

How badly did those blasts hurt Surfer??

Btw Im almost certain Supes heat vision is hotter than the sun as well.

Wow. Zopzop has definitely improved his debating skills since the last time I read his posts in this forum.

Anyways, Superman's speed would pose a major problem to Firelord, or any other herald-level for that matter.
I think that would be his trump card against Firelord.
I'd give Superman 7/10 based on his will to win, and more importantly his speed.

Matches 2-4 aren't really debatable 😬

Originally posted by zopzop
I know and understand. I'm just pointing out he's never needed to do the red sun/energy weakness thing against a foe because he's never faced a foe with that huge and gaping vulnerability before. That's why I say Superman man is Firelord's ideal foe.

He has the energy manip/drain feats on panel. On panel it was stated that his "fire" isn't stellar or even really fire at all but 'the product of Galactus' alien science' that caused the Surfer to flee his huge aura. He has the cosmic senses feat/statements on panel at least 2 or 3 times.

supes isn't gonna fly fast enough as kril held his own vs surfer regardless of a fanbase here norrin>supes

give pyreus some due

zop is correct

i have said it for years kril can defeat superman its not a slight on the man of the steel and it is not a easy win for clark but can't change ppl's opinion's mine will always b simple kril defeats supes

^You are a good man guy but here you are wrong.

Originally posted by cdtm
He was hit by the initial explosion, which was 50 times the size of a named super nova, but never got hit by the slower moving entropy wave (As it would wipe him out, since it could take out a Sun Eater.)

And as for the comic explicitly saying it never happened:

It was implied. It's kind of an outlandish story, but how much would John really know about Sun Eaters or Entropy bombs?

Damn...so the scene never happened. Lol. Even if it did happen, he still didn't get hit by the blast but going by this scan, he made up the story. Lol.

It isn't conclusive that the scene never happened.

Originally posted by -Pr-
It isn't conclusive that the scene never happened.

The scene is pretty washy in my opinion. It's stated that he was lying to make his wife happy. It can't get any clearer than that. It's ambiguous at best. CDTM, is posting scans left and right proving a lot of things.

Lulz, what do you expect from cdtm and his lowballing superman. First it was not johns and second jonathan made a promise to clark to not tell this story to martha so that she doesn't freaks out. Jonathan initially told martha that he was breaking a promise by telling her this promise. Make no mistake, this story does happen but I expected cdtm to post some out of context or misleading scan to lowball superman.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Lulz, what do you expect from cdtm and his lowballing superman. First it was not johns and second jonathan made a promise to clark to not tell this story to martha so that she doesn't freaks out. Jonathan initially told martha that he was breaking a promise by telling her this promise. Make no mistake, this story does happen but I expected cdtm to post some out of context or misleading scan to lowball superman.

Show me the scene you are talking about.

Originally posted by carver9
The scene is pretty washy in my opinion. It's stated that he was lying to make his wife happy. It can't get any clearer than that. It's ambiguous at best. CDTM, is posting scans left and right proving a lot of things.

I think you're misunderstanding his posts.

Originally posted by abhilegend
^You are a good man guy but here you are wrong.

ur fair friend also

how does supes win barring speed and allowing that how does he win

kril is as fast as radd so supes flies fast and he falls down for a win 😛

i know kmc's rules regarding that i get paid at my law firm discussing cases so that's a non factor for me

to me it seems the ole kril loses to spidey and he gets whupped by supes believe me friend its not that easy heralds are tough i am not slighting supes and i hope ur not slighting kril i know the character and he can can defeat supes u see it the other way and that's cool agree to disagree fair for a 44 year old gentlemen

2-4 aforementioned aren't fair to the fiery herald boo boo

😛

^^^ Yeah what's up with 2-4?

i know

who do u think wins supes vs kril

My knee jerk reaction was Supes wins comfortably. However Zop posted some stuff that I had forgotten about Krill that made me pause. I also recall him going back to his more militant days during Annihilation where he was a badass. His mentality now is different then it was even from the Thor fight.

Having said that, I also remember how Nova knocked his butt across the solar system. Literally 😛