Who Can Break Mjolnir's Enchantment?

Originally posted by leonidas
i agree with taylor's thoughts on srank's argument. 😐

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This is stupid, just because it's only stated to be Adamantium doesn't mean it's automatically secondary Adamantium.

King Thor's eye beams melted both Wolverine's skeleton and Captain America's shield. The Serpent actually snapped the Shield into pieces. Energy empowered by Zeus slicing through Adamantium isn't that far fetched. At a certain level of power, Adamantium's durability is worthless.

Wolverine is indestructible God dammit!

Skrank is just weird when it comes to Wolverine. I've given up trying to make sense of it.

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
Oddly enough, Taylor is my middle name... match made in Heaven if you ask me.

lucky!1!!

and primary adamantium has been damaged in continuity. not sure why we're supposed to simply ASSUME everything is suddenly secondary adamantium.....

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I don't get how this is supposed to go against anything I said... even following everything you said as absolute proof.
"It wasn't said at the time to be secondary adamantium, but it was retconned into secondary adamantium"
Really? What ****ing difference does it make? It was still stated to be secondary adamantium. Plus, even in my post I referenced examples being retconned, so your attempt at... whatever the hell it is... doesn't work (maybe?). I mean, you're trying to argue with me over the use of "Stated"
You're arguing semantics.

And no, it doesn't follow suit. The term was invented so it could be used. It isn't invented just so it never has to be said, it's invented so it is used when adamantium is destroyed.
I don't get how this is hard to follow.

If the statue in the Thor/Hulk fight wasn't retconned, then I'm not sure that helps your case.

Plus, I saw your example earlier about Thanos clones and Doombots and popsicles... well guess what, we know every Thanos clone that's been used in comics. And we know every Doombot appearance as well because they referenced it. We didn't assume it wasn't Doom or Thanos, we know. And we know every secondary adamantium breaking appearance as well because it was stated to be... and since you like your semantics... or it was stated later via retcon (which is still stated). EXCEPT those three appearances.
Do you not see a problem there?

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Because we are arguing over whether or not Primary Adamantium or Secondary Adamantium is default. I said if something is Primary Adamantium it is stated as such, because it is the rarer form of Adamantium and doesn't appear as often on panel making it the exception. You said Secondary Adamantium is the exception and when it appears on panel it is explicitly stated as being Secondary Adamantium... and you were wrong, because that isn't the case at all. Buiesk made Adamantium unbreakable again and created Secondary Adamantium to retcon all the examples of it being broken without removing them from continuity. He didn't go back and retroactively write the word "Secondary" in front of every appearance of Adamantium, be basically had Iron Man say "If it's broken then it's Secondary Adamantium because True Adamantium is indestructible." Doesn't change the fact that Secondary Adamantium is refered to as Adamantium... which is what we were debating...

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
This is stupid, just because it's only stated to be Adamantium doesn't mean it's automatically secondary Adamantium.

King Thor's eye beams melted both Wolverine's skeleton and Captain America's shield. The Serpent actually snapped the Shield into pieces. Energy empowered by Zeus slicing through Adamantium isn't that far fetched. At a certain level of power, Adamantium's durability is worthless.

King Thor's eye beams melted both Wolverine's skeleton and Captain America's shield: Noncanon

The Serpent actually snapped the Shield into pieces: Matter manip

Energy empowered by Zeus slicing through Adamantium isn't that far fetched: Secondary Adamantium

😎

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
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Because we are arguing over whether or not Primary Adamantium or Secondary Adamantium is default. I said if something is Primary Adamantium it is stated as such, because it is the rarer form of Adamantium and doesn't appear as often on panel making it the exception. You said Secondary Adamantium is the exception and when it appears on panel it is explicitly stated as being Secondary Adamantium... and you were wrong, because that isn't the case at all. Buiesk made Adamantium unbreakable again and created Secondary Adamantium to retcon all the examples of it being broken without removing them from continuity. He didn't go back and retroactively write the word "Secondary" in front of every appearance of Adamantium, be basically had Iron Man say "If it's broken then it's Secondary Adamantium because True Adamantium is indestructible." Doesn't change the fact that Secondary Adamantium is refered to as Adamantium... which is what we were debating...

Secondary adamantium is referred to as secondary adamantium. Raising a stink about when the word was created doesn't help your case seeing as it gave a term to give to broken adamantium (secondary adamantium), and it wasn't used. I don't know how much clearer this can get, so I'm going to start writing in poems to see if that works.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
King Thor's eye beams melted both Wolverine's skeleton and Captain America's shield: Noncanon

The Serpent actually snapped the Shield into pieces: Matter manip

Energy empowered by Zeus slicing through Adamantium isn't that far fetched: Secondary Adamantium

Counts as far as I'm concerned. He even dented Captain America's shields when he was much less formidable.

Based on?

Based on?

tiamut

arishem

exitar

😛

I think all future references to adamantium was retconned to secondary as well (unless primary is stated). This is because it was retconned that comics in the past used the term 'adamantium' to refer to secondary adamantium. That implies that if characters called secondary adamantium just adamantium then they will continue to.

As far as lifting the hammer, It depends on whether the enchantment is stronger than the durability of the hammer. If it is not, then WBH, Terrax Sentry, and Superman (at his highest) can lift the hammer while being unworthy.

And if it is then no character can lift it without destroying it.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
If the narration simply says Adamantium, it's referring to Secondary Adamantium. Fact, stop making up myths. Primary Adamantium has never been destroyed or damaged, all examples of Adamantium being destroyed are Secondary. 😎

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
It was retcon'd, every single instance of Adamantium being damaged prior to 1999 was retcon'd.

So stop lying about it. Because that's all you're doing at this point. Utterly, completely, lying. And the fact that this garbage myth is afterbirthed out of Wolverine-related butthurt is ridiculous but it also reveals just how attenuated it is.

In this case ODG is right, I have read a heavy amount of adamantium-related material while doing the Ultron respect thread, and the situation on "Secondary Adamantium" is never addressed in anyway or form that can make you infer the outrageous claims about every word adamantium not meaning primary.

While we are at it, what happened with another random claim about adamantium not being invented by Doctor Myron Mclain? I really hope it wasn't you who came up with that bs Srank 😬

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
I'm 97 percent sure that the adamantium Blastaar was rolled up in was retconned. Same with the adamantium wall Blastaar smashed.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That was an alloy of adamantium. I've already posted that scan several times. And it wasn't due to a retcon, it's stated directly in the comic itself.

That being said, I thought the Blastaar case was one that was mentioned by the writers as being part of the recton.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
The only thing that was stated was that in a fight where Thor destroys an Ultron, Iron Man says that it's defeat was too easy and it couldn't have been adamantium. It turns out it was secondary adamantium. Iron Man never mentions every single appearance of adamantium prior in Marvel history. The import of his observation doesn't, and never did, extend outside those Ultrons in that story.

Originally posted by zopzop
You know what, aside from the Evil Eye, has ANYONE/ANYTHING ever broken/overpowered one of Mjolnir's enchantments?

Originally posted by basilisk
Same wall.

In the comic it is referred to as both adamantium and as adamantium alloy. Both are correct because adamantium is an alloy. It's like brass and brass alloy are the same thing.

Maybe if he had called it an alloy of adamantium or something it might have implied maybe it had something different mixed in.

Originally posted by basilisk
But adamantium alloy and adamantium are the same, just like brass alloy and brass or bronze alloy and bronze - you see both terms used.

That being said, I thought the Blastaar case was one that was mentioned by the writers as being part of the recton.

I think some of the opinions about the extent of the retcon were supposedly based on Busiek's comments somewhere (as the creator of the retcon) rather than what was on panel. ie that somewhere he said something about secondary adamantium being created to retcon the misuses by previious writers that had wrecked the whole point of adamantium. But I don't know what any such comments were exactly.

There is no retcon.

That's never been said on-panel, much less an interview (not that it matters as interviews are banned per forum ruling). It's only Wolverine fanboys making sh1t up, repeating it to each other, and regurgitating it to the forum as a whole. It's complete and utter horsesh1t.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
From Marvel Team-Up #18 itself, "alloy [b]of adamantium":

I've had to post the same scan like a dozen times and it never sinks in.

There is no retcon.

That's never been said on-panel, much less an interview (not that it matters as interviews are banned per forum ruling). It's only Wolverine fanboys making sh1t up, repeating it to each other, and regurgitating it to the forum as a whole. It's complete and utter horsesh1t. [/B]

In the sequel story, the same material is referred to as "adamantium alloy" by Blastaar, and as "adamantium" by the sentient factory itself, in the narrative as "adamantium" and "indestructible". FAUST says "I am forged of adamantium... completely indestructible". More strange, Iron Man states in one panel that destroying the FAUST's adamantium construction is beyond the power of Thor's hammer - the same material that was wrecked by Hulk and Blastaar? But then points out that Thor's lightning attack "altered the properties" of the adamantium casing, which FAUST absorbed, "destroying it's invulnerability" of it's adamantium.

So to clear this up, the Marvel.com website says "Due to the prohibitive cost of Adamantium’s creation, many parties have resorted to the use of a somewhat weaker compound named Secondary Adamantium, which was once used to coat the sentient computer named F.A.U.S.T." So that is part of the recton.

As for Wolverine, couldn't care less about what his adamantium is.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
From Marvel Team-Up #18 itself, "alloy [b]of adamantium":

I've had to post the same scan like a dozen times and it never sinks in.

There is no retcon.[/B]

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

i'd love to know how often the terms 'primary' and 'secondary' have actually showed up in books. it would be nice if writers were a little more explicit. better yet, it would be great if they simply renamed secondary adamantium. that would clear up any possibility of confusion.

Originally posted by basilisk
"Due to the prohibitive cost of Adamantium’s creation, many parties have resorted to the use of a somewhat weaker compound named Secondary Adamantium, which was once used to coat the sentient computer named F.A.U.S.T." - Marvel.com - The Official Site.

Websites are even less reliable than interviews, which are less reliable than handbooks. And none of this changes what's stated on-panel or, more appropriately, suffices to prove what's never shown or stated on-panel. Come back to me when you have something on-panel.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
People can edit that website. It's why Punisher has a level 7 in fighting skills, a level 6 in strength and a level 4 in... energy projection. facepalm

Websites are even less reliable than interviews, which are less reliable than handbooks. And none of this changes what's stated on-panel or, more appropriately, suffices to prove what's never shown or stated on-panel. Come back to me when you have something on-panel.

And you can't just pick your favorite panel and ignore all the others. The panel you showed looked like the only one where it was referred to that way - hence why I said there was the confusion. Both the narrative and FAUST stated on panel a number of times that he was made of "adamantium". Everywhere else it was either called either plain "adamantium" or "adamantium alloy" (primary adamantium being an alloy). In the sequel FAUST keeps calling it just "adamantium", and at one point says "I am forged of adamantium... completely indestructible".

Originally posted by leonidas
i'd love to know how often the terms 'primary' and 'secondary' have actually showed up in books. it would be nice if writers were a little more explicit. better yet, it would be great if they simply renamed secondary adamantium. that would clear up any possibility of confusion.

"Vampire warriors - prepare the SECONDARY adamantium net for our foe Nuul!"
"Uhhh... secondary adamantium Lord Dracula? Is that wise?"
"Shut up fool."

Originally posted by basilisk
In that case it was from a published handbook, rather than just somebody editing. And yeah sure they have errors and people will never agree with power levels, but that is a pretty simple and blatant retcon right there, and published by Marvel.

Originally posted by basilisk
And you can't just pick your favorite panel and ignore all the others. The panel you showed looked like the only one where it was referred to that way - hence why I said there was the confusion. Both the narrative and FAUST stated on panel a number of times that he was made of "adamantium". Everywhere else it was either called either plain "adamantium" or "adamantium alloy" (primary adamantium being an alloy). In the sequel FAUST keeps calling it just "adamantium", and at one point says "I am forged of adamantium... completely indestructible".

There is no confusion. There is no need for a retcon. There isn't even a retcon on-panel, anywhere. You can keep referring to your websites random anonymous handbook entries or imaginary writer interviews. Once again, none of that matters. Let me know when you have something on-panel that suggests, much less confirms, that all appearances of adamantium were secondary knock-offs.

Until then, this sh1tty myth remains sh1tty myth.