Who Can Break Mjolnir's Enchantment?

Originally posted by zopzop
Yeah I remember that but he's a notorious liar. Didn't he also raise "Odin" from the dead and parade him around Thor? IMHO the hammer melting was an illusion like the Odin resurrection.

Having said that, he does have some damn impressive showings (vs Galactus, Satannish, etc...) and some outright sad ones. But I still don't think he can do anything to Mjolnir's enchantments.

Someone said that it was retconned/explained that Mephisto was able to hold Mjolnir from Thor for a moment ala Zeus in a comic. I've never been able to find this scene so it could just be bullshit (If anyone has any information regarding such an incident, it'd be appreciated). It would make a lot more sense to me though, in his realm, Mephisto is supposed to be a peer to the big boys like Odin. At least on a good day, like you said, his had some bad showings.

Either way, as far as track records go, Mjolnir's is absolutely excellent. It hasn't even been broken in What If's or alternate reality comics as far as I know.

Edit: I think there might've be one scene where it's outmaneuvered through powerful magic during the Silver Age. I'll need to double check.

Also onslaught when he overpowered Thor he tried to lift hammer but couldn't etc... Also rulk could only lift mjolinir cos Odin was in Odin sleep i think during that time Hence the enchatment forces were weak making it easy for rulk to lift and use....

Adamantium is adamantium unless stated otherwise. Unproven fanboy mythcrafting doesn't change that and irrelevent interiews are against the rules.

Mephisto is supreme in his dimension when he wants to be. Nothing else to it.

As for the actual thread, nobody below Skyfather does it with pure strength. They'd need a loophole, e.g., zero gravity, artificial lifeform, etc.

I wonder if Classic Aquarian can do it via his null field. That null field has some stupendous feats to its' name, most impressively dealing with Nth Man (a confirmed universe devourer) and shutting down the Quantum Bands. He'd probably be able to lift it via the whole "nullifying gravity" thing.

lol at the adamantium talk.

We don't assume it's secondary until someone says it's primary... it's the exact opposite, especially considering everytime secondary adamantium is broken, it's been said to be secondary. In fact, the only adamantium that hasn't been said to be secondary that's been broken is by Morlun and Nuul.

^ 👆

The fact that this sounds so smart and intelligent is an indictment on the forums as a whole.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Adamantium is adamantium unless stated otherwise. Unproven fanboy mythcrafting doesn't change that and irrelevent interiews are against the rules.

Secondary Adamantium... is still Adamantium. It is by far the most common type of Adamantium, unless explicitly stated otherwise that is type of Adamantium being used. 😕

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
We don't assume it's secondary until someone says it's primary..

Yes we do. 😎

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
[Bespecially considering everytime secondary adamantium is broken, it's been said to be secondary [/B]

For instance? The time it was retcon'd that Ultron was only secondary adamantium when Hulk crushed him? When else?

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
In fact, the only adamantium that hasn't been said to be secondary that's been broken is by Morlun and Nuul.

And the time Hulk rolled Blastaar up in Adamantium? Or when Zues' force field sliced up some missiles? Or when Cyclops' blasts were stated as being capable of pulverizing Adamantium? ect ect ect. The times Primary Adamantium has shown up on panel are few and far between.

Originally posted by Stoic
I know a character that can. He's big and Green.

Looooooooooooooool

Hope you're not serious, bro.

Lol I didn't mean to take this that far off track I was just using adamantium as an example of the so called unbreakable like Mjolnir's enhancements not being as completely invulnerable as one would like to think.

I think no one can do it through physical means.Only people who can cancel out the enchantment could do it.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
For instance? The time it was retcon'd that Ultron was only secondary adamantium when Hulk crushed him? When else?

And the time Hulk rolled Blastaar up in Adamantium? Or when Zues' force field sliced up some missiles? Or when Cyclops' blasts were stated as being capable of pulverizing Adamantium? ect ect ect. The times Primary Adamantium has shown up on panel are few and far between.

I'm 97 percent sure that the adamantium Blastaar was rolled up in was retconned. Same with the adamantium wall Blastaar smashed.

Cyclops has been said to be able to do a lot of shit, it doesn't mean he can. That statement means nothing... unless you want them to retcon the statement by saying that they actually meant Cyclops can only pulverize secondary adamantium... which is stupid. Almost as dumb as Cyclops as a serious character.

^ It's pathetic that this even needs to be explained. 👆

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Secondary Adamantium... is still Adamantium. It is by far the most common type of Adamantium, unless explicitly stated otherwise that is type of Adamantium being used. 😕

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Yes we do. 😎

For instance? The time it was retcon'd that Ultron was only secondary adamantium when Hulk crushed him? When else?

That wasn't retconned. Ever. And Hulk dented him slightly. At least get the established facts straight before trying to spin your myths.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
And the time Hulk rolled Blastaar up in Adamantium? Or when Zues' force field sliced up some missiles? Or when Cyclops' blasts were stated as being capable of pulverizing Adamantium? ect ect ect. The times Primary Adamantium has shown up on panel are few and far between.

Try coming up with on-panel proof that all appearances of adamantium are secondary and inferior instead of just being normal primary adamantium.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Swamp Thing?

I said this half seriously on page one in response to stoic....but the more I think about it, the more plausible it seems....

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I said this half seriously on page one in response to stoic....but the more I think about it, the more plausible it seems....

Also, pre DCnU, he was vegetable matter that tried to replicate Alec Holland (rather than Alec inhabiting plant matter). Which suggests to me two options for negating the enchantment:

1, just like an android, he can lift it; or
2, if not, then he can use vines etc to move it, like Magneto using his powers to move it - and who's to argue where his body ends and the surrounding vegetation begins?

Then of course, there's option 3, as Uriel005 said - he just flat outright breaks Odin's magic (depending on which ST).

Originally posted by Sr J-Bieb
The statue Thor smashed Hulk with, the Ultron's in Unlimited, the Ultron Simon head bashed, pretty much every time except the two I named and I forgot about the Zeus bird. 3 times.

I'm 97 percent sure that the adamantium Blastaar was rolled up in was retconned. Same with the adamantium wall Blastaar smashed.

Cyclops has been said to be able to do a lot of shit, it doesn't mean he can. That statement means nothing... unless you want them to retcon the statement by saying that they actually meant Cyclops can only pulverize secondary adamantium... which is stupid. Almost as dumb as Cyclops as a serious character.

You and Dumb are pretty humorous with your examples of alleged citations of Secondary Adamantium, from the 70s, 80s, and early 90s. Kurt Buiesk invented Secondary Adamantium in 1999. The only example you've cited where the term Secondary Adamantium was used was in Ultron Unlimited... because that was the arc Buiesk created Secondary Adamantium in. Why? To retcon all the examples of Adamantium being destroyed, and making Adamantium indestucatble again. Every example of Adamantium being destroyed or damaged prior to Ultron Unlimted was retcon'd by that story arch, and every example since fallows suit and is Secondary Adamantium.

The statue Thor through Hulk into was never stated to be secondary adamantium (obviously since it was an issue before 99), it was referenced as pure adamantium. The Ultron who's head Wonderman crushed was just stated to be adamantium (again... an issue before the creation of Secondary Adamantium), not secondary (and Busiek retcon'd WM crushing Ultron's head IIRC). Prior to Buiesk's Avengers run those were all examples of Adamantium being destroyed and post Ultron Unlimted they were retcon'd to Secondary.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
And primary adamantium... is still adamantium. If it's secondary adamantium, it's stated to be. That's how it's always been. When it's not stated to be secondary, it's primary adamantium. You do because somehow you think Wolverine's formidability would be vicariously impugned. The comics world doesn't revolve around Wolverine. Stop making up myths.

Secondary Adamantium = Adamantium

Primary Adamantium = True Adamantium or Primary Adamantium

If the narration simply says Adamantium, it's referring to Secondary Adamantium. Fact, stop making up myths. Primary Adamantium has never been destroyed or damaged, all examples of Adamantium being destroyed are Secondary. 😎

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That wasn't retconned. Ever. And Hulk dented him slightly. At least get the established facts straight before trying to spin your myths. That was an alloy of adamantium. I've already posted that scan several times. And it wasn't due to a retcon, it's stated directly in the comic itself. And why wouldn't a magic forcefield with the power of Zeus slice adamantium? Odin's brother completely shattered Cap's shield like a tortilla chip. You think Skyfathers don't have that level of power? As for statements made about Cyclops, nobody cares about irrelevant statements that are unproven.

It was retcon'd, every single instance of Adamantium being damaged prior to 1999 was retcon'd.

Anyway, I'm going to ignore the fact that you are citing supposed examples of Secondary Adamantium prior to the existence of Secondary Adamantium in continuity and indulge you anyway. Adamantium is an steel alloy... even Primary Adamantium is an steel alloy. That's what it is. The word alloy isn't a synonym for Secondary Adamantium. It's Secondary Adamantium because it was broken, not because it was an alloy.

A Skyfather can matter manip and weaken the subatomic structure of Adamantium or Cap's shield, the magic force field was just laser razor wire.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
You and Dumb are pretty humorous with your examples of alleged citations of Secondary Adamantium, from the 70s, 80s, and early 90s. [b]Kurt Buiesk invented Secondary Adamantium in 1999. The only example you've cited where the term Secondary Adamantium was used was in Ultron Unlimited... because that was the arc Buiesk created Secondary Adamantium in. Why? To retcon all the examples of Adamantium being destroyed, and making Adamantium indestucatble again. Every example of Adamantium being destroyed or damaged prior to Ultron Unlimted was retcon'd by that story arch, and every example since fallows suit and is Secondary Adamantium.

The statue Thor through Hulk into was never stated to be secondary adamantium (obviously since it was an issue before 99), it was referenced as pure adamantium. The Ultron who's head Wonderman crushed was just stated to be adamantium (again... an issue before the creation of Secondary Adamantium), not secondary (and Busiek retcon'd WM crushing Ultron's head IIRC). Prior to Buiesk's Avengers run those were all examples of Adamantium being destroyed and post Ultron Unlimted they were retcon'd to Secondary.
[/B]

And no, it doesn't follow suit. The term was invented so it could be used. It isn't invented just so it never has to be said, it's invented so it is used when adamantium is destroyed.
I don't get how this is hard to follow.

If the statue in the Thor/Hulk fight wasn't retconned, then I'm not sure that helps your case.

Plus, I saw your example earlier about Thanos clones and Doombots and popsicles... well guess what, we know every Thanos clone that's been used in comics. And we know every Doombot appearance as well because they referenced it. We didn't assume it wasn't Doom or Thanos, we know. And we know every secondary adamantium breaking appearance as well because it was stated to be... and since you like your semantics... or it was stated later via retcon (which is still stated). EXCEPT those three appearances.
Do you not see a problem there?

i agree with taylor's thoughts on srank's argument. 😐

This is stupid, just because it's only stated to be Adamantium doesn't mean it's automatically secondary Adamantium.

King Thor's eye beams melted both Wolverine's skeleton and Captain America's shield. The Serpent actually snapped the Shield into pieces. Energy empowered by Zeus slicing through Adamantium isn't that far fetched. At a certain level of power, Adamantium's durability is worthless.

Why is this subtopic even being debated? Because it somehow adversely effects Wolverine or something?