Faith Alone.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
What happens to those who have never heard of Jesus?

What about those who have been born in any other particular religion such as Hindus or Buddhists?

It's pretty much a lottery if you're going to Hell or Heaven according to your reasoning.

God is merciful I believe that He has already taken this into consideration and has devised a plan for those who have not heard the gospel.

All must have an opportunity to either accept or reject Christ's sacrificial payment for our sins.

I have this argument with Muslims a lot, but it applies to Jews and Christians.

God is merciful, I agree, and compassionate as well. I'd like to think I'm compassionate and merciful as well, to all beings, but infinitely less so than God.
God is perfect in everything.

Now, me as imperfect being cannot imagine endorsing my worst enemy being burned and tortured to death for all eternity. Muhammad, for example, was a vile man who did many vile things in his lifetime, from pillaging to murder to rape and paedophilia to extermination of entire tribes. He left behind an ideology and his sunnah (practice) which has been emulated and as a result millions have suffered and are suffering.

Taking all this into account I would not wish to know that God has thrown this man for an ETERNAL punishment forever and ever and ever and I sincerely hope that he hasn't. This, even if he has done all those things, is an excessive punishment unfitting of a deity who is merciful, kind and all good.

Those who have done evil to other humans should repay their evil to other humans whom they have caused pain. It would make sense for God to, instead of throwing them into Hell, take them back to Earth as our lives are our suffering. Re-living again will make the spirit mature, grow in wisdom and enlightenment, and perhaps after thousand of lifetimes be fitting to be with God.

85 years is too short of a period of time to merit an eternal punishment.

Something is wrong somewhere with your interpretation of God. I'm not saying you're ''wrong'', I just feel it's offensive to an idea of a deity you're propagating.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
God is merciful I believe that He has already taken this into consideration and has devised a plan for those who have not heard the gospel.

All must have an opportunity to either accept or reject Christ's sacrificial payment for our sins.

Settled then, I (and all over non-Christians) can accept Jesus at the pearly gates.

So no need to preach.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
I have this argument with Muslims a lot, but it applies to Jews and Christians.

God is merciful, I agree, and compassionate as well. I'd like to think I'm compassionate and merciful as well, to all beings, but infinitely less so than God.
God is perfect in everything.

Now, me as imperfect being cannot imagine endorsing my worst enemy being burned and tortured to death for all eternity. Muhammad, for example, was a vile man who did many vile things in his lifetime, from pillaging to murder to rape and paedophilia to extermination of entire tribes. He left behind an ideology and his sunnah (practice) which has been emulated and as a result millions have suffered and are suffering.

Taking all this into account I would not wish to know that God has thrown this man for an ETERNAL punishment forever and ever and ever and I sincerely hope that he hasn't. This, even if he has done all those things, is an excessive punishment unfitting of a deity who is merciful, kind and all good.

Those who have done evil to other humans should repay their evil to other humans whom they have caused pain. It would make sense for God to, instead of throwing them into Hell, take them back to Earth as our lives are our suffering. Re-living again will make the spirit mature, grow in wisdom and enlightenment, and perhaps after thousand of lifetimes be fitting to be with God.

85 years is too short of a period of time to merit an eternal punishment or eternal happiness.

Something is wrong somewhere with your interpretation of God. I'm not saying it's ''wrong'', I just feel it's offensive to an idea of a deity you're propagating.

"There is a way which seems right to a man (or a person) but the end thereof is the way of death.

The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned."

Moreover, the Bible instructs us to "Trust in the Lord with all of our heart, lean not to our own understanding, in all our ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct our paths." (Proverbs 14:12 and 3:5-6; 1 Corinthians 2:14).

Well, I did not write the Bible nor am I or anyone else in a position to question God's righteousness since we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

This is why God--in His Word--commands us to trust Him. He knew that we would have the thoughts that you have before the universe was created.

All I can advise you and anyone else to do is trust God. Trust that His justice is right. Trust that His mercy endures forever.

Originally posted by Robtard
Settled then, I (and all over non-Christians) can accept Jesus at the pearly gates.

So no need to preach.

It is appointed unto men (people) to die once, and after this the judgment. (Hebrews 9:27)

So I do not believe that you will have the opportunity to see the pearly gates if you die in your sins without the Blood of Jesus Christ having first washed away your sins.

Remember it is the Blood of Jesus Christ that cleanses us from our sins; thus enabling us to stand before God righteous, as though we've never sinned.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
It is appointed unto men (people) to die once, and after this the judgment. (Hebrews 9:27)

So I do not believe that you will have the opportunity to see the pearly gates if you die in your sins without the Blood of Jesus Christ having[b] first washed away your sins.

Remember it is the Blood of Jesus Christ that cleanses us from our sins; thus enabling us to stand before God righteous, as though we've never sinned. [/B]

So it doesn't matter what evil we've done as the blood of Jesus will wash it away. Those with comparatively less evil or no evil will suffer as their disbelief is punished.

Seriously, I don't think Jesus would approve of your interpretations. Considering how inclusive of everyone he actually was this seems a radical turn around.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
So it doesn't matter what evil we've done as the blood of Jesus will wash it away. Those with comparatively less evil or no evil will suffer as their disbelief is punished.

Seriously, I don't think Jesus would approve of your interpretations. Considering how inclusive of everyone he actually was this seems a radical turn around.

I do believe his same New Testament says that the "Heathens in China" are saved in their ignorance.

Looks like another example of a Christian Cherry-Picking what beliefs they want to follow?

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
It is appointed unto men (people) to die once, and after this the judgment. (Hebrews 9:27)

So I do not believe that you will have the opportunity to see the pearly gates if you die in your sins without the Blood of Jesus Christ having[b] first washed away your sins.

Remember it is the Blood of Jesus Christ that cleanses us from our sins; thus enabling us to stand before God righteous, as though we've never sinned. [/B]

You just said above "God is merciful"; that would be the merciful.

So now you're just crapping all over what you previously said. Make up your mind, man.

Originally posted by Robtard
You just said above "God is merciful"; that would be the merciful.

So now you're just crapping all over what you previously said. Make up your mind, man.

In order for God to be righteous and holy He must judge and punish sin or He is not good.

God demonstrates His mercy to sinful humanity by sending His innocent sin-less Son to die for the world (this is evidence of God's love for humanity).

God is both just and merciful, but He is not a fool.

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. (Galatians 6:7)

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
So it doesn't matter what evil we've done as the blood of Jesus will wash it away. Those with comparatively less evil or no evil will suffer as their disbelief is punished.

Seriously, I don't think Jesus would approve of your interpretations. Considering how inclusive of everyone he actually was this seems a radical turn around.

The only sin that is not forgivable obviously is the sin of rejecting Jesus for or because His shed Blood is the only Blood capable of washing away (i.e. paying for) the sins of the world.

Salvation is of the Jews i.e. it originated with them (as a starting point) but it was the plan of God Almighty all along to reach the world (i.e. the Gentiles) as well.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
In order for God to be righteous and holy He must judge and punish sin or He is not good.

God demonstrates His mercy to sinful humanity by sending His innocent sin-less Son to die for the world (this is evidence of God's love for humanity).

God is both just and merciful, but He is not a fool.

Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. (Galatians 6:7)

You know I've never come across a Catholic or a Christian who automatically starts quoting from the bible to justify their faith.
Like sheep or drones, they just can't quite justify their faith by their own thoughts or experiences...

Seriously, JesusIsAlive, I ask you to justify your faith in God. In your own words & life-experience. I for one, have lost my faith in God & I have my own experiences in life to prove it.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
The only sin that is not forgivable obviously is the sin of rejecting Jesus for or because His shed Blood is the [B]only Blood capable of washing away (i.e. paying for) the sins of the world.

Salvation is of the Jews i.e. it originated with them (as a starting point) but it was the plan of God Almighty all along to reach the world (i.e. the Gentiles) as well. [/B]

See, you're interpreting this wrong.

As my understanding is, God does punish every sin, for he is just, but Jesus has repaid that punishment himself. He doesn't actually wash away your sins, he pays for them.

Or so the dogma says. But perhaps different denominations of Christianity believe different things, I don't know. This is my understanding.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
See, you're interpreting this wrong.

As my understanding is, God does punish every sin, for he is just, but Jesus has repaid that punishment himself. He doesn't actually wash away your sins, he pays for them.

Or so the dogma says. But perhaps different denominations of Christianity believe different things, I don't know. This is my understanding.

Fundamental to Christianity is the sacrifice of a perfect man to pay the price of humanity's sins. Then the conquering of death and resurrection.

All other squabbles in Christianity are about things other than the above.

Some say Christ only rose in Spirit. Some say Christ was not a god until he was resurrected. But they all still believe in the Atonement.

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
You know I've never come across a Catholic or a Christian who automatically starts quoting from the bible to justify their faith.
Like sheep or drones, they just can't quite justify their faith by their own thoughts or experiences...

Seriously, JesusIsAlive, I ask you to justify your faith in God. In your own words & life-experience. I for one, have lost my faith in God & I have my own experiences in life to prove it.

Catholics are Christians.
I do have to add that JesusIsAlive has very rigid view that applies only to those who think as himself but excludes many other views.

Take, dadudemon for example. We're in totally different religions, but our views overlap on many many religious issues. This will be next to impossible with JesusIsAlive and others who are different in view.

I have my faith in God, and faith needs no justification. Feeling of God is personal - why and more importantly, how could one possibly justify that to you or anybody else?
It's a weird request. Faith is personal. Let us leave it that way.

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
...All must have an opportunity to either accept or reject Christ's sacrificial payment for our sins.[/COLOR]

Why? I would think that if Jesus was the son of god, then his sacrifice would have been enough to save everyone regardless of what they do. This restriction seems to limit the power of god.

Originally posted by lil bitchiness
See, you're interpreting this wrong.

As my understanding is, God does punish every sin, for he is just, but Jesus has repaid that punishment himself. He doesn't actually wash away your sins, he pays for them.

Or so the dogma says. But perhaps different denominations of Christianity believe different things, I don't know. This is my understanding.

As far as the unbeliever is concerned the only sin that will get him in Hell is the sin of rejecting Jesus Christ because Jesus has already paid for humanity's sins.

Yes, the Blood of Jesus Christ, Son of the living God does wash away our sins, if we confess Jesus Christ as Lord and believe that God has raised Him from the dead.

Revelation 1:5
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the Firstborn from the dead, and the Ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood

Originally posted by Esau Cairn
You know I've never come across a Catholic or a Christian who automatically starts quoting from the bible to justify their faith.
Like sheep or drones, they just can't quite justify their faith by their own thoughts or experiences...

Seriously, JesusIsAlive, I ask you to justify your faith in God. In your own words & life-experience. I for one, have lost my faith in God & I have my own experiences in life to prove it.

If you are referring to me quoting from the Bible I do it because "the gospel of Christ, it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek."

(Romans 1:16)

I don't really know/understand what you mean by justify my faith. My faith needs no justification. It is what it is, I believe what I believe by faith. Moreover, like the Apostle Paul said to the Corinthian church,

"my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God." (1 Corinthians 2:4-5)

My experience or thoughts are not going to save you from your sins or Hell, will not raise you from the dead, and will not be your Judge when you stand before God. You will not have to give account to God based on my life, thoughts, or experiences. Again, I believe what I believe and I chose to share that with you--but

"It is the Spirit Who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life." (John 6:63).

My thoughts and experiences will not profit you when you are on your deathbed faced with the most important decision of your life. I can only tell you that my experience of giving my heart and life to Jesus Christ for the remission of my sins is the best and most important decision I have ever made in my life because of the eternal ramifications.

My thoughts to you are that you should do the same before your soul is required of you. (Luke 12:16-20)

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
Why? I would think that if Jesus was the son of god, then his sacrifice would have been enough to save everyone regardless of what they do. This restriction seems to limit the power of god.

The sacrifice of Jesus Christ is exceedingly efficacious. But Jesus Christ is only able to save those who choose to be saved by Him. Jesus Christ will not force anyone to be saved and go to Heaven when they die. Believe it or not some people are atheists. Some people are satanists. Some people are Buddhists, Hindus, etc. Some people believe that Hell will be one big party where they will get to see their friends. Some people are evolutionists. Some people are agnostics. The lists goes on. The point is that the Lord Jesus permits humanity to choose their own way, their own destiny--Heaven or Hell. He sets before you life and death, blessing and cursing and then commands you to choose.

The Lord will only save those who want to be saved: those who choose Him.

"Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them." (Hebrews 7:25)

Originally posted by JesusIsAlive
[COLOR=darkblue]The sacrifice of Jesus Christ is exceedingly efficacious. But Jesus Christ is only able to save those who choose to be saved by Him. Jesus Christ will not force anyone to be saved and go to Heaven when they die. Believe it or not some people are atheists. Some people are satanists. Some people are Buddhists, Hindus, etc. Some people believe that Hell will be one big party where they will get to see their friends. Some people are evolutionists. Some people are agnostics. The lists goes on. The point is that the Lord Jesus permits humanity to choose their own way, their own destiny--Heaven or Hell. He sets before you life and death, blessing and cursing and then commands you to choose.

The Lord will only save those who want to be saved: those who choose Him.

I don't believe in human sacrifice. This idea that humans are condemned to go to hell, unless there is a scapegoat, is stupidity at it's highest level.

Hell is a state of mind that we choose to enter or leave.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I don't believe in human sacrifice. This idea that humans are condemned to go to hell, unless there is a scapegoat, is stupidity at it's highest level.

Hell is a state of mind that we choose to enter or leave.

You don't believe in human sacrifice? Well do you believe in human death?

Death is a fact of life whether you believe in it or not.

Why do you believe that Hell is a state of mind?

I believe that Hell is a literal place based on the Biblical record.