Thor vs Superman (Pure strength)

Originally posted by cdtm
They talk with sub frequency communicators.

Re read the mongul training story.

And I hope you're not seriously arguing anyone could breath in space.

In my experience being shown without a mask or talking in space does not prove that you can breathe in a vacuum (Not even sure I've ever seen that) unless accompanied by some other evidence. It doesn't mean that you no longer require air either. It's definitely evidence that the being in question can survive in space unaided for a time but I think it's incorrect to assume it's anything more than holding one's breath. There are probably some exceptions though.

That being said, over the years Superman has become less and less depended on oxygen to the point it's no longer a real issue. If he can't survive without oxygen indefinitely (Imo most writers assume that to be the case although it's never actually been put to the test as far as I know), one dip into any carbon live sustaining environment/atmosphere should provide him with all the oxygen his body needs for such a significant amount of time that it's not even a point worth bringing up in a discussion.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Based on?

Re read the Mongul training story.

That's how they talk in space.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
In my experience being shown without a mask or talking in space does not prove that you can breathe in a vacuum (Not even sure I've ever seen that) unless accompanied by some other evidence. It doesn't mean that you no longer require air either. It's definitely evidence that the being in question can survive in space unaided for a time but I think it's incorrect to assume it's anything more than holding one's breath. There are probably some exceptions though.

That being said, over the years Superman has become less and less depended on oxygen to the point it's no longer a real issue. If he can't survive without oxygen indefinitely (Imo most writers assume that to be the case although it's never actually been put to the test as far as I know), one dip into any carbon live sustaining environment/atmosphere should provide him with all the oxygen his body needs for such a significant amount of time that it's not even a point worth bringing up in a discussion.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Can you cite any instance like this where superman needs to hold his breath after mongul's training other than cornell's? Before that in Last god of krypton, it was directly stated that he can't breath on the surface of sun and would've died if lois didn't saved him, now compare that with Superman/batman 13 where Kal beat the crap out of darkseid with a full conversation on the surface of sun.

Post Loeb era? Honestly can't think of any but then, I don't really have to.

I'm not saying that Clark can or cannot survive without oxygen forever but using the lack of masks or talking in space as conclusive prove is just extremely faulty if the precedence set by characters like Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Classic Thor etc. is any evidence.

Like I said, Clark has grown so much less depended on oxygen since the Bryne days that it's not even a point really worth mentioning. The last time I remember it being a problem besides the Cornell issue was in like 1996.

Originally posted by cdtm

That's how they talk in space.

http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u131/jason-todd/Jimscomic233.jpg

Originally posted by abhilegend
Should I post superman and darkseid having a conversation on the surface of the sun? He was just getting the training when they are talking? Its pretty hard to hold your breath with your mouth open, don't you think

I repeat, you need more conclusive evidence than that. Just because a character can talk in space doesn't mean that they aren't holding they're breath or no longer require any oxygen.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Post Loeb era? Honestly can't think of any but then, I don't really have to.

I'm not saying that Clark can or cannot survive without oxygen forever but using the lack of masks or talking in space as conclusive prove is just extremely faulty if the precedence set by characters like Wonder Woman, Aquaman, Classic Thor etc. is any evidence.

Like I said, Clark has grown so much less depended on oxygen since the Bryne days that it's not even a point really worth mentioning. The last time I remember it being a problem besides the Cornell issue was in like 1996.

Not really, diana has been shown multiple times that she needs to hold her breath or needs a mask like here

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/Untitled-Scanned-02.jpg

The main object which WW fangirls toss to this i.e. Superman/Batman 56 or 57 where diana talks on moon is non-canon. I know about the scan where arthur is shown talking in space with superman and all the leagures were floating in space without protection. I guess the writer was a dumbass. Classic thor couldn't survive space indefinitely? News to me, I thought thor has said that he doesn't need to breath.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I repeat, you need more conclusive evidence than that. Just because a character can talk in space doesn't mean that they aren't holding they're breath or no longer require any oxygen.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Not really, diana has been shown multiple times that she needs to hold her breath or needs a mask like here

http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k508/abhilegend/DC/Untitled-Scanned-02.jpg

The main object which WW fangirls toss to this i.e. Superman/Batman 56 or 57 where diana talks on moon is non-canon. I know about the scan where arthur is shown talking in space with superman and all the leagures were floating in space without protection. I guess the writer was a dumbass. Classic thor couldn't survive space indefinitely? News to me, I thought thor has said that he doesn't need to breath.

Yes really because I've seen Diana in space without a mask or underwater a few times in the past. Pretty sure both her and Donna Try have talked in space before. Even Aquaman has been in space without a mask. Yes, Thor still needs oxygen, but he can simply hold his breath for a very long time. Same goes for Sif and most other regular Asgardians.

I've even seen early Savage Hulk talk in space and he also needs oxygen. We've also seen Martians needing air when Diana beat Primus by holding her breath longer.

I repeat, talking in space is not evidence that one no longer needs oxygen. At best it's evidence that they can survive in space for some amount of time and can hold their breath.

I'm honestly very surprised that this concept is new to you, Superman while needing to breath (The scene I'm thinking of was during Jurgen's run) has been to space, fought in space, and talked in space without an apparatus more than once. Besides that, I thought it was like common knowledge.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Guess the on-panel statement that mongul taught him how to breath or superboy wondering how he could breath in space and about a bajillion showings of him and other kryptonians not needing to breath are for naught!! Curses.

If Mongul taught Superman how to breath in space (I'd have to re-read the scene to be sure), then that's fine.

I'm not out to prove that Superman definitely needs oxygen, I'm just pointing out how incredibly flawed it is to use the lack of an apparatus or talking in space as evidence for him not needing it.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

If Mongul taught Superman how to breath in space (I'd have to re-read the scene to be sure), then that's fine.

I'm not out to prove that Superman definitely needs oxygen, I'm just pointing out how incredibly flawed it is to use the lack of an apparatus or talking in space as evidence for him not needing it.

Yeah, and even the pre crisis era didn't try and sell that Superman could breath and talk in space! They used some excuse like being able to simulate frequencies with their vocal cords or something.. (Like when Superman chatted with Vartox on one occasion, and an explanation on how that was even possible was in a caption.)

The altered design of their speech bubbles in the scans abh posted usually indicates they're using some kind of enhanced method of communication.

Supergirl almost passed out/died from going too long without oxygen in an (obviously) post OWAW story. I know its not Superman himself but since she wasnt raised on Earth and didnt have all the "mental blocks" that Suerman had that were supposedly responsible for his need for oxygen at the time i suppose it muddies the waters a bit.

Originally posted by cdtm

That's how they talk in space.

Originally posted by cdtm

That's how they talk in space.

In this same comic, Superman admitted that the gravity on Earth weakens his powers. That's why I don't take his space ft as high as everyone does.

Originally posted by cdtm

That's how they talk in space.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Yes really because I've seen Diana in space without a mask or underwater a few times in the past. Pretty sure both her and Donna Try have talked in space before. Even Aquaman has been in space without a mask. Yes, Thor still needs oxygen, but he can simply hold his breath for a very long time. Same goes for Sif and most other regular Asgardians.

I've even seen early Savage Hulk talk in space and he also needs oxygen. We've also seen Martians needing air when Diana beat Primus by holding her breath longer.

I repeat, talking in space is not evidence that one no longer needs oxygen. At best it's evidence that they can survive in space for some amount of time and can hold their breath.

I'm honestly very surprised that this concept is new to you, Superman while needing to breath (The scene I'm thinking of was during Jurgen's run) has been to space, fought in space, and talked in space without an apparatus more than once. Besides that, I thought it was like common knowledge.

If Mongul taught Superman how to breath in space (I'd have to re-read the scene to be sure), then that's fine.

I'm not out to prove that Superman definitely needs oxygen, I'm just pointing out how incredibly flawed it is to use the lack of an apparatus or talking in space as evidence for him not needing it.

Originally posted by cdtm
Yeah, and even the pre crisis era didn't try and sell that Superman could breath and talk in space! They used some excuse like being able to simulate frequencies with their vocal cords or something.. (Like when Superman chatted with Vartox on one occasion, and an explanation on how that was even possible was in a caption.)

The altered design of their speech bubbles in the scans abh posted usually indicates they're using some kind of enhanced method of communication.

We all know sometimes writers & editors make mistakes sometimes. Once in the past decade they depicted Captain Marvel as needing a space helmet to breathe in space - completely overlooking he doesn't need to eat or breathe in that form.

As far as communicating in space, sometimes they don't want a plausible explanation at the time and just let it happen.

Originally posted by Fifthchild
Supergirl almost passed out/died from going too long without oxygen in an (obviously) post OWAW story. I know its not Superman himself but since she wasnt raised on Earth and didnt have all the "mental blocks" that Suerman had that were supposedly responsible for his need for oxygen at the time i suppose it muddies the waters a bit.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I agree with your interpretation and from now on will not take abh at his word any longer. It's been a while since I looked at this stuff and something this minor would have never stood out to begin with in the first place.

Originally posted by carver9
In this same comic, Superman admitted that the gravity on Earth weakens his powers. That's why I don't take his space ft as high as everyone does.

Originally posted by abhilegend
When was this? There were a number of supergirls at that time and none of them were kryptonians. Can you give any issue numbers?

Who gives a damn about what you think about my opinion?

Lulz. When was this? Give me issue number or scans. Knowing you its probably something entirely different.

It happened during the time Mongul and Superman was on Earth and Mongul asked Superman to look through the clouds and try to see Imperiex. Superman told Mongul that "the Earth gravity weakens his powers to an extent and that he was incapable of doing what Mongul asked". No need to make anything up, its true.

Originally posted by carver9
It happened during the time Mongul and Superman was on Earth and Mongul asked Superman to look through the clouds and try to see Imperiex. Superman told Mongul that "the Earth gravity weakens his powers to an extent and that he was incapable of doing what Mongul asked". No need to make anything up, its true.

Originally posted by abhilegend
It was due to mental blocks he had in his mind. That was what superman believed was his inability to see to the pluto. If you'd read the comic, you would've known this. Sadly that isn't the case.

So what I said was true?