^What maggedon did before reaching earth is irrelevant because it only activates upon reaching a planet. You can "doubt" till you're blue in the face, doesn't means anything in the face of this
Originally posted by abhilegend
Oh carver how many times can you be wrongYou always ask for on panel proof, "turning the endless millwheels of maggedon". J'onn didn't say "Superman and other humans" were turning the wheels of maggedon.
Originally posted by abhilegend
I'm tired of correcting your lowballing of superman. Do you hate superman or something? I know you love captain marvel, lobo, gl and all other guys but only lowball superman, why? Do you have any proof or its just carver's "human were pulling chains"? J'onn clearly states that it was superman "pulling the endless millwheels of maggedon", not "superman and some other techno-constructs were pulling the endless millwheels of maggedon". Where did you find that the wheels were moving before and your doubting at this point is just short of meaningless to me.
Why would Jonn say "Superman and others"?
Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
The same can be said about the the Serpent feat. It being anchored by the world tree is, by all logic ridiculous, but its comic and magic is a big part of Thor's comic. Its one of those things that can never ever be explained or quantified using real life science.Sure, we can try and apply math and shit, but most of the time, we will fail due to the fact that all these feats were made and thought of by the writers to show how impressive the character is and does not consider real world science.
I will adimit that the 100 earth weight is an exaggeration, but does show that Thor is at least in the same ball park as Superman strength wise. Thor isn't necessarily stronger but he's up there. If you can accept this then we have nothing to argue about.
As for f=ma, the larger the object, given that acceleration remains constant the more force is applied. I believe that problem lies with the misconception of equating that mass and weight are the same thing. Mass is in kg or lbs while weight is in Newtons or force lbs. Weight is the force due to gravity. Which by itself is already proof that Mass is directly proportional to force since gravity is the acceleration due to the pull of the earth and a larger object would have a larger impact on the earth's surface due to its larger mass.
Although moot, on average and at best Superman is somewhat stronger than Thor. It appears as if they are similar sometimes because Thor hits with a hammer and Superman his bare fists. With that said, the strength advantage will only play a role when or if they grappled. Meaning, both can hurt each other with their attacks and withstand at least a couple of attacks from each other. Thus the fight will ultimately be played out because of other factors (like speed vs. versatility).
I understand that most argue averages here but there are problems with that. No one's average is the same and people don't actually average anything. For example, a character can have 1 or 2 bad showings vs. hundreds of good showings yet Quanchi and some others will argue that those 2 bad showings bring down the majority good showings to the halfway mark between the two. This is ridiculous. A few bad showings in the light of countless good ones should be thrown out since they add no weight when ACTUALLY averaged out with the rest. Also, the second problem is the character doesn't fight at his best as shown before, as forum rule suggests.
With that said, f=ma should be the deciding factor since it is the very definition of force. You said, the Earth is being anchored by the tree. This is not the case, as you are saying, since the Earth is constantly falling towards the Sun and has been moved out of orbit several times in Marvel. Prehaps the anchor the tree gives Earth either has a great deal of slack (the Earth can only move so many million miles before the tree stops it) or the anchor isn't a physical one at all and the Earth is really free to move anywhere.
Lastly, Thor has been one of the most inconsistent written characters throughout his history. He succumbs to bullets, Ulik, Mongoose, vans, ... then has great feats such as one shotting Ulik and Thing.
Originally posted by rotiart
Lol? You thinki need help?
If F=ma
Then logically a =f/m
Explaining acceleration can be determined by knowing the force applied divided by the mass..Explain how you determined what the acceleration was I arrived at the force...
And also you haven't explained how you arrived at the change in the velocity I the object over time to arrive at the force ecause it isn't explained in the object
And the force necessary for an object to leave space has to take into account either continual force or initial force. With rockets we can't get te initial force necessary so to help lift them we apply continual force
A "superman" feat such as moving a static object that is not moving would need initial force to move a testing object....
You can't show the rate of acceleration, change in velocity or even change in time.
Means you can't determine the actual force by only knowin the mass.So what do you do? Hia8 you make up a bunch of numbers to plug in to make your numbers work.
Very good! Now you finally see.
I explained clearly where I got the acceleration from when I posted the calculations. Actually, the acceleration is BELOW (or is an underestimate) of what it reasonably was. It's very easy to find underestimates when true values are unknown. For example, if someone lifts a mountain then we can give an underestimate of 100 tons (although this is a great underestimate). Another example, if someone moves millions of miles through space in a few moments of time then it is easy to see that the accelerating is at least 1mi/s^2. Hell the Earth is moving at about 18.5mi/s yet it takes about 4 months for it to travel 93 million miles.
Originally posted by abhilegend
The ultimate strength test is how characters interact with each other.
I agree but we have to use strength feats for characters of different companies who never interacted. Otherwise, we have no logical way to compare.
Also, characters that do interact must interact in a similar vein outside to other characters or situations as well. For example, we know that Spider-man against Firelord was PIS since we seen outside interactions between the two. This is why I disagree that Ulik is anywhere near Thor's physical level. Some writer's write characters down a bit in order for them to have competition. This is why Spider-man beat Firelord. Ulik IMO, is slightly above Thing or Colossus level as his outside showings suggest. Colossus went toe to toe with both Gladiator and Hulk before but it's his outside showings that say otherwise.
Originally posted by rotiart
Lol Hia8. You never proved distance or time. So you never for an instant proved anything. You also never take into account exchanges of energy or friction or gravity opposite.Basically you fail.
I don't get you when you say take into account exchanges of energy or friction. And what is gravity opposite?
Originally posted by h1a8
You still don't understand what underestimates are? They take away the need to prove the exact numbers since in most comics we don't have them. Let me ask you something. If Thor lifts Asgard with Bill then do you really have to prove that he supplied more than 500 tons of force? Shouldn't it be clear that Thor exerted more than 500 tons of force? Who cares where the 500 came from since it was a number KNOWN to be an underestimate by common sense.I don't get you when you say take into account exchanges of energy or friction. And what is gravity opposite?
Gravity exerts a force in the opposite direction that you are pulling. Making it harder to move an object on earth then say on pluto. It is the opposing force.
Also in the mageddon feat we have superman pushing or pulling chains that turn the wheels to a device.
Think of a bicycle. You can achieve faster speeds by having better construction, better gears, etc regardless of the rider. Where on guy could hit 25mph in one bike another bike he might hit forty.
You ignore facts like that.
Also if superman were directly pulling something what other factors such as pulling a static object into motion with no opposing forces did you not consider like friction or gravity or even air resistance.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
H1a8 stop with the 50 Earth weight.Has even one Superman writer agreed with your analysis? Has even 1 Superman fan agreed with it??
Either show us an on panel statement by the narrator saying Superman was putting in that kind of force, or move on from that argument.
Writers aren't fanboys like us. Writers write for the "sake of the story" the writer makes up facts simple because they know this is "fiction. That none o this really happened." and they don't care about the science because to advance the story they know that people will need to ignore the fact " that the science is sometimes faulty."
;-)
Originally posted by rotiart
Gravity exerts a force in the opposite direction that you are pulling. Making it harder to move an object on earth then say on pluto. It is the opposing force.Also in the mageddon feat we have superman pushing or pulling chains that turn the wheels to a device.
Think of a bicycle. You can achieve faster speeds by having better construction, better gears, etc regardless of the rider. Where on guy could hit 25mph in one bike another bike he might hit forty.
You ignore facts like that.
Also if superman were directly pulling something what other factors such as pulling a static object into motion with no opposing forces did you not consider like friction or gravity or even air resistance.
Those chains and gears look rusty; I bet Superman would have a much easier time if he had some WD40.