Thor & Hercules Vs Thanos

Originally posted by Stoic
I have as much evidence to suggest that he wasn't than anyone has in suggesting that he was. What on panel during that battle, did he do that he was incapable of doing without the Gem? He tore up things which he could do without it right?

What i am suggesting is that on panel it said that Thor was only tapping the Gem on a subconscious level, This implies that he was inept at its usage, and was in no way capable of using it on the level that Warlock would be able to.

Ask yourself this question. If Warlock was switched out for Thor, and fought Thanos with the Gem, how do you see the fight going? Just remember that the Gem allows the wielder to possess infinite strength, durability, and any power that they can use would be amplified to an infinite degree. Does that seem to be the level on which Thor was operating at?

You don't really have evidence at all. You assuming Thor didn't really tap into the PG during BT is kind of ridiculous. It was stated on panel that he was growing stronger by the second and according to Strange he'd grow strong enough to destroy Asgard and eventually the Universe fueled by the PG. But despite this, according to you Thor wasn't tapping into the PG much...which is contradicted by the evidence.

*Edit:

FYI I'd prefer not to answer your straw mans, because I've never said Thor was operating at "infinite" strength levels. I only said he was clearly much stronger than a regular Thor without the PG.

Originally posted by vince_slice
You don't really have evidence at all. You assuming Thor didn't really tap into the PG during BT is kind of ridiculous. It was stated on panel that he was growing stronger by the second and according to Strange he'd grow strong enough to destroy Asgard and eventually the Universe fueled by the PG. But despite this, according to you Thor wasn't tapping into the PG much...which is contradicted by the evidence.

*Edit:

FYI I'd prefer not to answer your straw mans, because I've never said Thor was operating at "infinite" strength levels. I only said he was clearly much stronger than a regular Thor without the PG.

When was it stated that he was tapping into the Gem subconsciously? Was it before or after he was trapped in the force block? This is the evidence. You not being willing to admit this is up to you, but that would be on you. What did it say on panel in terms of linear events?

Edit: I wasn't setting up any strawman tactics, you simply want to see things the way that you wish, and perhaps not the way that they were. I have no proof that he wasn't tapping the Gem all along, but prior evidence suggests that Thor would need time in order to acclimate himself with the usage of the Gem. Is he somehow different from all of the others that used it, and needed to acclimate themselves with it? Did Odin tap into the infinite in order to burst Thanos' force cube when he tore out of it?

Originally posted by Stoic
When was it stated that he was tapping into the Gem subconsciously? Was it before or after he was trapped in the force block? This is the evidence. You not being willing to admit this is up to you, but that would be on you. What did it say on panel in terms of linear events?

Actually, I answered that question already. You should really pay attention to my posts.

So are you really suggesting that Thor only started tapping into the PG after he got trapped, but all the other times he had the PG he wasn't using it? That to me sounds ludicrous.

Originally posted by vince_slice
Actually, I answered that question already. You should really pay attention to my posts.

So are you really suggesting that Thor only started tapping into the PG after he got trapped, but all the other times he had the PG he wasn't using it? That to me sounds ludicrous.

You answered my question it seems, while I answered yours. My guess is that ignorance is a two way street. It doesn't have to be, because this is a discussion about fictional characters, and not about someone about to ruin your life. Right?

As ludicrous as it may seem, Thor was said to only be tapping into the Gem on any level once he was trapped in the force block, unless I'm forgetting something, this is why I'm asking you. I have the comic, but it's packed away, and I'm not willing to go out into my shed to get it in order for you or someone else to correct any misstep that I may be making.

I mentioned how easily Odin popped the force block that he was placed in, and have a difficult time believing that he was operating at infinite levels of strength to do so. What we can see from just that one example is that Thor was below Odin's level in terms of strength, and power, and he had the Gem. over-hype leads many people to misjudge things when they should not. I have been guilty of doing this a few times.

Originally posted by Stoic
You answered my question it seems, while I answered yours. My guess is that ignorance is a two way street. It doesn't have to be, because this is a discussion about fictional characters, and not about someone about to ruin your life. Right?

As ludicrous as it may seem, Thor was said to only be tapping into the Gem on any level once he was trapped in the force block, unless I'm forgetting something, this is why I'm asking you. I have the comic, but it's packed away, and I'm not willing to go out into my shed to get it in order for you or someone else to correct any misstep that I may be making.

I mentioned how easily Odin popped the force block that he was placed in, and have a difficult time believing that he was operating at infinite levels of strength to do so. What we can see from just that one example is that Thor was below Odin's level in terms of strength, and power, and he had the Gem. over-hype leads many people to misjudge things when they should not. I have been guilty of doing this a few times.

Yeah but just because the comic explained Thor was subconsciously tapping into the PG after he was trapped isn't evidence that that's the time he started using it...Think of it from the writer's intent, why would the writer have Thor get the PG only to not use it during the Thanos fight, and than start using it when force blocked? Makes no sense to me.

Thor might not be fully tapping the gem to it's infinite levels, but he was tapping into it with enough power that I would consider him much stronger than a regular Thor. I mean I thought this was common sense: BT Thor with a PG is logically stronger than regular Thor without the PG.

I have the scans for all 13 issues in my external hard drive. I would've grabbed them a long time ago if my power plug worked for it.

Thanos

Originally posted by vince_slice
Yeah but just because the comic explained Thor was subconsciously tapping into the PG after he was trapped isn't evidence that that's the time he started using it...Think of it from the writer's intent, why would the writer have Thor get the PG only to not use it during the Thanos fight, and than start using it when force blocked? Makes no sense to me.

Thor might not be fully tapping the gem to it's infinite levels, but he was tapping into it with enough power that I would consider him much stronger than a regular Thor. I mean I thought this was common sense: BT Thor with a PG is logically stronger than regular Thor without the PG.

I have the scans for all 13 issues in my external hard drive. I would've grabbed them a long time ago if my power plug worked for it.

This is my thing. Titania, while having a clear mind was incapable of lifting a 100 ton boulder, which ended up falling on her, and she was being told how to use the Gem, this type of thing went on for some time before she was able to become acclimated, and comfortable with being able to consciously tap the Gem. Thor had no tutelage, and was in a state of near berserker rage.

Drax was also of a similar intellect as Thor was at the time of his possession of the Gem. let's delve deeper into Drax, and just how strong he was without the Gem. Drax was strong enough to overpower the Surfer, and nearly break his neck when they first met in his newly infantile incarnated huge body. Thor dropped him like a peg, and Drax had the Gem. How much was Drax taping the Gem at that time? It was also said that he was tapping the Gem on a subconscious level.

Odin was trapped in a block of force by Thanos, and unless it was the shoddy second rate version of the force block that he used on Thor, he broke out of it very fast. Thor with the PG was unable to, and only after being held was it stated that he began to grow in power.

Thor may have been as strong as he normally is, or slightly stronger, but it wasn't anywhere near the power that Warlock, or even Titania was throwing around. Thor could not have been taping it, because he did not know how to use it. If this does not make any sense to you then go on the premise that Thanos would be able to oneshot Thor, and a conflict between him and Thor wouldn't last for more than 3-4 panels. If you think this, you may be underestimating Thor, despite his stupendous performances prior or since the battle. Just recall one thing. Thor was going for broke, and not holding back.

Originally posted by zopzop
Aren't every single one of those scans from What Ifs or other alt reality versions of Herc?

Thanos.

Originally posted by Stoic
As ludicrous as it may seem, Thor was said to only be tapping into the Gem on any level once he was trapped in the force block, unless I'm forgetting something, this is why I'm asking you. I have the comic, but it's packed away, and I'm not willing to go out into my shed to get it in order for you or someone else to correct any misstep that I may be making.

It was indeed mentioned that he was tapping into the Power Gem an issue or two before the confrontation with Thanos. I forgot if it was Dr. Strange or Moondragon that mentioned it (hell could have been Adam Warlock) I forget cause all three were there.

EDIT :

Here are the scans -
Adam mentions it

Dr. Strange mentions it

This happened in Thor 470.

But Zopzop those scans are bs.... as it proves Thanos was fighting a Thor that was constantly amping, Thanos feats can only be lowballed 🙂

.

I have a hard time believing Thanos will beat Hercules alone just using fists. This fight is pretty lopsided in favor of Thor and Hercules (with or without weapons).

Originally posted by carver9
Thor alone would give Thanos fits...add Herc and they win.

Not even Rage believes this... why should you?

Originally posted by Stoic
I have as much evidence to suggest that he wasn't than anyone has in suggesting that he was. What on panel during that battle, did he do that he was incapable of doing without the Gem? He tore up things which he could do without it right?

What i am suggesting is that on panel it said that Thor was only tapping the Gem on a subconscious level, This implies that he was inept at its usage, and was in no way capable of using it on the level that Warlock would be able to.

Ask yourself this question. If Warlock was switched out for Thor, and fought Thanos with the Gem, how do you see the fight going? Just remember that the Gem allows the wielder to possess infinite strength, durability, and any power that they can use would be amplified to an infinite degree. Does that seem to be the level on which Thor was operating at?

Did you honestly even read the fight in awhile. His own words when he was fighting the IW and surfer prove he was using the Gem.. and clearly doing so.

Originally posted by h1a8
I have a hard time believing Thanos will beat Hercules alone just using fists. This fight is pretty lopsided in favor of Thor and Hercules (with or without weapons).

Originally posted by Stoic
As ludicrous as it may seem, Thor was said to only be tapping into the Gem on any level once he was trapped in the force block, unless I'm forgetting something, this is why I'm asking you. I have the comic, but it's packed away, and I'm not willing to go out into my shed to get it in order for you or someone else to correct any misstep that I may be making.

Looks like zopzop just made your day.

Originally posted by Stoic
If this does not make any sense to you then go on the premise that Thanos would be able to oneshot Thor, and a conflict between him and Thor wouldn't last for more than 3-4 panels. If you think this, you may be underestimating Thor, despite his stupendous performances prior or since the battle. Just recall one thing. Thor was going for broke, and not holding back.

Highly doubt Thanos can one-shot Thor but I don't think the bolded is too far off. Would you think a conflict between Surfer and Thanos lasting only 7 panels (3 panels more than what you suggested with Thor) be too crazy? Because that's exactly how many panels it took for Thanos to beat Surfer within in inch of his life. Assuming Thor and Surfer have roughly equal durability, if Thor tried tanking the same shots he'd end up in the same shape as Surfer more or less (near death).

I'm not underestimating Thor, are you sure its not you that's underestimating Thanos?

Originally posted by vince_slice
Looks like zopzop just made your day.

Highly doubt Thanos can one-shot Thor but I don't think the bolded is too far off. Would you think a conflict between Surfer and Thanos lasting only 7 panels (3 panels more than what you suggested with Thor) be too crazy? Because that's exactly how many panels it took for Thanos to beat Surfer within in inch of his life. Assuming Thor and Surfer have roughly equal durability, if Thor tried tanking the same shots he'd end up in the same shape as Surfer more or less (near death).

I'm not underestimating Thor, are you sure its not you that's underestimating Thanos?

That scan shows me that Thor was subconsciously tapping from the Power Gem, and not actively tapping from it. Other scans show that he was not actively tapping from the PG. The scene in question, and the one that we should be concentrating on, is the battle between Thor and Thanos.

That scan should in no way allow people to pop out of the cracks claiming more than what happened in every panel since Thor gained possession of the Power Gem. Drax had bursts that he tapped into the Power Gem, but this was on a subconscious level, and as I pointed out earlier was not him tapping into it on an active level. There is a difference in the two words.

The book even states that Thor was tapping into it on a subconscious level, and as I stated earlier, only after he was placed into the force block did he begin tapping from the Gem, which was also stated on panel.

I'm not underestimating Thanos, I just don't believe that he would beat anyone that was using the Power Gem properly, or actively tapping from it. Thor is not the Silver Surfer. Thor has the Hammer. What was the ful context of the Surfer taking that horrible beating from Thanos? Was he fully prepared before the mugging happened? Was he given ample time to amplify? The Surfer also does not fight the same as Thor does, so he could have all of the power that he wants to have, but if he fights like an idiot, guys like Thanos will always defeat him.

Khoon beat the Surfer soundly as well, but this does not mean that he would beat Thor. Let me make myself clear. I don't think that Thor would beat Thanos, and never have, but I don't believe that thanos would beat him in 7 panels with or without the PG.

If Thor was actively tapping the Gem on the level that Adam Warlock could, and can, Thanos would have been slaughtered. People stating that Thor was operating at 2x his base while using the Gem are speculating, as it was never stated on panel what percentage that he was using the Power Gem.

@Stoic

You are speculating that it wasn't two times his normal strength. We do know he was amped by the power gem. That's a fact. Thanos is a great deal more powerful than Thor so acting like he'd slaughter Thanos is just about as extreme as you can get without any proof. Quit speculating and acting like other posters can't do the same.

Originally posted by quanchi112
@Stoic

You are speculating that it wasn't two times his normal strength. We do know he was amped by the power gem. That's a fact. Thanos is a great deal more powerful than Thor so acting like he'd slaughter Thanos is just about as extreme as you can get without any proof. Quit speculating and acting like other posters can't do the same.

Are you trying to say that Adam Warlock with the Power Gem would have a problem slaughtering Thanos?