Originally posted by quanchi112
I am saying Thor was amped and is far more powerful than warlock is.
With the Power gem it would not matter, because Warlock would be far more powerful than Thor if he were using it. He knows how to actively tap into it, whereas Thor was tapping into it on a subconscious level. This means that we have no idea when he was tapping into it during his fight with Thanos, or if he was tapping into it, because he simply did not possess the knowledge of how to use the Gem and unlock it's full potential.
Originally posted by Stoic
That scan shows me that Thor was subconsciously tapping from the Power Gem, and not actively tapping from it. Other scans show that he was not actively tapping from the PG. The scene in question, and the one that we should be concentrating on, is the battle between Thor and Thanos.
You claimed that Thor didn't start tapping into the PG until he was force blocked. Zopzop's scans proved that you were absolutely wrong. Now you're coming up with yet another excuse claiming Thor wasn't amped with the PG when he fought Thanos only (with zero evidence to back your claim, how convenient). You're starting to smell a little desperate. What proof do you have that Thor stopped using the PG in his Thanos fight?
That scan should in no way allow people to pop out of the cracks claiming more than what happened in every panel since Thor gained possession of the Power Gem. Drax had bursts that he tapped into the Power Gem, but this was on a subconscious level, and as I pointed out earlier was not him tapping into it on an active level. There is a difference in the two words.
Take your own advice, you're the one vomiting excuse after excuse when you're proven wrong. First you claim Thor didn't really use the PG in BT, then you claim he only used it while force blocked, now you're claiming he stopped using it when he fought Thanos. Who's "popping out of the cracks" and "claiming more than what happened" now?
We know that Thor was tapping into the PG subconsciously and growing stronger the longer he had it, we know he tapped into the PG before the Thanos fight. Common sense tells us he was amped with the PG when he fought Thanos and was growing stronger as the fight went on and would've overpowered Thanos eventually. It's that simple, this isn't rocket science, this is comic books. Do you have proof Thor randomly stopped using the PG subconsciously as soon as he entered the Thanos fight?
The book even states that Thor was tapping into it on a subconscious level, and as I stated earlier, only after he was placed into the force block did he begin tapping from the Gem, which was also stated on panel.
I'm not underestimating Thanos, I just don't believe that he would beat anyone that was using the Power Gem properly, or actively tapping from it. Thor is not the Silver Surfer. Thor has the Hammer. What was the ful context of the Surfer taking that horrible beating from Thanos? Was he fully prepared before the mugging happened? Was he given ample time to amplify? The Surfer also does not fight the same as Thor does, so he could have all of the power that he wants to have, but if he fights like an idiot, guys like Thanos will always defeat him.
Here's the context: Surfer blasts Thanos while bull-rushing him, Thanos casually blocks his blast with one hand and proceeds to physically beat down Surfer until he is literally near death (in 7 panels). Thanos takes Surfer to give to Death as a gift (hence why he kept Surfer with only a spark of life left). Death rejects Thanos; Thanos with a mere gesture restores all of Surfer's life back.
Khoon beat the Surfer soundly as well, but this does not mean that he would beat Thor. Let me make myself clear. I don't think that Thor would beat Thanos, and never have, but I don't believe that thanos would beat him in 7 panels with or without the PG.
No one claimed Thanos was beating Thor with the PG in 7 panels. Rather, Thanos should be able to beat Thor with more or less difficulty than any other high herald he beats (which isn't much). The fact that a high-end BT Thor with the PG only stalemated Thanos logically shows that an average Thor without the PG would get beaten. Or are you also going to argue that Thor operates at his BT levels on average?
If Thor was actively tapping the Gem on the level that Adam Warlock could, and can, Thanos would have been slaughtered. People stating that Thor was operating at 2x his base while using the Gem are speculating, as it was never stated on panel what percentage that he was using the Power Gem.
Again, no one claimed Thor was using the PG to it's full potential. Only that the PG amped Thor making him significantly stronger than his regular self. This is not speculation, this is what happened in the comic. You're the one "speculating" because you're the one making a claim--that Thor wasn't amped with the PG when he fought Thanos--with zero proof that he stopped amping. That's the very definition of speculation: claiming something without evidence.
Is it that hard for you to believe Thanos was stalemating a high-end Thor who was progressively amping with the PG? Given more time Thanos would've of lost eventually. Is this too extreme a view for you?
Originally posted by vince_slice
You claimed that Thor didn't start tapping into the PG until he was force blocked. Zopzop's scans proved that [b]you were absolutely wrong. Now you're coming up with yet another excuse claiming Thor wasn't amped with the PG when he fought Thanos only (with zero evidence to back your claim, how convenient). You're starting to smell a little desperate. What proof do you have that Thor stopped using the PG in his Thanos fight?Take your own advice, you're the one vomiting excuse after excuse when you're proven wrong. First you claim Thor didn't really use the PG in BT, then you claim he only used it while force blocked, now you're claiming he stopped using it when he fought Thanos. Who's "popping out of the cracks" and "claiming more than what happened" now?
We know that Thor was tapping into the PG subconsciously and growing stronger the longer he had it, we know he tapped into the PG before the Thanos fight. Common sense tells us he was amped with the PG when he fought Thanos and was growing stronger as the fight went on and would've overpowered Thanos eventually. It's that simple, this isn't rocket science, this is comic books. Do you have proof Thor randomly stopped using the PG subconsciously as soon as he entered the Thanos fight?
The book also states Thor tapped into the PG and started using it just before he fought Thanos, so this is not relevant.
I was comparing something specific, their durability. But we know that Surfer and Thor are peers and nearly equals (they even have similar versatility). This is further reinforced based on their most current fight in The Mighty Thor. If Thanos can so easily neutralize Surfer solo he'd likely be able to do so to Thor with more or less difficulty.
Here's the context: Surfer blasts Thanos while bull-rushing him, Thanos casually blocks his blast with one hand and proceeds to physically beat down Surfer until he is literally near death (in 7 panels). Thanos takes Surfer to give to Death as a gift (hence why he kept Surfer with only a spark of life left). Death rejects Thanos; Thanos with a mere gesture restores all of Surfer's life back.
No one claimed Thanos was beating Thor with the PG in 7 panels. Rather, Thanos should be able to beat Thor with more or less difficulty than any other high herald he beats (which isn't much). The fact that a high-end BT Thor with the PG only stalemated Thanos logically shows that an average Thor without the PG would get beaten. Or are you also going to argue that Thor operates at his BT levels on average?
Again, no one claimed Thor was using the PG to it's full potential. Only that the PG amped Thor making him significantly stronger than his regular self. This is not speculation, this is what happened in the comic. You're the one "speculating" because you're the one making a claim--that Thor wasn't amped with the PG when he fought Thanos--with zero proof that he stopped amping. That's the very definition of speculation: claiming something without evidence.
Is it that hard for you to believe Thanos was stalemating a high-end Thor who was progressively amping with the PG? Given more time Thanos would've of lost eventually. Is this too extreme a view for you? [/B]
You're putting words down that I never wrote. My whole stance was, and is that we did not know how much Thor was tapping into the Power Gem. It was never stated on panel that he was, it was only stated that he was subconsciously tapping into it. Drax subconsciously tapped into the Power Gem, and look how easily he was defeated by Thor, yet alone someone who is more powerful than Thor at base levels (Thanos).
Now my question to you is this. If Adam Warlock had possession of the Power Gem, do you believe that Thanos would be able to do anything other than be defeated soundly? All of that stuff that you just typed was for nothing, because it still does not overturn the fact that on panel Thor was not actively tapping into the Power Gem. Thor did not know how to actively tap into the Power Gem. So unless the writer messed up on the true power that can be taken from the Power Gem, people need to stop claiming that Thanos has the power to take on a Power Gem wielder, who actually knows how to use the Power gem adeptly and not one inept at its usage. If you don't get what i am saying, and have been saying all along, that's on you bud.
Can you tell me what percentage Thor was using the Power Gem on? No you can not, because it never stated such on panel. Zops scan only means that at that moment in time, Thor used the Power Gem, but it does not show him staying on that level continuously. He had a spike that is all.
Originally posted by h1a8
The proof is in the showing. We know how much Thor was tapping based off individual things he did in comparison to the feats of his normal self. Thus he never exceeded 2x his normal self simply because there is no showing by him that went beyond his normal self (more than 2x).
But that's the thing. Where are you getting these figures??? Thor without the Power Gem was busting the Infinity Watch up, although they were just trying to subdue him, and not kill him. Still, what level was he on then? It was stated on panel that he was not in Warriors Madness, So we have to accept that Thor can operate on Power Team wrecker levels at base. Again, it never states what level Thor was on... not even once if I am not mistaken.
Originally posted by StoicThis isn't aboutu who is the better pg user the issue is whether or not Thor was amped. he clearly was. You're clearly wrong and tried changing your point. You're wrong and have been nuked. Accept it and move on.
With the Power gem it would not matter, because Warlock would be far more powerful than Thor if he were using it. He knows how to actively tap into it, whereas Thor was tapping into it on a subconscious level. This means that we have no idea when he was tapping into it during his fight with Thanos, or if he was tapping into it, because he simply did not possess the knowledge of how to use the Gem and unlock it's full potential.
Originally posted by h1a8Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
This is why no one takes you seriously.
Originally posted by quanchi112
This isn't aboutu who is the better pg user the issue is whether or not Thor was amped. he clearly was. You're clearly wrong and tried changing your point. You're wrong and have been nuked. Accept it and move on. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
The question is amped to what degree. it was obviously less than Odin possessed in strength, as he was easily able to rip out of the force block that Thor was unable to. Tell you what, why don't we make a thread pitting Thanos vs Adam Warlock (With Power Gem), and see how many people vote for Thanos. I know that you will vote for Thanos because that's your thing. Which is the reason why people have to simply stop replying to you when it concerns anything about Thanos. I have said in the past that Thanos would beat Thor, but it wouldn't look anywhere near the beating that Thanos delivered to the Silver Surfer.
This has nothing to do with me having a personal stake on the subject, just about the truth. Your truth is that without context Thanos can defeat a Power Gem user, without explaining that the Power Gem user was inept at using the Gem. It's an underhanded way of debating.
Vince_Slice understands this, as he admitted to never suggesting that Thanos would be able to defeat a Power Gem wielder that was fully adept at using the Gem.
Originally posted by StoicYes, but we never know to know degree we do know amped bigtime to easily defeat Thor, the watch, and the Surfer but not as powerful as Odin at the time.
The question is amped to what degree. it was obviously less than Odin possessed in strength, as he was easily able to rip out of the force block that Thor was unable to. Tell you what, why don't we make a thread pitting Thanos vs Adam Warlock (With Power Gem), and see how many people vote for Thanos. I know that you will vote for Thanos because that's your thing. Which is the reason why people have to simply stop replying to you when it concerns anything about Thanos. I have said in the past that Thanos would beat Thor, but it wouldn't look anywhere near the beating that Thanos delivered to the Silver Surfer.This has nothing to do with me having a personal stake on the subject, just about the truth. Your truth is that without context Thanos can defeat a Power Gem user, without explaining that the Power Gem user was inept at using the Gem. It's an underhanded way of debating.
Vince_Slice understands this, as he admitted to never suggesting that Thanos would be able to defeat a Power Gem wielder that was fully adept at using the Gem.
You want to go off topic again in your quest to come at Thanos. Let go of the hate. Thanos wins this thread and easily.
Originally posted by Nihilist
Stoic anh H1a8 continue to show they are stupid facepalm
Yo Nihilist, you don't want me to start up on you dog. We both know this. I can almost guarantee that you probably don't possess one college credit, you misspell shit all of the time, so you being pedantic about anything is absolutely incredible. It's always the dumb motherf@&😉ers that find a way to call someone stupid. Look into the mirror, realize that you are not perfect, and keep it moving.
Originally posted by StoicWhats wrong with misspelling things? Maybe he has a learning disability 😬
Yo Nihilist, you don't want me to start up on you dog. We both know this. I can almost guarantee that you probably don't possess one college credit, you misspell shit all of the time, so you being pedantic about anything is absolutely incredible. It's always the dumb motherf@&😉ers that find a way to call someone stupid. Look into the mirror, realize that you are not perfect, and keep it moving.
Originally posted by StoicLol any time u wanna bring it, you come and try it fool we both know youre a grade A coward who calls himself the superior debater yet is so sacred too prove it.
Yo Nihilist, you don't want me to start up on you dog. We both know this. I can almost guarantee that you probably don't possess one college credit, you misspell shit all of the time, so you being pedantic about anything is absolutely incredible. It's always the dumb motherf@&😉ers that find a way to call someone stupid. Look into the mirror, realize that you are not perfect, and keep it moving.
The simple facts are your bias and a liar when it comes to characters you dont like and lowball the shit out of them, id put you on par with h1a8.
OMGZ a spelling mistake on a comic book forum, big deal.
Originally posted by Stoic
But that's the thing. Where are you getting these figures??? Thor without the Power Gem was busting the Infinity Watch up, although they were just trying to subdue him, and not kill him. Still, what level was he on then? It was stated on panel that he was not in Warriors Madness, So we have to accept that Thor can operate on Power Team wrecker levels at base. Again, it never states what level Thor was on... not even once if I am not mistaken.
You don't get it. You must get specific and not general when determining strength. Normal Thor could bust the Infinity watch up if they fought the same way. It is not the outcome that determines but the how.
Lastly, I used an inequality. That means the source of numbers I came up with are irrelevant as long as the statement is true. For example, if Superman lifts an ordinary car then I can say that Superman didn't lift more than 1.8436 billion tons. Who cares where the 1.8436 came from as long as my statement is true. Thor never showed being more than 2x stronger than his normal self. This is a fact. It doesn't matter where the 2x number came from.
Originally posted by Nihilist
Stoic anh H1a8 continue to show they are stupid facepalm
You and Quans hidden agenda is to argue PG Thor because in reality it would make Thanos look good. Thus it is a conflict of interest that you and Quan participate in the discussion of PG Thor.
Originally posted by Stoic
You're putting words down that I never wrote. My whole stance was, and is that we did not know how much Thor was tapping into the Power Gem. It was never stated on panel that he was, it was only stated that he was subconsciously tapping into it.
Subconsciously tapping into the power gem is still tapping into the power gem, hence Thor was amped when he had it.
Drax subconsciously tapped into the Power Gem, and look how easily he was defeated by Thor, yet alone someone who is more powerful than Thor at base levels (Thanos).
All of that stuff that you just typed was for nothing, because it still does not overturn the fact that on panel Thor was not actively tapping into the Power Gem. Thor did not know how to actively tap into the Power Gem.
So unless the writer messed up on the true power that can be taken from the Power Gem, people need to stop claiming that Thanos has the power to take on a Power Gem wielder, who actually knows how to use the Power gem adeptly and not one inept at its usage. If you don't get what i am saying, and have been saying all along, that's on you bud.
The writer didn't mess up, it's just you can't comprehend the comic. When you activate the PG it's not an all-or-none effect. You can access the gem's power in varying degrees (e.g., anywhere from 1% to 100%). Get it? Thor was using the gem unconsciously and the power he was tapping into kept growing the longer he had it.
Can you tell me what percentage Thor was using the Power Gem on? No you can not, because it never stated such on panel. Zops scan only means that at that moment in time, Thor used the Power Gem, but it does not show him staying on that level continuously. He had a spike that is all.
Thor with the PG was amped enough to stomp the Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock, Doctor Strange, Drax the Destroyer, Moon Dragon, Gamora, Maxam, Pip, all at once. That to me shows me he was significantly stronger with the gem. If you think regular Thor without the PG can accomplish that than I shouldn't waste my time even replying to you.
1. Because he was only tapping the Gem on a subconscious level means that he was not consistently operating on the same levels, he could have been higher, or lower, or not tapping the Gem at all during certain periods.
2. Drax still tapped the Gem on the subconscious level. You really have no proof to say whether Thor could command the Gem in his time of rage, better than Drax could, because Thor simply did not have the proper training in its use, or have the Gem long enough to be considered adept at it's usage.
3. Thor tapped into the Gem in spurts, not contiguously. Don't make things up that were not expressly written. What happens if Thor was only tapping 1% of the Gem? he couldn't have been amplified that high, as he could not break free of the Force block that Odin easily ripped out of. I realize how powerful Odin is, but not even he can physically operate at the level, of an adept Power Gem user.
4. It's not a stupid question, you simply can not answer it. You don't know nor will you ever know what percentage of the Gem that Thor tapped. All you or anyone can really go on, is that Thor was unable to burst free of Thanos' force block.
5. The only thing that I am arguing for the second or third time, is that there are people who would try to make others believe that Thanos could take a Power gem wielder that was adept at its use. This was my point from the beginning. I don't really care whether or not you or anyone else agrees with me, but it certainly doesn't make me wrong. Thor may have been amplified, but he was not nearly powerful enough when he was trapped in the force block. This alone should tell you and anyone else what level of power Thor was tossing around during his battle with Thanos.
Originally posted by h1a8The showing made Thanos look not only good but great since an entire team which consisted of Strange, Warlock, Surfer, and a team failed yet he easily defeated him after he took him on for pure sport.
You don't get it. You must get specific and not general when determining strength. Normal Thor could bust the Infinity watch up if they fought the same way. It is not the outcome that determines but the how.Lastly, I used an inequality. That means the source of numbers I came up with are irrelevant as long as the statement is true. For example, if Superman lifts an ordinary car then I can say that Superman didn't lift more than 1.8436 billion tons. Who cares where the 1.8436 came from as long as my statement is true. Thor never showed being more than 2x stronger than his normal self. This is a fact. It doesn't matter where the 2x number came from.
You and Quans hidden agenda is to argue PG Thor because in reality it would make Thanos look good. Thus it is a conflict of interest that you and Quan participate in the discussion of PG Thor.
Hey I'm not trying to take anything away from Thanos, he was hard core in that book, but he would never take an adept Power Gem user, nor would one be trapped in his force block. I challenge you to google 1% of infinity to see what you get. Ask this question; "What is 1 percent of infinity. There is no such thing is what you will find, as the question makes no sense.
My take on things is this, Thor may not have been tapping into the Power gem during the fight with Thanos, and what we saw was Thanos fighting just a regular pissed off thor, that was unwilling to hold back.
OR
What we saw was Thanos fighting Thor, and being hit with the entire force of the Power Gem, because as I just stated, there is no such thing as a percentage of infinity, it is either infinity or not infinity, you can't have it both ways. Hence if Thor was hitting him while tapping the Power Gem, it means that Thanos was tanking blows that would crush any Abstract under the LT, despite Thor's inability to break free of the force cube. Hello... So now you see why I am against the showing. It's not to shit on Thanos, but I just think that it was horrible writing, or that Thor was not tapping into the infinite might that the Gem would give him.
Originally posted by StoicComic book logic doesn't have to match real world logic. Thor was amped and was more than Strange, team, and the Surfer. Thanos still defeated him with his own tech.
Hey I'm not trying to take anything away from Thanos, he was hard core in that book, but he would never take an adept Power Gem user, nor would one be trapped in his force block. I challenge you to google 1% of infinity to see what you get. Ask this question; "What is 1 percent of infinity. There is no such thing is what you will find, as the question makes no sense.My take on things is this, Thor may not have been tapping into the Power gem during the fight with Thanos, and what we saw was Thanos fighting just a regular pissed off thor, that was unwilling to hold back.
OR
What we saw was Thanos fighting Thor, and being hit with the entire force of the Power Gem, because as I just stated, there is no such thing as a percentage of infinity, it is either infinity or not infinity, you can't have it both ways. Hence if Thor was hitting him while tapping the Power Gem, it means that Thanos was tanking blows that would crush any Abstract under the LT, despite Thor's inability to break free of the force cube. Hello... So now you see why I am against the showing. It's not to shit on Thanos, but I just think that it was horrible writing, or that Thor was not tapping into the infinite might that the Gem would give him.