Originally posted by Horrificus
Excellent Point.
The problem with that kind of thinking is that if we use titles and such instead of going by feats, Roma would stomp the Annihilators without giving proof of her prowess. Zom Strange did nothing to show that he could pour out the level of power that the Hulk did during HOTM. We are talking about the vessel that Zom was in and not Zom itself, there is a difference.
As for you comment in an earlier post, which Hero from Batman on up doesn't bend the laws of physics? Do you think that even a billion billion people could tow seven earth sized planets? I don't, actually I know that they wouldn't be able to.
The Hulk is a faucet for Gamma power. I saw the situation of him cracking the earth with a step, as one of energy leakage. Since, physically, a step could not transfer energy in that way and the fact that the panels were clearly showing Gamma popping up from cracks and fissures.
Now, if this was shown to be an actual "power" of his, that could be used in a fight, or had been, that would be a different story. It would stick him up there with the Heralds.
But, even in that story arc, he was not doing this. It just happened, uncontrollably, in that scene. Similar to Wonder Man leaking (Last Avengers Story?), Captain Atom leaking (Kingdom Come), the Weird (DC) leaking and eventually exploding in space to save Earth. And these are just a few of many characters that have had similar situations.
As had been said by many Hulk fans, he was begging to be stopped. This is because he had no control.
The fact is, for all the power that the Hulk channels, it is not reliable, doesn't keep him from getting harmed and doesn't give him any "highest-end" feats.
It can be controlled and it is channelled and controlled by both the Bruce aspect and the Hulk aspect. The problem arose in that situation because Bruce went OTT at the betrayal and his own feelings of misjudgement.
Since then he has managed to perfectly control the upper reaches of this power, using it to do everything from clear out whole city blocks of Mindless Ones to demolishing dimensional barriers and the dark dimension.
Even before that, he's used the gamma energy thing on a few occasions. Though not all as controlled.
It's not that he can't control the power, it's that if he's not in control of his own rage, then he loses control of the power. He has to maintain control over his emotions or else the outpouring of power would overwhelm everything.
Originally posted by Horrificusutter nonsense
The Hulk is a faucet for Gamma power. I saw the situation of him cracking the earth with a step, as one of energy leakage. Since, physically, a step could not transfer energy in that way and the fact that the panels were clearly showing Gamma popping up from cracks and fissures.Now, if this was shown to be an actual "power" of his, that could be used in a fight, or had been, that would be a different story. It would stick him up there with the Heralds.
But, even in that story arc, he was not doing this. It just happened, uncontrollably, in that scene. Similar to Wonder Man leaking (Last Avengers Story?), Captain Atom leaking (Kingdom Come), the Weird (DC) leaking and eventually exploding in space to save Earth. And these are just a few of many characters that have had similar situations.
As had been said by many Hulk fans, he was begging to be stopped. This is because he had no control.
The fact is, for all the power that the Hulk channels, it is not reliable, doesn't keep him from getting harmed and doesn't give him any "highest-end" feats.
Originally posted by janus77Well, for the most part, I kind of agree with what you are saying. But, that is because I think you are agreeing with what I am saying.
It can be controlled and it is channelled and controlled by both the Bruce aspect and the Hulk aspect. The problem arose in that situation because Bruce went OTT at the betrayal and his own feelings of misjudgement.Since then he has managed to perfectly control the upper reaches of this power, using it to do everything from clear out whole city blocks of Mindless Ones to demolishing dimensional barriers and the dark dimension.
Even before that, he's used the gamma energy thing on a few occasions. Though not all as controlled.
It's not that he can't control the power, it's that if he's not in control of his own rage, then he loses control of the power. He has to maintain control over his emotions or else the outpouring of power would overwhelm everything.
Maybe he has done stuff since then, that negates what I am saying. I can't say I know for sure, because I don't.
But, if we are talking about WWH, my argument stands.
Originally posted by psycho gundamComparing my arguments to unfounded fantasy, without having to actually negate my post, might work from time to time in here.
jimmy hoffa was transported into another dimension as part of the FBI's new witness protection program.Make a lengthy and compelling argument refuting that.
Originally posted by carver9As I said, maybe he DOES have control now. I couldn't argue against that honestly.
Hulk had/have complete control of his gamma energy or his strength. This shouldn't even be an argument anymore since he has shown this multiple of times.
But, my point is, that he didn't have control during WWH, which was the whole lynchpin of the "stop me before I break the world" thing.
He may have had potential power, enough to do a lot, but he wasn't really wielding it after it got to a certain level.
Horrificus, you're confusing temporary rage with an inability to control and also cause and effect. WWH was completely focused and controlled anger, all the way through the arc except, when he found out that Meik had betrayed him, had manipulated his anger and that he was in part culpable for all of Meik's doings, as he had been a bad example to Meik.
Once he began to feel himself descending into rage, he fought as hard as he could, to repress it, to prevent it from taking over and, with the help of the cathexis ray and his own will, he completely drained whatever gamma he'd stored up, drained himself emotionally and reverted to Banner.
It (the WBH mode) wasn't the cause of his lack of control, but the manifestation of his lack of mental equilibrium.
Thus, he can calmly hold together a planet that is twice the size of Earth and prevent it exploding apart without releasing energies all over the place and causing untold collateral damage.
He can and does, release gamma energies as a destructive effect of high end power output, as he did in HOTM and on a few other instances, and again it has no effect on his ability to control the power.
Originally posted by janus77What you say makes sense. I haven't dug into Hulk enough lately to give you a proper fight.
Horrificus, you're confusing temporary rage with an inability to control and also cause and effect. WWH was completely focused and controlled anger, all the way through the arc except, when he found out that Meik had betrayed him, had manipulated his anger and that he was in part culpable for all of Meik's doings, as he had been a bad example to Meik.Once he began to feel himself descending into rage, he fought as hard as he could, to repress it, to prevent it from taking over and, with the help of the cathexis ray and his own will, he completely drained whatever gamma he'd stored up, drained himself emotionally and reverted to Banner.
It (the WBH mode) wasn't the cause of his lack of control, but the manifestation of his lack of mental equilibrium.
Thus, he can calmly hold together a planet that is twice the size of Earth and prevent it exploding apart without releasing energies all over the place and causing untold collateral damage.
He can and does, release gamma energies as a destructive effect of high end power output, as he did in HOTM and on a few other instances, and again it has no effect on his ability to control the power.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankI agree that if Hulk is able to use the reality warping powers which allow him to do things that don't even make "comic-book-sense", along with his Gamma energy manipulation, he will win.
We all agree that King Hyperion gets merced, though, right?That's what counts.
Why not just call him "Hulkpossble Man"?
Originally posted by quanchi112sorry for the long time in responding. just saw this. tbh i was talking outta my ass. KH wouldnt be able to hurt WWh enough to win. I think I was just saying it cuz I like him better and I was just like pssh whatever. But anyways WWH will win. Thats my final word.
Why are you leaning towards Hyperion ?
Originally posted by DamborgsonThis is the kind of honesty I was hoping to find. It keeps me coming back. I feel like if I push hard enough people will realize the good I do for the universe with my debating skills.
sorry for the long time in responding. just saw this. tbh i was talking outta my ass. KH wouldnt be able to hurt WWh enough to win. I think I was just saying it cuz I like him better and I was just like pssh whatever. But anyways WWH will win. Thats my final word.
Always Believe.
Originally posted by Horrificus
I agree that if Hulk is able to use the reality warping powers which allow him to do things that don't even make "comic-book-sense", along with his Gamma energy manipulation, he will win.Why not just call him "Hulkpossble Man"?
Tbh, I think Hulk could just punch the shit out of him and be done with it.
King Hyperion is out of his depth here.