Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Sidious would rip Revan a new ******* with a lightsaber alone, the force too would lean heavily in his favor.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
As for this fight. Yoda takes this, he is the superior saber and force combatant. Yoda sent the most powerful lord of the Sith in history packing with a single Force Push.
Sidious is not untouchable or invincible. Not even close.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
When has the JK ever displayed that sort of offensive TK
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Debating that quote is meaningless considering this quote from the inventor of canon himself Leland Chee
"Inside the spacious interior of the Galactic Senate chambers, Yoda challenged the Emperor. The two entered into a spectacular duel -- a contest between the most powerful practitioners of the Force's light and dark sides. The Emperor proved too powerful to defeat. Though Yoda held his own for much of the duel, in the end, the Sith bested him. He realized that directly confronting the Sith would be doomed to failure. Defeated, Yoda slinked away into the shadows of the Senate chamber's cavernous depths, leaping into a waiting getaway speeder piloted by Bail Organa."“Yoda went after Palpatine in the empty Senate chamber, but could not defeat the most powerful Sith Lord in history.â€(The New Essential Chronology, page 84 )
Meaning Sidious as of ROTS was the most powerful Sith Lord in history.
Some Star Wars authors assume that Yoda is the strongest Jedi. Even stronger then Luke at his prime. Want to accept this?
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The quote is up for debate. But I can sense you dnt consider your opinion as fallible, only mine 😕
Apologies, it seemed like your argement was that you just didn't think Yoda was arrogant enough to consider himself the Avatar of Light.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Well being Master of the Jedi order is factual enough. But Calling himself "Supreme" Master is just adding arrogance to the table.And what about "The Avatar of Light" which is the main point I was making. You consider that a fact as well. Because if Yoda thinks of himself as such, that would automatically disqualify him as such imo.
The true Avatar of Light would be someone more humble like Mace or Obi-Wan if that is the case.
Erm, what? Since when was being humble the defining characteristic of being an 'Avatar of Light?' I wasn't even aware that was a real thing instead of just a fanciful phrase.
However, at that point Yoda essentially was the 'Avatar of Light' considering that all the other Jedi were dead (to his knowledge) and that between he and Obi-Wan he represented the greater part of the Lightside. He was stronger with the Force and the Lightside than Obi-Wan and was his superior in the Order.
Anyway, the 'Avatar of Light' is not the really, really important part of that passage. That would be were Yoda says he's the most powerful foe of darkness ever, which people see as being part of an omniscient narration and thus making Yoda canonally >>>> Most everyone in the mythos. Though even then since the Knight can be Darkside that might not apply to him anyway.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
Yes but when we are told by canon sources that he is the most powerful sith lord in history, and we have seen how well Yoda stood up to him in an all out fight, sabers and force fight, then that kind of brings more validity to the statement that Yoda was also the most powerful in the history of the jedi up until that point.
It doesn't make Yoda automatically superior to the Jedi Knight. Despite how much I've argued against him, Vitiate is one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history, and the Jedi Knight defeated him inside a Darkside Nexus on a Darkside-rich planet after giving him time to prepare for him, while weakened.
Although he did have his trusty Astromech with him. ^_^
Also I've never actually said that I believe the Jedi Knight will win, simply that I object to that quote of Yoda's.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
A fair point. However all the facts on the plate point to Yoda being more powerful:
* Fighting on par with the most powerful Sith Lord in history.
* Being Grand Master of the Jedi Order during its golden age.
* The ROTS novel quote.
* Achieved Mastery of all VII forms of lightsaber combat sans Vaapad variant of Juyo.
* Sending Darth Sidious himself packing with a Force Push.
* Even the arrogant Darth Sidious, knew that it was a very good possibility that he could have lost to Yoda, and opted to retreat.
* Called by source material to be the most devastating foe darkness has ever known.
The Jedi Knight:
* Champion of the Light of his era
* Defeated Vitiate, but granted Meetra and Revan could have done the same.
* Able to resist the Emperor's Mental dominations.
* Capable of blocking the Emperor's lightning with his lightsaber.
I've never said that I believe the Knight to be better than Yoda. I just took umbridge to that quote being used as proof of Yoda's innate superiority.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Screen play says Yoda blocks some of his lightning before. And he doesn't lose that match up. Or did you miss Sidious groaning in agony? They were both blown back.
I was just pointing out that Yoda wasn't capable of 'handling' Sidious' Force Lightning as you said he was.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Arguably is operative here. From what I've seen Vitiate's charged lightning is what could even be argued to be more powerful than Sidious'. However that is never seen being used against the JK character. His non-charged lightning was being batted aside, dodged and outright redirected right back onto the Emperor by Revan.
Also Sidious' lightning almost made Mace Windu eat his own saber, killed Darth Plagueis, and was capable of incinerating legions of Stormtroopers. When has Vitiate's non-charged ever demonstrated the same?
Even better yet was even someone like Galen Marek was canonically "no match for the power of Darth Sidious". And yet his lightning could topple AT-ATs, and vaporize storm troopers.
The Emperor issues sustained lightning against the Knight in the final battle, which should have the same effect as a 'charged' bolt of lightning. Also theres nothing indicating that Vitiate did not charge his lightning in that duel when the Knight blocked it.
Sidious killed a legion of Stormtroopers, he did not 'incinerate' them. Vitiate casually used his lightning to overpower a good 4 Jedi Masters at the same time. And his lightning was described as being 'infinately more powerful' than Nyriss (or whoever that was), whose lightning was capable of actually incinerating a being.
Marek didn't vaporise stormtroopers with lightning to my knowledge.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No I am not, but Continuity Database Administrator is charged with keeping the SW universe in order.
In Lightsabers and the force Yoda seems to be superior.
The Knights only advantage being his physical strength (arguable)
Which I suppose translates to him having the authority to issue binding statements about power-levels in off-hand conversation?
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
ROTS Sidious? No.
ROTS Sidious yes.
Mace knocked out the same Sith Lord with a kick. Get the memo?Sidious is not untouchable or invincible. Not even close.
Because we play as JK. We don't know JK's true abilities but he or she is certainly a Champion of Light.
All of these sources are old. TOR did not existed then.Some Star Wars authors assume that Yoda is the strongest Jedi. Even stronger then Luke at his prime. Want to accept this?
Old? Yes.
Inaccurate: Not until proven otherwise. Why is it that you TOR fanboys insist on galavanting around claiming how amazing the Sith Emperor and Revan and the JK are without any real feats to back it up. Your proof is pretty atrocious.
I am not quoting those authors now am I? No. So it's irrelevant.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
ROTS Sidious yes.
Only chance for Sidious is in a lightsaber duel. In the Force, no guarantee. What will he do? Unleash his Force Lightning on Revan? Revan will redirect Sidious' lightning back at him to make a statement. And don't give me Yoda argument in this case. Revan has demonstrated greater proficiency in tackling Force Lightning assaults. Revan has handled freaking FLS level assaults.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Neither is Vitiate.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
That's nice.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Old? Yes.
Inaccurate: Not until proven otherwise.
Why do you think that their is no OFFICIAL LIST of the strongest Jedi and Sith on the official Star Wars website? Because of different opinion of people. Some may not agree with opinion of even George Lucas. Also, new sources tend to remake the image of the characters. Get the memo?
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Why is it that you TOR fanboys insist on galavanting around claiming how amazing the Sith Emperor and Revan and the JK are without any real feats to back it up. Your proof is pretty atrocious.
I am not quoting those authors now am I? No. So it's irrelevant.
Originally posted by NephthysIt doesn't make Yoda automatically superior to the Jedi Knight. Despite how much I've argued against him, Vitiate is one of the most powerful Sith Lords in history, and the Jedi Knight defeated him inside a Darkside Nexus on a Darkside-rich planet after giving him time to prepare for him, while weakened.
Also I've never actually said that I believe the Jedi Knight will win, simply that I object to that quote of Yoda's.
I've never said that I believe the Knight to be better than Yoda. I just took umbridge to that quote being used as proof of Yoda's innate superiority.
I was just pointing out that Yoda wasn't capable of 'handling' Sidious' Force Lightning as you said he was.
The Emperor issues sustained lightning against the Knight in the final battle, which should have the same effect as a 'charged' bolt of lightning. Also theres nothing indicating that Vitiate did not charge his lightning in that duel when the Knight blocked it.
Sidious killed a legion of Stormtroopers, he did not 'incinerate' them. Vitiate casually used his lightning to overpower a good 4 Jedi Masters at the same time. And his lightning was described as being 'infinately more powerful' than Nyriss (or whoever that was), whose lightning was capable of actually incinerating a being.
Marek didn't vaporise stormtroopers with lightning to my knowledge.
Which I suppose translates to him having the authority to issue binding statements about power-levels in off-hand conversation?
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
The loss of the First Son surely weakened him as well. And the giving him time to prepare is only in the LS ending.
Its unsure whether the Barsen'thor killed the First Son before the Knight killed the Emperor. In fact, the general consensus seems to be that the Knights ending is the furthest along chronologically. Fair enough about the LS ending. But the Knight still defeated the Emperor in an extremely potent darkside nexus after fighting through his temple, so he was still at a disadvantage in the fight.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
I see no reason why, especially considering Yoda in verse would have knowledge of all other Champions of the light up to that point.
But he hasn't watched them personally fight or actually gauged his power against theirs. He's in no position to judge his strength reletive to the Jedi Knights at all. Midichlorian tests weren't invented until 1000 bby to our knowledge.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
What is your position then?
I think the Jedi Knight is probably a good match for Yoda. While he's obviously no match in offensive Force use, Yoda rarely uses that anyway, and has expressly stated he opposes using the Force to attack in ESB. I think that despite not being as well documented, his defeat of the Emperor was an extremely impressive feat and he shouldn't be written off.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Uhh he certainly was capable of handling it, it was redirecting it that posed more of a challenge.
I didn't mean literally handling it.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Wrong
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bq5X3F3g69c
Look at 10:03
Sure his lightning uncharged could defeat the likes of 2 Jedi Knights, but the only Master there was Tol Braga, and of course the JK character was on the level of a Jedi Master failed when he used the Charged lightning, the same charged lightning that brought blistered to Revan's hands and melted his mask.
This lightning generated instantly doesn't compare.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1ktnswRKi8&feature=related
Illogical. Just because it wasn't an enormous lightning storm doesn't mean the lightning in that second video was weak as opposed to highly concentrated. The two scenes are identical, the Emperor stands up, mouths off and shoots lightning. Unless the Emperor purposefully used a weaker attack than he did in the first video then I see no reason to think that the lightning he used on the Knight was any less powerful than what he used on the Knight, especially since the Knight has been prophetised to defeat him.
Also nice catch on the actual number of Masters. I havn't got that far in my Knight story and I've avoided spoilers other than the ones used in debates.
But Its still an impressive feat nontheless. Even legendary Force Users like Darth Bane struggled or couldn't overpower multiple Force users at once, and Bane wasn't fightning any Masters.
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
Considering what Marek's lightning does on a regular basis, and how Sidious' is on another level I'd still put Sidious on another level.
A>B>C?
Originally posted by Mizukage Yoda
No
I agree.