King Thor and Bor vs Depowered Tyrant...

Originally posted by zopzop
The Surfer's Power Cosmic is derived from BSE? Gladiator's psionic based powers are derived from BSE? Bill's Uru hammer is composed of solidified BSE? No right?

Galactus' Power Cosmic is synthesized BSE. The Gods are the direct product of the embodiment of Earth's biosphere.

See the difference?

Or, for that matter, Beta Ray Bill's Odinforce from King Thor's Odinforce and Bor's... Bor-force. I don't see a distinction worth making.

DP Tyrant ate synthesized BSE attacks. If there are other planet-eaters who synthesize energy from spheres like Cannibal Planet, I'd assume he could absorb their energy attacks as well. Beyond that, most forms of life directly spring from the planets they inhabit, including all of the characters so far mentioned -- Skyfathers to lesser beings, products of the Demiurge or not. And making that planet-connection is too tenuous for me. Particularly when it doesn't bear out on-panel and the distinctions necessary to reconcile on-panel proof are flimsy.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I don't understand how you can so concretely distinguish Surfer's Power Cosmic and Galactus' Power Cosmic.

Or, for that matter, Beta Ray Bill's Odinforce from King Thor's Odinforce and Bor's... Bor-force. I don't see a distinction worth making.

DP Tyrant ate synthesized BSE attacks. If there are other planet-eaters who synthesize energy from spheres like Cannibal Planet, I'd assume he could absorb their energy attacks as well. Beyond that, most forms of life directly spring from the planets they inhabit, including all of the characters so far mentioned -- Skyfathers to lesser beings, products of the Demiurge or not. And making that planet-connection is too tenuous for me. Particularly when it doesn't bear out on-panel and the distinctions necessary to reconcile on-panel proof are flimsy.

The difference is, the Surfer's Power Cosmic and power levels don't rely on him consuming a planet rich in biospheric energy. Galactus' does. He converts that BSE into the Power Cosmic.

Bill didn't do anything with his hammer except throw it or smash it on Tyrant. What does Uru metal have to do with biospheric energy?

The Gods are a direct product of the Demiurge's (the embodiment of the biosphere) energies. Even the later generation of Gods are nothing more than the energies of the previous Elders scattered throughout the planet by Atum. This was confirmed in the Encyclopedia Mythologica (on panel too).

That's why I say there's a very good chance he eats them.

Originally posted by zopzop
The difference is, the Surfer's Power Cosmic and power levels don't rely on him consuming a planet rich in biospheric energy. Galactus' does. He converts that BSE into the Power Cosmic.

Bill didn't do anything with his hammer except throw it or smash it on Tyrant. What does Uru metal have to do with biospheric energy?

Stormbreaker is empowered by the Odinforce. As is King Thor. I agree that neither of them have sh1t to do with biospheric energy.

Originally posted by zopzop
The Gods are a direct product of the Demiurge's (the embodiment of the biosphere) energies. Even the later generation of Gods are nothing more than the energies of the previous Elders scattered throughout the planet by Atum. This was confirmed in the Encyclopedia Mythologica (on panel too).

Originally posted by zopzop
That's why I say there's a very good chance he eats them.

This theory is awful and disproven on-panel by simply looking at DP Tyrants' history and on-panel fights.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Neither King Thor, nor Bor's power levels rely on them consuming planets rich in biospheric energy either. You've inadvertently deconstructed your own theory. Impressve.

They are the result of the life energies of the previous gods created DIRECTLY by the embodiment of Earth's biosphere.

Stormbreaker is empowered by the Odinforce.

As is King Thor. I agree that neither of them have sh1t to do with biospheric energy. All of the aforementioned characters originate directly from a biosphere also with the exception of Galactus (ironically the only one who attacks DP Tyrant did absorb). The distinction you're trying to draw from gods can also be directed at the planet's inhabitants. Accordingly, it's a false distinction. You've already artlessly avoided accepting that Chaos King and Chaos War Hercules completely wreck DP Tyrant.

Not in the same way they aren't. The Gods are the result of the biospheric energy that DIRECTLY created the previous generation of Gods being reseeded back into the atmosphere. They didn't evolve from plant or animal life over eons. HUGE difference.

And Chaos King preceded the Demiurge as the darkness BEFORE this universe (let alone the Earth or it's biosphere which the Demiurge is the embodiment of) was created. So he's safely beyond Tyrant.

Likewise with CW Hercules. He had power that wasn't granted by the Demiurge thanks to Cho and his shenanigans.

No, there isn't. DP Tyrant can eat synthesized BSE. That's all he's ever done on-panel. He didn't eat Gladiator, Surfer, Beta Ray Bill, Thanos or his own weaponized power orbs or any of their attacks. That's because none of them were synthesized BSE and none of them were empowered by synthesized BSE. They had their own Strontian, Power Cosmic, Odinforce, etc. Neither King Thor and Bor, nor their attacks, are empowered by synthesized BSE. It's Odinforce (or Borforce), like Beta Ray Bill's power.

This theory is awful and disproven on-panel by simply looking at DP Tyrants' history and on-panel fights.

The Gods are recycled beings created DIRECTLY by the power of the Earth's biosphere. Galactus isn't. BRB isn't. Surfer isn't. Gladiator isn't. Galactus devours worlds rich in BSE and uses that to fuel his Power Cosmic. Surfer doesn't, Gladiator doesn't, BRB doesn't.

It's really not hard to understand.

Originally posted by zopzop
They are the result of the life energies of the previous gods created DIRECTLY by the embodiment of Earth's biosphere.

Originally posted by zopzop
And he didnt' do anything with it that entire arc except use it as a club. That's more a property of the Uru than any enchantment by Odin.

Not in the same way they aren't. The Gods are the result of the biospheric energy that DIRECTLY created the previous generation of Gods being reseeded back into the atmosphere. They didn't evolve from plant or animal life over eons. HUGE difference.

All plant and animal life result from the biospheric energies. You can't possibly argue that Gaea isn't responsible for nearly all life on Earth, Skyfather or otherwise. And DP Tyrant still has not eaten any gods' power in the first instance anyway. He only ate synthesized BSE. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Originally posted by zopzop
And Chaos King preceded the Demiurge as the darkness BEFORE this universe (let alone the Earth or it's biosphere which the Demiurge is the embodiment of) was created. So he's safely beyond Tyrant.

Likewise with CW Hercules. He had power that wasn't granted by the Demiurge thanks to Cho and his shenanigans.

The Gods are recycled beings created DIRECTLY by the power of the Earth's biosphere. Galactus isn't. BRB isn't. Surfer isn't. Gladiator isn't. Galactus devours worlds rich in BSE and uses that to fuel his Power Cosmic. Surfer doesn't, Gladiator doesn't, BRB doesn't.

It's really not hard to understand.

First of all, Cho amped Hercules by using various Skyfather artifacts in the prologue to Chaos War. Second, Gaea and Peel amped Hercules directly at the end of Chaos War #4. Having now learned that, let's see if you think DP Tyrant would eat CW Hercules.

Galactus was the one AND ONLY entity who proved to be susceptible to DP Tyrant's energy absorption powers. That's because he feeds drectly on biospheres and shoots synthesized BSE. None of the others characters do. Neither does King Thor nor Bor.

Its really not hard to understand.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Surfer is the result of the synthesized BSE energies of Galactus who feeds DIRECTLY on biospheres. BRB is the result of the Odinforce of Odin created DIRECTLY by the embodiment of Earth's biosphere. Once again, good job deconstructing your own flimsy rationale.

False. The Surfer's power has nothing to do with the biosphere of anything. Unlike Galactus, the Surfer doesn't need to feast on world's rich in biospheric energy to replenish his powers. This is the same for all of Galactus' heralds.

Regarding BRB, he didn't do ANYTHING with the hammer except use it as a club. No energy attacks or anything. He used it as a club. It's not composed of biospheric anything. It's made up of Uru metal.

Those beings and objects are NOT the direct result of the actual sentience of the biosphere using pieces of itself to create them.

And he didn't eat Stormbreaker's energies, i.e., the Odinforce. He didn't eat Beta Ray Bill himself, empowered by... the Odinforce. So the concept of DP Tyrant eating the Odinforce is conspicuously non-existent when confronted with another Odinforce-powered foe. Which is what King Thor is.

All plant and animal life result from the biospheric energies. You can't possibly argue that Gaea isn't responsible for nearly all life on Earth, Skyfather or otherwise. And DP Tyrant still has not eaten any gods' power in the first instance anyway. He only ate synthesized BSE. HUGE DIFFERENCE.

Thor's mother, like Thor's father and all other Gods with no mortal parents are nothing more than pieces of the Demiurge (sparks of his life force) given form by human worshipers. They have NOTHING in common with carbon life forms.

The Gods are "Divinity given substance by the Demiurge (the sentience of the biosphere) and form by the human mind".
EDIT :
This is repeated almost word for word in the Encyclopedia Mythologica :
http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx18/bagsikdangal/EncyclopediaMythologica-0004-1.jpg

Also the carbon based life forms that make up a world have nothing to do with the biospheric energies Galactus (and Tyrant) get from worlds.

Chaos King absorbed planets and their pantheons. That's how he grew in initial power beyond his diminished Amatsu-Mikaboshi form. Having now learned that, let's see if you think DP Tyrant would eat Chaos King.

First of all, Cho amped Hercules by using various Skyfather artifacts in the prologue to Chaos War. Second, Gaea and Peel amped Hercules directly at the end of Chaos War #4. Having now learned that, let's see if you think DP Tyrant would eat CW Hercules.

Galactus was the one AND ONLY entity who proved to be susceptible to DP Tyrant's energy absorption powers. That's because he feeds drectly on biospheres and shoots synthesized BSE. None of the others characters do. Neither does King Thor nor Bor.

Its really not hard to understand.

DP Tyrant could eat CK IF and only IF DP Tyrant's BSE absorption trumped CK's absorption abilities. Otherwise, no. Eternity said fighting CK would be like fighting himself. So if CK really is a peer to Eternity than Tyrant is obviously outclassed.

CK claimed to be the void/darkness before Creation, he obviously predates the Earth and hence the Demiurge.

CW Herc's amp is something I'll need to look into.

Originally posted by zopzop
False. The Surfer's power has nothing to do with the biosphere of anything. Unlike Galactus, the Surfer doesn't need to feast on world's rich in biospheric energy to replenish his powers. This is the same for all of Galactus' heralds.

Regarding BRB, he didn't do ANYTHING with the hammer except use it as a club. No energy attacks or anything. He used it as a club. It's not composed of biospheric anything. It's made up of Uru metal.

Those beings and objects are NOT the direct result of the actual sentience of the biosphere using pieces of itself to create them.

Stormbreaker is empowered by the Odinforce. So is BRB. Neither of them were eaten by DP Tyrant even though both were at his mercy and both were attacking him directly. There goes your theory.

Right. Neither are King Thor or Bor then. If you're trying to convince me that characters empowered by entities who either a) eat biospheres, e.g., Galactus, or b) are directly created by Demiurge/biospheric energies, i.e., Gaea... then you've failed to note that nether King Thor, nor Bor were directly created by the Demiurge or biospheric energies. King Thor is the son of Odin. Bor is the son of Tiwaz who preceded him. And they all are resurrected over and over again by the Ones Who Sit Above in Shadow over eons and eons.

Originally posted by zopzop
Thor's mother, like Thor's father and all other Gods with no mortal parents are nothing more than pieces of the Demiurge (sparks of his life force) given form by human worshipers. They have NOTHING in common with carbon life forms.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/51/lifeforce.jpg
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/513/lifeforce2.jpg

The Gods are "Divinity given substance by the Demiurge (the sentience of the biosphere) and form by the human mind".
EDIT :
This is repeated almost word for word in the Encyclopedia Mythologica :
http://i737.photobucket.com/albums/xx18/bagsikdangal/EncyclopediaMythologica-0004-1.jpg

Also the carbon based life forms that make up a world have nothing to do with the biospheric energies Galactus (and Tyrant) get from worlds.
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/819/silversurferv3106p08.jpg

Furthermore, your flimsy and transparent distinction that Surfer doesn't eat biospheric energies to sustain himself is shared by ALL the characters you're pretending would be eaten by DP Tyrant.

Originally posted by zopzop
DP Tyrant could eat CK IF and only IF DP Tyrant's BSE absorption trumped CK's absorption abilities. Otherwise, no. Eternity said fighting CK would be like fighting himself. So if CK really is a peer to Eternity than Tyrant is obviously outclassed.

CK claimed to be the void/darkness before Creation, he obviously predates the Earth and hence the Demiurge.

CW Herc's amp is something I'll need to look into.

Chaos King was empowered by planets and the pantheons of those planets. You clearly are now realizing your theory descends into absurdity when applied to other characters. But having learned that, does DP Tyrant eat Chaos King?

You don't need to look into it. I've explained EXACTLY what it is. Having learned that, does DP Tyrant eat Chaos War Hercules? Of course, your cowardly retreat from examples that serve to highlight how absurd your theory is only punctuates its inherent absurdity.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Unlike Galactus, King Thor and Bor don't need to feat on world's rich in biospheric energy to replenish their powers. This is the same for every character that DP Tyrant fought other than Galactus. Once again, good job trying to serve up a false distinction that actually disproves your theory since its a distinction shared by all characters.

Stormbreaker is empowered by the Odinforce. So is BRB. Neither of them were eaten by DP Tyrant even though both were at his mercy and both were attacking him directly. There goes your theory.

Right. Neither are King Thor or Bor then. If you're trying to convince me that characters empowered by entities who either a) eat biospheres, e.g., Galactus, or b) are directly created by Demiurge/biospheric energies, i.e., Gaea... then you've failed to note that nether King Thor, nor Bor were directly created by the Demiurge or biospheric energies. King Thor is the son of Odin. Bor is the son of Tiwaz who preceded him. And they all are resurrected over and over again by the Ones Who Sit Above in Shadow over eons and eons.

None of Tyrant's foes up till he faced Galactus get their power from the biosphere of worlds. Not the Surfer, BRB, Gladiator, etc.. BRB didnt' do jack with Stormbreaker except use it as a club, what does this have to do with BSE? The reason why Stormbreaker wasn't eaten along with the other items that he collected from the fallen heroes is because he was using them to power his ship.

Regarding the Gods, as shown on panel AND the handbook :
Demiurge (the biosphere of Earth) took PIECES OF ITS ESSENCE and created the Elder Gods. Gaea (a piece of the Demiurge) had a new type of God created in her by the Demiurge.

Atum devoured the Elder Gods and reseeded their energies (which were nothing more than pieces of the Demiurge) back into the atmosphere. These energies later became the Gods. This is SHOWN TO YOU ON PANEL. They are DIRECTLY the energies of the Demiurge shaped by mortal minds.

And how are Galactus' heralds any different? Because their power was directly imbued by Galactus, who himself is empowered by biospheric energies. If you're trying to convince me that the Gods are related to the Demiurge because their original ancestor was borne directly from a biosphere's energies, then you're completely contradicting yourself by acting like the Heralds are any different. You're also pretending that Beta Ray Bill is somehow different. But you haven't even given a reason why.

Furthermore, your flimsy and transparent distinction that Surfer doesn't eat biospheric energies to sustain himself is shared by ALL the characters you're pretending would be eaten by DP Tyrant.

The Heralds are different because they weren't a part of Galactus like the Gods are a LITERAL part of the Demiurge (aka biosphere). The Heralds were mortals that Galactus augmented. You can see this when they are stripped of their powers, as in the case of the Surfer, they return to their humanoid forms.

But it's zee biosphere energeez!!!!111 And Galactus has superior independent energy absorption abilities than DP Tyrant. So there goes your theory. Having learned that, does DP Tyrant eat Chaos King?

Chaos King was empowered by planets and the pantheons of those planets. You clearly are now realizing your theory descends into absurdity when applied to other characters. But having learned that, does DP Tyrant eat Chaos King?

You don't need to look into it. I've explained EXACTLY what it is. Having learned that, does DP Tyrant eat Chaos War Hercules? Of course, your cowardly retreat from examples that serve to highlight how absurd your theory is only punctuates its inherent absurdity.

Galactus does NOT have superior BSE absorption compared to Tyrant as shown on panel. Reed even mentioned during SW that though Galactus doesn't need his machines to feast on a world, they make the process far more efficient.

Chaos King was far more than a mere creation of the Demiurge, according to ON PANEL info, he predated Creation and was a peer to Eternity. WTF is anyone under a high abstract in power gonna do against that?

CK is "more than a God" and the "whole universe before the beginning of everything". Nothing to do with biospheres. He's just an extremely powerful abstract being that was devouring/absorbing the multiverse.

Now regarding Hercules. What issue was it mentioned in that he was merely empowered by Skyfather level artifacts? You keep talking but provide nothing. I don't even want scans, just an issue number. Google and Comicvine take care of the rest.

Gods win.

Originally posted by zopzop

None of Tyrant's foes up till he faced Galactus get their power from the biosphere of worlds. Not the Surfer, BRB, Gladiator, etc.. BRB didnt' do jack with Stormbreaker except use it as a club, what does this have to do with BSE? The reason why Stormbreaker wasn't eaten along with the other items that he collected from the fallen heroes is because he was using them to power his ship.

Regarding the Gods, as shown on panel AND the handbook :
Demiurge (the biosphere of Earth) took PIECES OF ITS ESSENCE and created the Elder Gods. Gaea (a piece of the Demiurge) had a new type of God created in her by the Demiurge.

Atum devoured the Elder Gods and reseeded their energies (which were nothing more than pieces of the Demiurge) back into the atmosphere. These energies later became the Gods. This is SHOWN TO YOU ON PANEL. They are DIRECTLY the energies of the Demiurge shaped by mortal minds.

The Heralds are different because they weren't a part of Galactus like the Gods are a LITERAL part of the Demiurge (aka biosphere). The Heralds were mortals that Galactus augmented. You can see this when they are stripped of their powers, as in the case of the Surfer, they return to their humanoid forms.

Galactus does NOT have superior BSE absorption compared to Tyrant as shown on panel. Reed even mentioned during SW that though Galactus doesn't need his machines to feast on a world, they make the process far more efficient.

Chaos King was far more than a mere creation of the Demiurge, according to ON PANEL info, he predated Creation and was a peer to Eternity. WTF is anyone under a high abstract in power gonna do against that?

CK is "more than a God" and the "whole universe before the beginning of everything". Nothing to do with biospheres. He's just an extremely powerful abstract being that was devouring/absorbing the multiverse.

Now regarding Hercules. What issue was it mentioned in that he was merely empowered by Skyfather level artifacts? You keep talking but provide nothing. I don't even want scans, just an issue number. Google and Comicvine take care of the rest. [/B]

Alot of the Gods origins have been revamped with the whole galactus seed events. Regarding Hercules Supergod powers it is all in the respect thread and it was clear as day i don't get how you can debate somethign you haven't even read about. And the notion that DP tryant can absorb the Gods power is slim but doesn't matter anyways since you need on-panel proof anyways. Heck he should of been able to abosrb Thanos by touching him since Thanos is much closer to a God then anything Tryant has fought.

Originally posted by DarkOdin
Alot of the Gods origins have been revamped with the whole galactus seed events. Regarding Hercules Supergod powers it is all in the respect thread and it was clear as day i don't get how you can debate somethign you haven't even read about. And the notion that DP tryant can absorb the Gods power is slim but doesn't matter anyways since you need on-panel proof anyways. Heck he should of been able to abosrb Thanos by touching him since Thanos is much closer to a God then anything Tryant has fought.

Wrong. Thanos is an augmented Eternal. The Gods are literal pieces of the Demiurge (the sentience of the Biosphere of the planet Earth) given form by the minds of Man. This is mentioned on panel and in the Encyclopedia Mythologica. I even provided the scans and links.

Hercules and Eternity say Miko is no mere God and pre dated the current Universe.

And regarding Hercules, there's nothing in his respect thread except a scan saying he was the "most powerful skyfather ever seen". My question is where did he get that power?

Originally posted by zopzop
Wrong. Thanos is an augmented Eternal. The Gods are literal pieces of the Demiurge (the sentience of the Biosphere of the planet Earth) given form by the minds of Man. This is mentioned on panel and in the Encyclopedia Mythologica. I even provided the scans and links.

Most importantly, this is how it bore out on-panel. One Skyfather of one Earth Pantheon already lent his power directly to a character and his weapon. Neither BRB nor Stormbreaker were eaten. Even when he was at his mercy, even when he was attacking DP Tyrant. This is all on-panel. If DP Tyrant can't even eat the Odinforce from BRB/Stormbreaker, then DP Tyrant isn't going to eat King Thor or Bor. Get over it and stop peddling this sh1t theory.

Originally posted by zopzop
Hercules and Eternity say Miko is no mere God and pre dated the current Universe.

Originally posted by zopzop
And regarding Hercules, there's nothing in his respect thread except a scan saying he was the "most powerful skyfather ever seen". My question is where did he get that power?

Heck, let's see if you think DP Tyrant would eat Set. Let's see how seriously you really try to take this theory of your's. I predict you simply running away again with a trail of red herrings left in your wake.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
No, they're not. Seriously. As there is a degree of separation between Galactus' power derived from BSE and his empowerment of Surfer (of which you completely rely on to distinguish Surfer), there are even more degrees of separation between the Demiurge, the Elder Gods, Atum, early humanity and the Pantheons of Earth.

Most importantly, this is how it bore out on-panel. One Skyfather of one Earth Pantheon already lent his power directly to a character and his weapon. Neither BRB nor Stormbreaker were eaten. Even when he was at his mercy, even when he was attacking DP Tyrant. This is all on-panel. If DP Tyrant can't even eat the Odinforce from BRB/Stormbreaker, then DP Tyrant isn't going to eat King Thor or Bor. Get over it and stop peddling this sh1t theory.

No there isn't. I even SHOWED you the scans both on panel and in the handbook that states the gods are "divinity GIVEN SUBSTENCE by the Demiurge and form by the mind of man." That's all the Gods are, pieces of the Demiurge which is nothing more than the sentience of the Earth's biosphere.

The reason that BRB and the others weren't eaten, if you bothered to read instead roid raging, was because he wanted them to POWER his WORLDSHIP (he's even siphoning Stormbreaker and the other power objects) :

Originally posted by zopzop

And Amatsu-Mikaboshi absorbed planets and their pantheons to amp himself up to Chaos King levels. You've tried to babyishly run away from this half a dozen times already with red herrings about Chaos King's origin. He amped himself by absorbing planets and their pantheons. Having now learned that, let's see if you think DP Tyrant would eat Chaos King.

Chaos King isn't a mere God. This was stated ON PANEL. Hercules said it and Eternity even said it. He PREDATES Creation. He's not a product of the Demiurge.

You're wriggling like an earthworm at this point. But pleading ignorance isn't a winning strategy. Cho combined Hebe's ambrosia, the golden apples of Idunn, the spells of the Book of Thoth, and the amrita cup of Dhanavantari in Prince of Power #4 and transferred the power to Hercules. Supergod Hercules was than further amped by Gaea and Pele in Chaos War #4. Of course, I already pointed this sh1t out half a dozen times and you keep fleeing. Having now learned that, let's see if you think DP Tyrant would eat CW Hercules.

You didn't point anything out. If that's what it took to create "Super God" Herc than the writer is pushing a heavy dose of garbage on the reader. I'm gonna try finding those scans. I have a feeling you are leaving something important out, just like with CK.

Heck, let's see if you think DP Tyrant would eat Set. Let's see how seriously you really try to take this theory of your's. I predict you simply running away again with a trail of red herrings left in your wake.

DP Tyrant would WRECK Set. Absolutely wreck him. Amp off his attacks and devour his form (which is nothing more than the essence of the Demiurge, aka the Earth's BIOSPHERE).

Originally posted by zopzop
No there isn't. I even SHOWED you the scans both on panel and in the handbook that states the gods are "divinity GIVEN SUBSTENCE by the Demiurge and form by the mind of man." That's all the Gods are, pieces of the Demiurge which is nothing more than the sentience of the Earth's biosphere.

So by your Galactus/Surfer reasoning, if the Elder Gods imbued a mortal with power but made him such that the character did not need to rely on BSE for sustenance, than that would make him inedible.

Of course, you'll just ignore how you completely deconstructed your rationale as a result of you trying to cover up the gaping holes in your flimsy logic.

Originally posted by zopzop
The reason that BRB and the others weren't eaten, if you bothered to read instead roid raging, was because he wanted them to POWER his WORLDSHIP (he's even siphoning Stormbreaker and the other power objects)

Originally posted by zopzop
Chaos King isn't a mere God. This was stated ON PANEL. Hercules said it and Eternity even said it. He PREDATES Creation. He's not a product of the Demiurge.

Originally posted by zopzop
You didn't point anything out. If that's what it took to create "Super God" Herc than the writer is pushing a heavy dose of garbage on the reader. I'm gonna try finding those scans. I have a feeling you are leaving something important out, just like with CK.

Originally posted by zopzop
DP Tyrant would WRECK Set. Absolutely wreck him. Amp off his attacks and devour his form (which is nothing more than the essence of the Demiurge, aka the Earth's BIOSPHERE).

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t562181.html

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're just talking past me at this point and not even addressing my rebuttals. The degree of separation between Galactus and Surfer is that Galactus Power Cosmic, sustained by BSE only imbued the mortal, Norrin Radd, with power but made him such that Surfer did not need to rely on BSE for sustenance. To you, this suffices to make Surfer inedible.

So by your Galactus/Surfer reasoning, if the Elder Gods imbued a mortal with power but made him such that the character did not need to rely on BSE for sustenance, than that would make him inedible.

Of course, you'll just ignore how you completely deconstructed your rationale as a result of you trying to cover up the gaping holes in your flimsy logic.

What flimsy logic? The Gods aren't mortal beings augmented by Demiurge (the sentience of the Earth's BIOSPHERE), they are LITERAL pieces of the biosphere given form by mortal minds. I PROVIDED the scans, both on panel and the handbook. What's even better is that both the sources stated this information WORD FOR WORD.

And then you have to consider Tyrant DID NOT WANT to devour them or their energy for himself. He wanted them as FUEL FOR HIS WORLDSHIP/minions. This is also STATED ON PANEL.

And he didn't eat BRB or Stormbreaker when BRB attacked him despite your assertion that DP Tyrant can eat the Odinforce. The story never even once intimated that DP Tyrant could hav simply eaten him or that BRB/Stormbreaker was suffused with power that made siphoning machines unnecessary (unlike the others). What you don't understand is the bottom-line here: DP Tyrant has no on-panel feats of eating Skyfather energies. And he lacks these feats even when he had the opportunity and cause to eat those Skyfather energies.

a) The hammer isn't made of biospheric energy or in anyway related to the bioshpere. It's composed of Uru metal. Why would he eat that?
b) He didn't do anything with that hammer except use it as a bludgeoning weapon (ie he never blasted Tyrant with Stormbreaker's energy attacks)
c) Tyrant stated ON PANEL why he took them prisoner and why he kept them alive, not to eat them BUT TO POWER HIS WORLDSHIP.

You're just talking past me at this point and not even addressing my rebuttals. Galactus isn't a mere God either, but he powers himself with BSE from planets, making his energies susceptible to DP Tyrant's appetite. Amatsu-Mikaboshi also absorbed planets AND their pantheons, which would make his energies susceptible to DP Tyrant's appetite as well according to your theory. But once again, you realize how absurd your theory is to have DP Tyrant eating Chaos King so you wiggle around like a worm and deflect with red herrings. Your behavior is completely transparent.

Dude, the whole point of my argument is ANYTHING created by the pieces of the Demiurge, you know the SENTIENCE OF EARTH'S BIOSPHERE, has a damn good chance to be eaten by Tyrant. Chaos King PREDATES Creation and has NOTHING to do with the biosphere of anything. He's an abstract level being as admitted by Eternity himself. He's beyond Demiurge or Tyrant.

You're going to pretend to look for the scans so that you can continue to plead from ignorance. The simple fact of the matter is, you could assume what I am telling you is true for the sake of argument and offer your position. But you won't. Because once again, you realize how absurd your theory is to have DP Tyrant eating CW Hercules so you wiggle around like a worm and deflect with red herrings. Your behavior is completely transparent.

You bet your @$$ I'm going to be looking for scans. You have a way of leaving out important information. For example, with the Chaos King. He wasn't merely a God (and hence NOT created directly from Demiurge's being as all other Earth based Gods are) as stated by Hercules and confirmed by Eternity.

And that behavior of your's is completely eradicated by you're descending into absurdity. I can't believe you would argue that DP Tyrant eats Set. Just awful. Let's see how far you go with this sh1t:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f77/t562181.html

Set would get crushed by Tyrant even worse than Galactus was. At least Galactus' VERY SUBSTANCE isn't biospheric energies given form, like Set's.

Originally posted by zopzop
What flimsy logic? The Gods aren't mortal beings augmented by Demiurge (the sentience of the Earth's BIOSPHERE), they are LITERAL pieces of the biosphere given form by mortal minds. I PROVIDED the scans, both on panel and the handbook. What's even better is that both the sources stated this information WORD FOR WORD.

Originally posted by zopzop
And then you have to consider Tyrant DID NOT WANT to devour them or their energy for himself. He wanted them as FUEL FOR HIS WORLDSHIP/minions. This is also STATED ON PANEL.

a) The hammer isn't made of biospheric energy or in anyway related to the bioshpere. It's composed of Uru metal. Why would he eat that?
b) He didn't do anything with that hammer except use it as a bludgeoning weapon (ie he never blasted Tyrant with Stormbreaker's energy attacks)
c) Tyrant stated ON PANEL why he took them prisoner and why he kept them alive, not to eat them BUT TO POWER HIS WORLDSHIP.

Finally, you have to consider that when BRB/Strombreaker were attacking him and he didn't eat their Odinforce as easily as if it were BSE. He resorted to stealing the Odinforce with machines just like the others. Furthermore, there was NOTHING that suggested that BRB/Stormbreaker were lucky to have escaped being DP Tyrant's personal snack or were in any danger of ever being his personal snack because they were empowered by Odinforce. NOTHING.

Originally posted by zopzop
Dude, the whole point of my argument is ANYTHING created by the pieces of the Demiurge, you know the SENTIENCE OF EARTH'S BIOSPHERE, has a damn good chance to be eaten by Tyrant. Chaos King PREDATES Creation and has NOTHING to do with the biosphere of anything. He's an abstract level being as admitted by Eternity himself. He's beyond Demiurge or Tyrant.

That you continue to purposefully ignore the absurd consequences of your theory when it comes to Chaos King with flimsy deflections only highlights how pathetic it is. You try to sell it so hard and you cannot even stand to back it 100%. Your fleeing is duly noted. And I will continually point it out to your dismay.

Originally posted by zopzop
You bet your @$$ I'm going to be looking for scans. You have a way of leaving out important information. For example, with the Chaos King. He wasn't merely a God (and hence NOT created directly from Demiurge's being as all other Earth based Gods are) as stated by Hercules and confirmed by Eternity.

Set would get crushed by Tyrant even worse than Galactus was. At least Galactus' VERY SUBSTANCE isn't biospheric energies given form, like Set's.

The same pitiful distinction you keep making to differentiate Chaos King, i.e., his origin predates the universe and he isn't strictly BSE, is shared by Galactus completely as he predates the universe and he isn't strictly BSE. And the only trait that makes Galactus susceptible to DP Tyrant's absorption abilities, i.e., consuming planets and their BSE, is also shared by Chaos King completely, i.e., consuming planets and their BSE. Even moreso, because Chaos King didn't just consume planets and their BSE but also their pantheons which you keep arguing are equivalent to mere BSE.

Your prevarications are both witless and inept. You don't have a leg to stand on and you damn well know it. You're capable of having a constructive discussion but you revert to type when cornered. Ignorance and deflections are all you have to offer now and we've all seen it time and time again across threads. Suffice it to say, you're done. And it's obvious.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Trying to act like you can reduce the Skyfathers to being the functional equivalnt of simple BSE is completely foolish. Galactus eats BSE too, he doesn't go around snacking on Gods and nothing on-panel suggests that Gods are as snackable to him as planets or more snackable than stars. There are so many degrees of separation between the original Demiurge's energies and King Thor, that conflating the two is a ridiculously trite proposition. And it shows.

Why are you ignoring the scans? The Gods are nothing more pieces of the Demiurge given form my mortal minds! Thor's father is LITERALLY a piece of the Demiurge. Thor's mother is a piece of the Demiurge. And we all know who/what the Demiurge is right?

Galactus' BSE absorption abilities are crapola on his own that's why he uses his machines, as stated on panel "they make the energy absorption far more efficient".

It's powered by the Odinforce, which you keep arguing is the functional equivalent of simple BSE. Why are you insinuating it being contained in an object would make it immune to DP Tyrant's absorption powers?

Finally, you have to consider that when BRB/Strombreaker were attacking him and he didn't eat their Odinforce as easily as if it were BSE. He resorted to stealing the Odinforce with machines just like the others. Furthermore, there was NOTHING that suggested that BRB/Stormbreaker were lucky to have escaped being DP Tyrant's personal snack or were in any danger of ever being his personal snack because they were empowered by Odinforce. NOTHING.

Why would he eat it when IT WAS STATED ON PANEL and later RESTATED when he was conversing with Galactus, he wanted them to POWER HIS VESSEL. That's it. He had no intention of eating them. So your whole argument is meaningless.

It's a sh1tty argument. And you can keep trying to dodge that Amatsu-Mikaboshi, regardless of his true origins, feasted on and was directly empowered by planets and their pantheons. If DP Tyrant was all you make him out to be, than Amatsu-Mikaboshi feasting on planets' biospheric energy and the pantheons that are supposedly the functional equivalent of simple BSE would make him no different from Galactus, who himself has nothing to do with BSE, except that he feasts on it and it empowers him.

That you continue to purposefully ignore the absurd consequences of your theory when it comes to Chaos King with flimsy deflections only highlights how pathetic it is. You try to sell it so hard and you cannot even stand to back it 100%. Your fleeing is duly noted. And I will continually point it out to your dismay.

Who cares what CK feasted on. He's BEYOND Tyrant. Do you understand? He's beyond Demiurge since he predates the freaking planet that spawned Demiurge. He has nothing to do with Demiurge. Chaos King is an abstract, multiversal being. Also he was feasting on a whole lot more than mere planets and pantheons. Cho said he had devoured 98% of the MULTIVERSE. Tyrant doesn't have that kind of ability.

Your aspersions are pathetic. And poisoning the well isn't a winning strategy. You'll never "look for the scans." Because you well know that what I am saying is completely true. And it being true corners you and your retarded theory so completely that you have no choice but to plead ignorance. You won't even assume simply for the sake of argument.

The same pitiful distinction you keep making to differentiate Chaos King, i.e., his origin predates the universe and he isn't strictly BSE, is shared by Galactus completely as he predates the universe and he isn't strictly BSE. And the only trait that makes Galactus susceptible to DP Tyrant's absorption abilities, i.e., consuming planets and their BSE, is also shared by Chaos King completely, i.e., consuming planets and their BSE. Even moreso, because Chaos King didn't just consume planets and their BSE but also their pantheons which you keep arguing are equivalent to mere BSE.

Your prevarications are both witless and inept. You don't have a leg to stand on and you damn well know it. You're capable of having a constructive discussion but you revert to type when cornered. Ignorance and deflections are all you have to offer now and we've all seen it time and time again across threads. Suffice it to say, you're done. And it's obvious.

Dude, Galactus IS NOT COMPOSED OF BSE like the Gods are (as stated on panel) his POWER COSMIC is FUELED by BSE. He synthesized BSE INTO the Power Cosmic. He's not composed of BSE at all. The Gods, according to on panel evidence backed up by the handbook, ARE! Can you not see the difference?

And no, I dont' know what your saying is completely true. You tried to play off Chaos King as a mere god that ascended to an abstract. But according to on panel statements by Hercules and Eternity that wasn't true.

Originally posted by zopzop
Why are you ignoring the scans? The Gods are nothing more pieces of the Demiurge given form my mortal minds! Thor's father is LITERALLY a piece of the Demiurge. Thor's mother is a piece of the Demiurge. And we all know who/what the Demiurge is right?

Originally posted by zopzop
Galactus' BSE absorption abilities are crapola on his own that's why he uses his machines, as stated on panel "they make the energy absorption far more efficient".

Originally posted by zopzop
Why would he eat it when IT WAS STATED ON PANEL and later RESTATED when he was conversing with Galactus, he wanted them to POWER HIS VESSEL. That's it. He had no intention of eating them. So your whole argument is meaningless.

Originally posted by zopzop
Who cares what CK feasted on. He's BEYOND Tyrant. Do you understand? He's beyond Demiurge since he predates the freaking planet that spawned Demiurge. He has nothing to do with Demiurge. Chaos King is an abstract, multiversal being. Also he was feasting on a whole lot more than mere planets and pantheons. Cho said he had devoured 98% of the MULTIVERSE. Tyrant doesn't have that kind of ability.

Originally posted by zopzop
Dude, Galactus IS NOT COMPOSED OF BSE like the Gods are (as stated on panel) his POWER COSMIC is FUELED by BSE. He synthesized BSE INTO the Power Cosmic. He's not composed of BSE at all. The Gods, according to on panel evidence backed up by the handbook, ARE! Can you not see the difference?

Originally posted by zopzop
And no, I dont' know what your saying is completely true. You tried to play off Chaos King as a mere god that ascended to an abstract. But according to on panel statements by Hercules and Eternity that wasn't true.

In the meantime, stop lying about what I post. I never said Chaos King was a mere god. Your straw-man is transparent. You can b1tch and whine about how the pillars of your position are being deconstructed but stop lying about what I post. I bring up Chaos King because he is like Galactus. A being not composed of BSE who predates the universe, but whose power is derived completely from planets (and in CK's case, even the pantheons of those planets). Galactus is susceptible to DP Tyrant's energy absorption. But somehow Chaos King isn't. The only distinction you rely on isn't even a distinction. Because it's the same trait shared by Galactus.

This theory was sh1t from beginning to end. And it shows the more helplessly you revert to type by pleading from ignorance, spewing deflections, and lying with your straw-mans. And, of course, you still no evidence of DP Tyrant eating anything else directly other than synthesized BSE.

Tyrant

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Why are you ignoring the long eons and context behind the evolution of the being that would become King Thor? Are you forgetful that there are so many degrees of separation between the original Demiurge's energies and King Thor, that conflating the two is a ridiculously trite proposition? Demiurge ---> Elder Gods ---> Atum ---> human consciousness changing those energies ---> Tiwaz ---> Bor ---> Odin ---> Thor ---> The Ones Who Sit in Shadow reforming and resurrecting them ---> King Thor eventually. The Odinforce that empowers and represents the actual lifeforce of King Thor is not the same exact biospheric energy that the Demiurge spouted. The proof? If Odinforce = BSE = Odinforce, and all gods are created and empowered by BSE, than any god would wield Odinforce and be able to pick up Mjolnir. Not any god can (that's obvious). Zeus' power is different from Odin's. Which means the power they possess evolved in different ways and did not remain the same. The gods have evolved over eons becoming different things not only from the Demiurge but from each other. They sustain and draw power from different things, i.e., Set from saurons and Atum from the Sun. They aren't simply pieces of BSE.

Wrong. According to the scans, that's exactly what they are! Pieces of BSE given form by mortal minds. I don't understand why you continue to ignore the scans? It's not like this is a farfetched theory of mind. The narrator made it clear on panel and the handbook writer repeated those statements : WORD FOR WORD.

That has nothing to do with what I said. If the gods are nothing more than the functional equivalent of BSE, than Galactus can eat the biospheric energies of the gods as easily as he eats the biospheric energies from the planets, regardless of how poor you think his energy absorption abilities are. If he can eat planets directly, he can eat gods directly. In any event, Galactus using machines is not evidence that his energy absorption abilities are "sh1tty," anymore than DP Tyrant using his siphoning machines and usurping Galactus' own tech to drain him far more efficently proves that DP Tyrant's energy absorption abilities are "sh1tty."

This has everything to do with what you said. If according to on panel statements that Galactus doesn't need the machine to devour a planet they just make the ENERGY ABSORPTION FAR MORE EFFIECIENT, that would explain why he doesn't eat gods sans his machine. It wouldn't be an efficient form of attack or sustenance.

And Tyrant didn't need Galactus' machines to drain the BSE from Galactus' attacks.

Because he was being attacked by BRB/Stormbreaker. When that blazing Odinforce-powered Stormbreaker hit DP Tyrant, did he exclaim that it only empowered him further? Nope. Not at all. So not only did DP Tyrant not absorb the Odinforce from BRB/Stormbreaker, there's no evidence that BRB/Stormbreaker or their attacks were more edible than any of the other Herald-level beings he captured. So... you sill have absolutely no evidence that DP Tyrant can simply eat the Odinforce. Even when it was right there.

Again, as STATED ON PANEL, he didn't want to devour them or their energies, he wanted them ALIVE TO FUEL HIS WORLDSHIP. Why is this so hard to understand? All BRB did was HURL the hammer at him and it bounced off him harmlessly. That's all. That would be pitting BRB's strength and Uru metal vs Tyrant's hide.

We all care what CK feasted on. Because his rise to power was derived directly from planets and their pantheons. That's all he ever devoured on-panel. And you won't even admit that DP Tyrant would eat him. Your theory is so pathetic... even you won't fully back it.

What theory? It was stated ON PANEL by Hercules and Eternity that CK PREDATES creation. If he predates Creation, he predates Demiurge. If he predates Demiurge, how can he be a creation of the Demiurge? If he has NOTHING to do with the Demiurge, why are you using him in this discussion?

I never said Galactus is composed of BSE. You're so cornered, you're reduced to lying outright about what I post to avoid having to confront how pointed the rebuttals are. Pathetic. You're so pathetic. Galactus predates the universe and sustains and empowers himself with planets. Chao King predates the universe and sustains and empowers himself with plaets and pantheons (the fuctional equivalent of mere BSE according to your bs). Galactus being susceptible because of his diet should make Chaos King equally susceptible. Of course, your theory is so pathetic... even you won't fully back it.

CK predates creation, has nothing to do with the Demiurge, and was devouring EVERYTHING in the multiverse (Cho said he had 98% of it eaten). Galactus, predates the universe, is not composed of BSE BUT unlike CK, SYNTHESIZED BSE into the Power Cosmic. See the difference? Bringing CK up is just deflection on your part.

You'll never look for the scans. You're like every other poster who can only resort to the pitiful excuse.. "Well, I never read that story so it doesn't matter but I'll come back toyou when I do." Bullsh1t. You're going to plead from ignorance and continue to act like you being disinformed somehow negates the point I made. It doesn't. CW Hercules not only gained his original amp from god artifacts, he was amped directly be Gaea and Pele. You won't even assme it's true for the sake of argument and tell me, if it were true, whether DP Tyrant would eat CW Hercules.

In the meantime, stop lying about what I post. I never said Chaos King was a mere god. Your straw-man is transparent. You can b1tch and whine about how the pillars of your position are being deconstructed but stop lying about what I post. I bring up Chaos King because he is like Galactus. A being not composed of BSE who predates the universe, but whose power is derived completely from planets (and in CK's case, even the pantheons of those planets). Galactus is susceptible to DP Tyrant's energy absorption. But somehow Chaos King isn't. The only distinction you rely on isn't even a distinction. Because it's the same trait shared by Galactus.

This theory was sh1t from beginning to end. And it shows the more helplessly you revert to type by pleading from ignorance, spewing deflections, and lying with your straw-mans. And, of course, you still no evidence of DP Tyrant eating anything else directly other than synthesized BSE.

Actually, UNLIKE YOU, I'm looking for the scans that add to my position or this discussion. You just throw tantrums and deflect.

You keep saying that CK was devouring planets and pantheons but that wasn't the end of it, he was devouring EVERYTHING and had 98% of the multiverse before they stopped him. That 98% includes a lot more than mere planets with biospheres or pantheons. Chaos King's source of power isn't merely biospheric in nature. It transcends that.

Galactus, on the other hand, as STATED ON PANEL, synthesized BSE INTO the Power Cosmic. Tyrant, as STATED ON PANEL, can absorb BSE energy even if it's synthesized into other forms of energy.