King Thor and Bor vs Depowered Tyrant...

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Those two options seem mutually exclusive of each other. Old zopzop seems to have a point, not matter which way you wriggle on this... 😂

That site is editable. And guess what? Even if you can escape your arguments with St it doesn't change your arguments that Demiurge was retconned: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=547590&pagenumber=1

Old zopzop seems pretty spot on... you having trouble arguing with him? 😂

That site is linked to by Marvel.com

There is a dispute about whether the beings mentioned in the Secret Avengers arc are Set or related to Set. The Marvel Appendix site says no.

Marvel Tarot did indeed mention the Demiurge and the Gods.

I did a 180 because another poster TOLD me the pages where the Demiurge was mentioned in Tarot and Mystic Arcana that added to the fact that there is real dispute regarding the Secret Avengers arc as to who those demons/gods mentioned in the issue are changed my mind.

Originally posted by zopzop
That site is linked to by Marvel.com

There is a dispute about whether the beings mentioned in the Secret Avengers arc are Set or related to Set. The Marvel Appendix site says no.

Originally posted by zopzop
If "Abyss" isn't Set but some other evil who is the Father of Set, the Darkest Child, and their siblings then there HAS been a retconn since it was stated that the Demiurge created Set and the other Elder Gods.

If "Abyss" is just another name for Set, then he's the one mentioned as the Father of the Darkest Child and it's siblings and he predates this reality and this again retconns the Demiurge creation story of the Elder Gods.

There's been a retcon.

Originally posted by zopzop
Marvel Tarot did indeed mention the Demiurge and the Gods.

I did a 180 because another poster TOLD me the pages where the Demiurge was mentioned in Tarot and Mystic Arcana that added to the fact that there is real dispute regarding the Secret Avengers arc as to who those demons/gods mentioned in the issue are changed my mind.

Originally posted by zopzop
This has been retconned you know.

Gaea is not created by the Demiurge anymore according to Chaos War.

Originally posted by zopzop
Easy, originally the story was the Demiurge created the Elder Gods on Earth billions of years ago.

According to Chaos War this isn't the case anymore with Gaea.

Hence the retconn 😄

How much longer can this go on?! This is even funnier than when I stealthiliy did it to quanchi112 for an entire page!!! 😂

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Old zopzop's kinda got you there... websites are not as reliable as on-panel evidence within the actual comics. And this mutually exclusive proposition is from the comics themselves!

Old zopzop has a point... Chaos War (2010) postdates Mystic Arcana: The Marvel Tarot (2007) by three years! More recent evidence rules! 😂 Listen to this guy here: He's got a point! 😂

How much longer can this go on?! This is even funnier than when I stealthiliy did it to quanchi112 for an entire page!!! 😂

Let me get this straight, you are going to spam this page with old posts where I already admitted that I was wrong thanks to another poster pointing out where I missed the Demiurge references in Mystic Arcana and Tarot? What are you 12 years old?

And regarding the Gaea "retcon" where does that leave Chthon/Oshtur/Set and Atum/Demogorge? One panel in CW undoes 30+ years of continuity?

Originally posted by zopzop
Let me get this straight, you are going to spam this page with old posts where I already admitted that I was wrong thanks to another poster pointing out where I missed the Demiurge references in Mystic Arcana and Tarot? What are you 12 years old?

Originally posted by zopzop
This has been retconned you know.

Gaea is not created by the Demiurge anymore according to Chaos War.

Originally posted by zopzop
And regarding the Gaea "retcon" where does that leave Chthon/Oshtur/Set and Atum/Demogorge? One panel in CW undoes 30+ years of continuity?

Originally posted by zopzop
This has been retconned you know.

Gaea is not created by the Demiurge anymore according to Chaos War.

And Set is older than Galactus or the Celestials and preexisted as the great darkness, no mention of Demiurge in his creation either. This was from Secret Avengers 1-4.

Oshtur and Chthon haven't been updated yet. Demiurge hasn't been mentioned again

You argued for 3 pages on the same exact points that other people brought up against you! On the same exact pieces of evidence! And you know what? Your older self was right! Chaos War is the most recent thing published. And on-panel, the Demiurge wasn't responsible for birthing Gaea! Gaea existed in the void that was Chaos King before anything! So Gaea isn't just an anthromorphosized piece of biospheric energy! In fact, there is no mention of any amorphous biospheric entity named Demiurge in the most recent published examples of any of the Elder Gods! Your whole theory that King Thor and Bor are essentially pieces of the Demiurge was retconned! YOU KNEW THIS BECAUSE YOU POINTED IT OUT YOURSELF:

Originally posted by zopzop
Easy, originally the story was the Demiurge created the Elder Gods on Earth billions of years ago.

According to Chaos War this isn't the case anymore

Hence the retconn 😄

kinda

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Chaos War (2010) postdates Mystic Arcana: The Marvel Tarot (2007) by three years. What does it matter if you were wrong about an older handbook from 2007? You still have an actual comic book from 2010! Are you suggesting that an older secondary source trumps a more recent on-panel comic book??????? Should I resurrect all your arguments with Galan007 on Beyonder erasing Death? 😂 I've got the memory of an elephant, dude. Don't dig yourself a deeper hole.

Do you really think all the arguments your spouting off now, weren't being voiced by the people you argued with in this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=547590&pagenumber=1

You argued for 3 pages on the same exact points! On the same exact pieces of evidence! And you know what? Your older self was right! Chaos War is the most recent thing published and on-panel, the Demiurge wasn't responsible for birthing Gaea! Gaea existed in the void that was Chaos King! So Gaea isn't just a biospheric energy! In fact, there is no mention of any amorphous biospheric entity named Demiurge in the most recent published examples of any of the Elder Gods! Your whole theory that King Thor and Bor are essentially pieces of the Demiurge was retconned! YOU KNEW THIS BECAUSE YOU POINTED IT OUT YOURSELF:

No actually I was wrong. Wrong because I used the "evidence" of no Demiurge in Mystic Arcana to piggy back on ONE PANEL in CW as "proof" there was no Demiurge.

Another forumer pointed out my error regarding Demiurge and Arcana/Tarot and I had to rethink my position. So Demiurge was INDEED mentioned in Arcana/Tarot and the origins of the Gods confirmed.

So all that's left was one panel in CW "retconning" 30+ years of Marvel history regarding the Gods. WhiteWhiteKing was right.

Originally posted by zopzop
No actually I was wrong. Wrong because I used the "evidence" of no Demiurge in Mystic Arcana to piggy back on ONE PANEL in CW as "proof" there was no Demiurge.

Originally posted by zopzop
This has been retconned you know.

Gaea is not created by the Demiurge anymore according to Chaos War.

And Set is older than Galactus or the Celestials and preexisted as the great darkness, no mention of Demiurge in his creation either. This was from Secret Avengers 1-4.

Originally posted by zopzop
Another forumer pointed out my error regarding Demiurge and Arcana/Tarot and I had to rethink my position. So Demiurge was INDEED mentioned in Arcana/Tarot and the origins of the Gods confirmed.

So all that's left was one panel in CW "retconning" 30+ years of Marvel history regarding the Gods. WhiteWhiteKing was right.

Originally posted by zopzop
Demiurge hasn't been mentioned since the Serpent Crown Saga back in 1989.

It may not make sense, but that's what was on panel. Gaea, until retconned again, preceded all other Elder Gods with the exception of Set.

😱 Holy sh1t! This is phucking gold right here! PLEASE TELL ME YOU'RE DOING THIS.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
BUT WAIT. Are you trying to argue that an old 2007 handbook trumps the on-panel retcon from a 2010 comic book storyline?!?!?!

😱 Holy sh1t! This is phucking gold right here! PLEASE TELL ME YOU'RE DOING THIS.

No. What I'm saying is if the one panel retelling in CW undoes 30+ years of Marvel continuity. Because if it does, then Chthon, Set, Oshtur and Atum/Demogorge are missing origin stories.

Originally posted by zopzop
No. What I'm saying is if the one panel retelling in CW undoes 30+ years of Marvel continuity. Because if it does, then Chthon, Set, Oshtur and Atum/Demogorge are missing origin stories.

Originally posted by zopzop
Easy, originally the story was the Demiurge created the Elder Gods on Earth billions of years ago.

According to Chaos War this isn't the case anymore with Gaea.

According to Secret Avengers 1-4, Set preexisted before this current universe.

Hence the retconn 😄

Oshtur and Chthon haven't had their new origin stories yet.

It certainly would have been funny if you even insinuated in the slightest that a 2007 handbook entry somehow trumped the on-panel retcon from Chaos War. I almost thought you would do it too!!! 😂

Originally posted by zopzop
The Gods are born of the Earth's biosphere, there's an excellent chance Tyrant literally EATS them.

Regardless of where the gods originated, why isn't it possible for them to have become more powerful than their origins?

Just trying to understand your opinion.

And, does Agamotto fall into the category of those elder gods, demons, etc?

I'm not attacking you.

^ Yeah. Let's all back off for the moment and ponder this...

... and this is particularly directed at old zopzop who can't help but keep arguing with new zopzop. Yeah, old zopzop, I'm talkin to you. Seriously dude, give him a breather for pity's sake and stop countering all of his posts! Yeesh.

biscuits

I'm thinking that in a couple of years nobody would remember who Chaos King is, much less that he predates the current MU and Galan's universe. But then again, folks remember Scathan being > LT no matter how much nonsense that sounds so I may be wrong.

Originally posted by Horrificus
OK, I am new to this whole feud concerning the Gods of earth and Tyrant.

Regardless of where the gods originated, why isn't it possible for them to have become more powerful than their origins?

Just trying to understand your opinion.

And, does Agamotto fall into the category of those elder gods, demons, etc?

I'm not attacking you.

No Agamotto, according to Mystic Arcana and Marvel Tarot, is Oshtur's virgin born son. By virgin born it meant no one helped her conceive him. She did it on her own with no outside power involved.

Oshtur is an Elder God (like Chthon, Set, Gaea) according to Marvel Tarot/Mystic Arcana.

Hoggoth has nothing to do with either, origin wise, and he's a member of the race of "Old Ones" (according to Marvel Tarot and Mystic Arcana).

Likewise beings like Cytorrak, the Seraphim, Watoomb, etc.. have no connect to the Demiurge or the Elder Gods.

^ And, of course, neither does Gaea have a connection to a Demiurge that's retconned out of existence with Chaos War. And more than arguably, neither did Set with the information from Secret Avengers even if the Gaea retcon never happened.

Acceptance is the first step towards healing. 👆

And finding this acceptance shouldn't be too difficult for you considering you already accepted it on your own already once:

Originally posted by zopzop
This has been retconned you know.

Gaea is not created by the Demiurge anymore according to Chaos War.

And Set is older than Galactus or the Celestials and preexisted as the great darkness, no mention of Demiurge in his creation either. This was from Secret Avengers 1-4.

Oshtur and Chthon haven't been updated yet. Demiurge hasn't been mentioned again

He doesnt need to eat them... he simply waxes that ass

He's as gay as Thanos?

Originally posted by Silent Master
He's as gay as Thanos?

So Tyrant still wins? Cool

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So Tyrant still wins? Cool