God. You really were completely blind to how I was going to deconstruct your argument and reveal how stupid your theory is. Cat was out the bag. And you didn't even realize it. This theory that DP Tyrant eats all the Elder Gods and Skyfathers is horsesh1t because YOU ARGUED AGAINST THE DEMIURGE EVEN BEING IN CONTINUITY.
Originally posted by zopzop^ Yeah, that's your post in this thread AMONGST MANY OTHERS. Funny enough, I clearly remember you arguing the exact opposite in this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=547590&pagenumber=1 Hmm... let's take a look shall we? I mean... it's not like you were completely arguing the exact opposite, right? Yeah, you did:
If the Demiurge has been retconned, how was Atum aka the Demogorge created? Because he's resurfaced in the recent Thor issues. And it's common knowledge that Demogorge is Gaea's child with the Demiurge.
Originally posted by zopzop
There IS NO DEMIURGE MENTIONED at all. Not in the retelling by Hera, not in Secret Avengers, not even in the 5 issues spanning Mystic Arcana 1-4 and culminating in Marvel : Tarot. If there was EVER a place to mention the Demiurge it'd be there. Yet he's strangely missing.It seems Marvel is giving them each a unique origin story. The "Demiurge created them" hasn't been mentioned since 1989.
Originally posted by zopzop
The DEMIURGE hasn't been mentioned since 1989! Not in Chaos War and not in Secret Avengers and not even in the freaking most in depth account of the Elders and their background stories in Mystic Arcana 1-4 and Marvel Tarot!
Originally posted by zopzopHmph. Why the phucking 180 degree turn?
No my deluded friend. I merely used the old 1989 info to prove to you that even before any retcons and Mystic Arcana/Tarot, Atum was not considered an Elder God. Hence why he wouldn't be mentioned in Mystic Arcana/Tarot as an Elder.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
God. You really were completely blind to how I was going to deconstruct your argument and reveal how stupid your theory is. Cat was out the bag. And you didn't even realize it. This theory that DP Tyrant eats all the Elder Gods and Skyfathers is horsesh1t because YOU ARGUED AGAINST THE DEMIURGE EVEN BEING IN CONTINUITY. ^ Yeah, that's your post in this thread AMONGST MANY OTHERS. Funny enough, I clearly remember you arguing the exact opposite in this thread: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=547590&pagenumber=1 Hmm... let's take a look shall we? I mean... it's not like you were completely arguing the exact opposite, right? Yeah, you did: Hmph. Why the phucking 180 degree turn?
Because it looks like the entities mentioned in Secret Avengers "Abyss" and "the Darkest Child" are argued by some as NOT being Set. There is debate over who those beings are. That's why I didn't include them in my Set respect thread (I did include the scans with Nova wearing the Serpent Crown of Thorns because it was indisputable that it was a Setian creation since it mirrors the look of the Earth's Serpent Crown. The other crown, the Tentacled Crown has no similarity to any Serpent Crown shown on panel prior to that issue). Even the Appendix to the Marvel Universe disputes that the entity in the Secret Avengers arc was Set.
And regarding the Mystic Arcana issues, a friend of mine pointed out the page where Demiurge is indeed mentioned as the creator of the Gods. And he was mentioned again in 2007 Encyclopedia Mythologica.
That you cannot contain this trainwreck in a single thread is hilarious. But I'll happily have you argue with yourself as long as you keep it up:
Originally posted by zopzop
Because it looks like the entities mentioned in Secret Avengers "Abyss" and "the Darkest Child" are argued by some as NOT being Set. There is debate over who those beings are. That's why I didn't include them in my Set respect thread (I did include the scans with Nova wearing the Serpent Crown of Thorns because it was indisputable that it was a Setian creation since it mirrors the look of the Earth's Serpent Crown. The other crown, the Tentacled Crown has no similarity to any Serpent Crown shown on panel prior to that issue). Even the Appendix to the Marvel Universe disputes that the entity in the Secret Avengers arc was Set.
Originally posted by zopzop
The mural at the site of the "Tentacle Crown" was a dead give away and here is the location of the main crown in the image of Set flanked by tentacles of stone, exactly as the mural at the previous "Tentacle Crown" depicted.Now if the Set isn't the Father in question AND he's not the Darkest Child imprisoned on Mars, why would the worshipers of the Darkest Child being "touched by Abyss" create a crown in Set's image? If Set was merely another of the Abyss' children, why would it's brother make a crown"touched by Abyss" in the image of it's brother and not it's sire?!
Originally posted by zopzopChaos War was published in 2010. Secret Avengers was published in 2010 also. You know how I know that? Well... you kept arguing how more recent evidence rules:
And regarding the Mystic Arcana issues, a friend of mine pointed out the page where Demiurge is indeed mentioned as the creator of the Gods. And he was mentioned again in 2007 Encyclopedia Mythologica.
Originally posted by zopzophttp://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=547590&pagenumber=1
This has been retconned you know.Gaea is not created by the Demiurge anymore according to Chaos War.
And Set is older than Galactus or the Celestials and preexisted as the great darkness, no mention of Demiurge in his creation either. This was from Secret Avengers 1-4.
Old zopzop's got a point. 2007 handbook doesn't trump 2010 comics on-panel. zopzop has got you cornered zopzop... what are you going to argue next??? 😂
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
That you cannot contain this trainwreck in a single thread is hilarious. But I'll happily have you argue with yourself as long as you keep it up:Chaos War was published in 2010. Secret Avengers was published in 2010 also. You know how I know that? Well... you kept arguing how more recent evidence rules: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=547590&pagenumber=1
Old zopzop's got a point. 2007 handbook doesn't trump 2010 comics on-panel. zopzop has got you cornered zopzop... what are you going to argue next??? 😂
Genius, I was WRONG about Set being "Abyss" or "The Darkest Child" in the Secret Avengers arc. I was also wrong about Demiurge not being mentioned in Mystic Arcana/Tarot as creator of the Gods and another poster pointed out the page where it was stated.
Originally posted by zopzop
Genius, I was WRONG about Set being "Abyss" or "The Darkest Child" in the Secret Avengers arc. I was also wrong about Demiurge not being mentioned in Mystic Arcana/Tarot as creator of the Gods and another poster pointed out the page where it was stated.
Originally posted by zopzop😂 Old zopzop has a point, one way or another, there was a retcon or "Abyss" is Set. 😂
If "Abyss" isn't Set but some other evil who is the Father of Set, the Darkest Child, and their siblings then there HAS been a retconn since it was stated that the Demiurge created Set and the other Elder Gods.If "Abyss" is just another name for Set, then he's the one mentioned as the Father of the Darkest Child and it's siblings and he predates this reality and this again retconns the Demiurge creation story of the Elder Gods.
There's been a retcon.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
:Lol:
🙄
See this :
If "Abyss" isn't Set but some other evil who is the Father of Set, the Darkest Child, and their siblings then there HAS been a retconn since it was stated that the Demiurge created Set and the other Elder Gods.
There hadn't been a retcon.
Originally posted by zopzop
🙄See this :
This was wrong because another poster told me the page of Mystic Arcana/Tarot where Demiurge is mentioned as the creator of the Gods, you still continue with this childishness?
There hadn't been a retcon.
Originally posted by zopzopOld zopzop has a point... Chaos War (2010) postdates Mystic Arcana: The Marvel Tarot (2007) by three years! More recent evidence rules! 😂 Listen to this guy here:
This has been retconned you know.Gaea is not created by the Demiurge anymore according to Chaos War.
Originally posted by zopzopHe's got a point! 😂
Easy, originally the story was the Demiurge created the Elder Gods on Earth billions of years ago.According to Chaos War this isn't the case anymore with Gaea.
Hence the retconn 😄
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Old zopzop has a point... Chaos War (2010) postdates Mystic Arcana: The Marvel Tarot (2007) by three years! More recent evidence rules! 😂 Listen to this guy here: He's got a point! 😂
Assuming that's true, that CW did indeed retcon Gaea's creation story. How was Atum/Demogorge created then?
Originally posted by zopzop
Assuming that's true, that CW did indeed retcon Gaea's creation story. How was Atum/Demogorge created then?
Originally posted by zopzopSeems like old zopzop is right... if there is no Demiurge and he's been retconned out, then Atum's new unique origin story hasn't been established yet like with Oshtur and Chthon:
It seems Marvel is giving them each a unique origin story. The "Demiurge created them" hasn't been mentioned since 1989.
Originally posted by zopzopWhat we do know is, according to you that is, there is no Demiurge anymore so we're just waiting on the "new origin stories" that don't involve Demiurge: 😂
Which retcon? Gaea's or Set's?Whoever wrote Chaos War 3-4 wrote the Gaea retconn.
Whoever wrote Secret Avengers 1-4 wrote the Set retconn.
Oshtur and Chthon don't have new origin stories yet.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Seems like old zopzop is right... if there is no Demiurge and he's been retconned out, then Atum's new unique origin story hasn't been established yet. What we do know is, according to you that is, there is no Demiurge anymore. This is also true, according to you: 😂
THis is why "conversations" with you are a waste of time. If it isn't childish spamming it's something else like roid rage posts that have nothing to do with the discussion and cause the thread to go off on tangets. Nice job.
Originally posted by zopzop
THis is why "conversations" with you are a waste of time. If it isn't childish spamming it's something else like roid rage posts that have nothing to do with the discussion and cause the thread to go off on tangets. Nice job.
Originally posted by zopzophttp://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=547590&pagenumber=2
the relationship between the various Elders seems to be disintegrating. Chaos War with Gaea and Secret Avengers with Set are examples.And only you could be so dense and biased that you'd ignore what's on panel because it doesn't jibe with how you see things. This isn't the first time you've done this.
Your own words! Across two threads and encompassing almost two pages you're just arguing with yourself and you're doing it consciously! 😂
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=547590&pagenumber=2Your own words! Across two threads and encompassing almost two pages you're just arguing with yourself and you're doing it consciously! 😂
Yes, my own words, a year old and I already admitted I was wrong because another poster TOLD me that the Demiurge was indeed mentioned in Arcana/Tarot.
Add that to the fact that there is no clear proof that the beings in Secret Avengers are Set.
^ Not to zopzop!!!! He's still got a trick up his sleeve to pull against old zopzop! You'll see! 😄 I'm sure he'll argue that an older handbook he misread... somehow trumps a more recent on-panel comic book scan!!
Originally posted by zopzop
Yes, my own words, a year old and I already admitted I was wrong because another poster TOLD me that the Demiurge was indeed mentioned in Arcana/Tarot.
Originally posted by zopzopAre you suggesting Chaos War (2010), which postdates Mystic Arcana: The Marvel Tarot (2007) by three years doesn't take more precedence and acts as a retcon?????? More recent evidence doesn't count??? PLEASE TELL ME YOU'LL GO THIS FAR.
Easy, originally the story was the Demiurge created the Elder Gods on Earth billions of years ago.According to Chaos War this isn't the case anymore
Originally posted by zopzop
Add that to the fact that there is no clear proof that the beings in Secret Avengers are Set.
Originally posted by zopzop
The mural at the site of the "Tentacle Crown" was a dead give away and here is the location of the main crown in the image of Set flanked by tentacles of stone, exactly as the mural at the previous "Tentacle Crown" depicted.Now if the Set isn't the Father in question AND he's not the Darkest Child imprisoned on Mars, why would the worshipers of the Darkest Child being "touched by Abyss" create a crown in Set's image? If Set was merely another of the Abyss' children, why would it's brother make a crown"touched by Abyss" in the image of it's brother and not it's sire?!
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Not to zopzop!!!! He's still got a trick up his sleeve to pull against old zopzop! You'll see! 😄 I'm sure he'll argue that an older handbook he misread... somehow trumps a more recent on-panel comic book scan!! Are you suggesting Chaos War (2010), which postdates Mystic Arcana: The Marvel Tarot (2007) by three years doesn't take more precedence and acts as a retcon?????? More recent evidence doesn't count??? PLEASE TELL ME YOU'LL GO THIS FAR.
What of it? I already said I was wrong about Demiurge not being mentioned in Arcana/Tarot so that's a non issue.
What's left is :
a) Whether one of the entities in the Secret Avengers arc is Set (there is dispute over this and the Marvel Appendix site says it's not).
b) The other issue is whether that one panel in CW retcons 30+ years of Marvel continuity. If it does, then what are the origins of Chthon, Set, Oshtur, and Atum/Demogorge?
^ 👆 So much for this whole Elder Gods and Skyfathers are pieces of the Demiurge theory... considering the Demiurge has been retconned out -- a fact pressed by zopzop in another thread and somehow "forgotten" when it comes to DP Tyrant! 😂
Originally posted by zopzopAgreed. An older handbook from 2007 means sh1t.
What of it? I already said I was wrong about Demiurge not being mentioned in Arcana/Tarot so that's a non issue.
Originally posted by zopzop
What's left is :a) Whether one of the entities in the Secret Avengers arc is Set (there is dispute over this and the Marvel Appendix site says it's not).
b) The other issue is whether that one panel in CW retcons 30+ years of Marvel continuity. If it does, then what are the origins of Chthon, Set, Oshtur, and Atum/Demogorge?
Originally posted by zopzop
Easy, originally the story was the Demiurge created the Elder Gods on Earth billions of years ago.According to Chaos War this isn't the case anymore with Gaea.
According to Secret Avengers 1-4, Set preexisted before this current universe.
Hence the retconn 😄
Oshtur and Chthon haven't had their new origin stories yet.
