Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ 👆 So much for this whole Elder Gods and Skyfathers are pieces of the Demiurge theory... considering the Demiurge has been retconned out -- a fact pressed by zopzop in another thread and somehow "forgotten" when it comes to DP Tyrant! 😂 Agreed. An older handbook from 2007 means sh1t.
Heeey, that's cheating. You got the guy debating against himself.
pssst...how do you do that?
^ I can't take credit for it. I can only offer you a step-by-step chronology for it all. The story begins with zopzop's love for the Elder God, Set. And it showed. He was preparing a Set Respect Thread. When Secret Avengers #1-4 came out and pretty much intimated that Set may have predated the universe, he seized on it for all it was worth. It made Set more than just a mere Elder God dependent on the planet Earth. And when Chaos War came out that same year and Gaea was revealed to have not been birthed by the Demiurge but literally came out of the void that was Amatsu-Mikaboshi who predated the universe, this only lent collateral support for the idea that Set may also have had loftier, more ancient origins!
But zopzop never forgot that he also hated Galactus, who constantly got credit for being superior to Odin (unjustifiably in his eyes). So when it came time to hype up another character to spite Galactus, DP Tyrant was the candidate he backed. After all, DP Tyrant defeated Galactus by absorbing his BSE. But so many posters seemed to arbitrarily disregard that, that zopzop had to support DP Tyrant at every turn. Eventually... zopzop was running into arguments that pitted DP Tyrant against Skyfathers. And the top Skyfather, Odin, had just lost convincingly to Galactus. So DP Tyrant needed repping. And zopzop repped him hard. Rather than focus on physical comparisons (which inevitably made him look inferior to Odin), zopzop found what he believed to be his trump card: absorbing BSE.
zopzop well remembered that the Demiurge was BSE. And if he could ignore the eons that passed by, the degrees of ancestry and separation that changed the original Demiurge energies, and the numerous on-panel retcons to the original Demiurge origins... maybe... just maybe he could convince people that DP Tyrant could easily deal with Skyfathers. Which would backhandedly make him look definitively superior to Galactus who had a difficult time with just one recently.
So zopzop did just that. Enter the last few threads. The problem for him, however, was this: to rep and enhance Set's image earlier, zopzop needed to sell the retcon of the Demiurge away -- after all, Set and Gaea ultimately originating from a portion of the planet Earth's energies seemed sort of trite. But his "DP Tyrant eats piece-of-Demiurge Skyfathers easily" theory completely depended on the Demiurge staying in continuity and its energies' chain of evolution being virtually unbroken through the eons from the original Elder Gods straight down to guys like Odin.
How would he possibly get around this? How could he possibly reconcile the contradiction now?
He wouldn't. He couldn't. And he didn't let it go and it ended up in him arguing with himself in two different threads for nearly two pages. Several fingers were pointed. Some pity was given. Much hilarity ensued. Life went on.
The End.
Originally posted by hunbu04
And the again in Incerdible Hercules Hera vision of the future disprove that again. In the beginning the was Chaos aka the chaos king and from the nothingness came Gaea the first being in creation. Chaos war may be a crappy event but it prove Hera vision. Gaea even show super god hercules how creation/Life fought it way out the Chaos . The Demiurge is not even mention once and since Chaos war is the most recent all the other was recounted by it
I know that you're talking about that time Hera was explaining the purpose of Continuum(Assault on new Olympus).Hera was talking about the story of creation in a greek mythology point of view.Because the story of creation for the greeks didn't involve the Demiurge.To them, Gaea emerged out of Chaos(Nothingness) and birthed Uranus.The Greeks simply didn't have there own version of Demiurge.If you're looking for a version of Demiurge in Mythology, the Egyptian Pantheon is the one you're looking for since Gaea and Demiurge was Neith and Nun to the Egyptians.If it was Isis who was telling the story of creation, she would involve Gaea and Demiurge.So Demiurge wasn't retconned at all.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ I can't take credit for it. I can only offer you a step-by-step chronology for it all. The story begins with zopzop's love for the Elder God, Set. And it showed. He was preparing a Set Respect Thread. When Secret Avengers #1-4 came out and pretty much intimated that Set may have predated the universe, he seized on it for all it was worth. It made Set more than just a mere Elder God dependent on the planet Earth. And when Chaos War came out that same year and Gaea was revealed to have not been birthed by the Demiurge but literally came out of the void that was Amatsu-Mikaboshi who predated the universe, this only lent collateral support for the idea that Set may also have had loftier, more ancient origins!But zopzop never forgot that he also hated Galactus, who constantly got credit for being superior to Odin (unjustifiably in his eyes). So when it came time to hype up another character to spite Galactus, DP Tyrant was the candidate he backed. After all, DP Tyrant defeated Galactus by absorbing his BSE. But so many posters seemed to arbitrarily disregard that, that zopzop had to support DP Tyrant at every turn. Eventually... zopzop was running into arguments that pitted DP Tyrant against Skyfathers. And the top Skyfather, Odin, had just lost convincingly to Galactus. So DP Tyrant needed repping. And zopzop repped him hard. Rather than focus on physical comparisons (which inevitably made him look inferior to Odin), zopzop found what he believed to be his trump card: absorbing BSE.
zopzop well remembered that the Demiurge was BSE. And if he could ignore the eons that passed by, the degrees of ancestry and separation that changed the original Demiurge energies, and the numerous on-panel retcons to the original Demiurge origins... maybe... just maybe he could convince people that DP Tyrant could easily deal with Skyfathers. Which would backhandedly make him look definitively superior to Galactus who had a difficult time with just one recently.
So zopzop did just that. Enter the last few threads. The problem for him, however, was this: to rep and enhance Set's image earlier, zopzop needed to sell the retcon of the Demiurge away -- after all, Set and Gaea ultimately originating from a portion of the planet Earth's energies seemed sort of trite. But his "DP Tyrant eats piece-of-Demiurge Skyfathers easily" theory completely depended on the Demiurge staying in continuity and its energies' chain of evolution being virtually unbroken through the eons from the original Elder Gods straight down to guys like Odin.
How would he possibly get around this? How could he possibly reconcile the contradiction now?
He wouldn't. He couldn't. And he didn't let it go and it ended up in him arguing with himself in two different threads for nearly two pages. Several fingers were pointed. Some pity was given. Much hilarity ensued. Life went on.
[b]The End.
[/B]
Wrong as usual.
When I made those statements :
a) I missed the Demiurge references in Arcana/Tarot and thought that the Demiurge was retconned out of the origins of the Elder Gods.
This turned out to be false.
b) I thought that Set was the "Abyss" being mentioned in the Secret Avengers arc.
This is debatable. No one knows if it's Set or not. The Appendix to the Marvel Universe site, that Marvel.com links to, says it's not. So there's no proof either way.
c) Assuming Gaea's origin was indeed retconned and not just told through Hera's perspective as a Greek God, where does that leave Chthon, Set, Oshtur, and Atum/Demogorge?
You've spammed two threads now posting this nonsense. All you have is b) the unknown "Abyss' entity that pre dates creation in Secret Avengers and c) Hera's retelling of Gaea's origin.
Meanwhile you ignore on panel scans and handbook entries saying the Gods are nothing more than beings given substance by the Demiurge (the planet's biosphere) and form by the minds of man.
You can deflect, name call, spam all you want, you can't change that. That's why you cling to c) above thinking you have a point.
Originally posted by IgnizDemiurge hasn't been seen on-panel since 1989. In any event, you're likely not aware of what Hercules w/ omniscience, Amatsu-Mikaboshi, Gaea and Eternity all confirmed that Amatsu-Mikaboshi was the universal void before anything in Chaos War and its tie-ins. They all corroborated the foreshadowing by Hera that Amatsu-Mikaboshi was the void. And Amatsu-Mikaboshi's eventual absorption of multiple planets, panethons, etc. confirmed their words so it wasn't all mere aggrandization.
I know that you're talking about that time Hera was explaining the purpose of Continuum(Assault on new Olympus).Hera was talking about the story of creation in a greek mythology point of view.Because the story of creation for the greeks didn't involve the Demiurge.To them, Gaea emerged out of Chaos(Nothingness) and birthed Uranus.The Greeks simply didn't have there own version of Demiurge.If you're looking for a version of Demiurge in Mythology, the Egyptian Pantheon is the one you're looking for since Gaea and Demiurge was Neith and Nun to the Egyptians.If it was Isis who was telling the story of creation, she would involve Gaea and Demiurge.So Demiurge wasn't retconned at all.
Gaea herself confirmed that she was the first thing formed spontaneously and she was the true font of creation. This further coroborated the accoun told by Hera. And Supergod Hercules found his true All-Father status in Gaea's embrace and nearly became Chaos King's peer so it isn't just mere aggrandization.
If they're all right -- and they all corroborate each other and the levels of power exhibited support it too -- Gaea came first out of the void. She, not the Demiurge, was the source of all the gods. She was not one sibling among hordes along with other Elder Gods.
Like zopzop said. Until Gaea is retconned back, Demiurge is retconned out.
Originally posted by zopzopShut up already. You not only admitted that this handbook evidence from 2007 doesn't overturn the actual on-panel retcons from Chaos War in 2010.
Wrong as usual.When I made those statements :
a) I missed the Demiurge references in Arcana/Tarot and thought that the Demiurge was retconned out of the origins of the Elder Gods.
This turned out to be false.
Originally posted by zopzopWho the phuck cares about your flip-flopping on this. You're making the same god damn arguments based on the same exact evidence that WhiteWitchKing threw at you and you dismissed it completely out of turn. Now that it's convenient for you to accept it you will? Who the phuck cares about your flip-flopping. The main retcon is the Amatsu-Mikaboshi and Gaea retcon.
b) I thought that Set was the "Abyss" being mentioned in the Secret Avengers arc.This is debatable. No one knows if it's Set or not. The Appendix to the Marvel Universe site, that Marvel.com links to, says it's not. So there's no proof either way.
Originally posted by zopzopYeah, it wasn't just Hera. How unsurpising that when you finally found all the issues I've been telling you to read, you managed to gloss over all the corroboration and confirmation and evidence. And like you said multiple times to people who ASKED SAME EXACT QUESTIONS OF YOU: Set was retconned in Secret Avengers, Chthon and Oshtur haven't had their new origins told yet. As for Atum, the simplest answer is the most likely: Atum can still be Gaea's son, but as there is no Demiurge, she birthed him immaculately on her own.
c) Assuming Gaea's origin was indeed retconned and not just told through Hera's perspective as a Greek God, where does that leave Chthon, Set, Oshtur, and Atum/Demogorge?
Originally posted by zopzopShut the phuck up with your trolling. You quanchiwaffled like a flopping fish. Every argument you're peddling now, you rebutted fiercely for pages and pages on end in a different thread. Every rebuttal of mine here mirrors your arguments in the other thread.
You've spammed two threads now posting this nonsense. All you have is b) the unknown "Abyss' entity that pre dates creation in Secret Avengers and c) Hera's retelling of Gaea's origin.Meanwhile you ignore on panel scans and handbook entries saying the Gods are nothing more than beings given substance by the Demiurge (the planet's biosphere) and form by the minds of man.
You can deflect, name call, spam all you want, you can't change that. That's why you cling to c) above thinking you have a point.
The bottom-line is this: Chaos War is the most recent evidence and it evidences a retcon that leaves no place for the Demiurge. You already accept that significant portion of the retcon involving Amatsu-Mikaboshi so your disbelief in Gaea's portion (equally important) is a complete farce. Since there is no strictly biospheric entity Demiurge, there is no chain of BSE from origin to Elder Gods to Skyfathers. Accordingly, your argument that the Elder Gods and Skyfathers are just pieces of the Demiurge that are snackables for DP Tyrant is baseless.
The main problem is: YOU KNEW THIS. Because you argued for PAGES IN ANOTHER THREAD that the Demiurge was retconned out. So all your recent arguments these past few months are horsesh1t and have been horsesh1t. And you've been blatantly aware of this the entire time. There's a word I've been using consistently from beginning to end: pathetic.
It's as apt a word as any to describe this recent crusade of misinformation of your's. Especially because you yourself are largely responsible for highlighting the finer points when arguing under a different context. Get lost.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Shut up already. You not only admitted that this handbook evidence from 2007 doesn't overturn the actual on-panel retcons from Chaos War in 2010. Who the phuck cares about your flip-flopping on this. You're making the same god damn arguments based on the same exact evidence that WhiteWitchKing threw at you and you dismissed it completely out of turn. Now that it's convenient for you to accept it you will? Who the phuck cares about your flip-flopping. The main retcon is the Amatsu-Mikaboshi and Gaea retcon.
Yeah, it wasn't just Hera. How unsurpising that when you finally found all the issues I've been telling you to read, you managed to gloss over all the corroboration and confirmation and evidence. And like you said multiple times to people who ASKED SAME EXACT QUESTIONS OF YOU: Set was retconned in Secret Avengers, Chthon and Oshtur haven't had their new origins told yet. As for Atum, the simplest answer is the most likely: Atum can still be Gaea's son, but as there is no Demiurge, she birthed him immaculately on her own. Shut the phuck up with your trolling. You quanchiwaffled like a flopping fish. Every argument you're peddling now, you rebutted fiercely for pages and pages on end in a different thread. Every rebuttal of mine here mirrors your arguments in the other thread.The bottom-line is this: Chaos War is the most recent evidence and it evidences a retcon that leaves no place for the Demiurge. You already accept that significant portion of the retcon involving Amatsu-Mikaboshi so your disbelief in Gaea's portion (equally important) is a complete farce. Since there is no strictly biospheric entity Demiurge, there is no chain of BSE from origin to Elder Gods to Skyfathers. Accordingly, your argument that the Elder Gods and Skyfathers are just pieces of the Demiurge that are snackables for DP Tyrant is baseless.
The main problem is: YOU KNEW THIS. Because you argued for PAGES IN ANOTHER THREAD that the Demiurge was retconned out. So all your recent arguments these past few months are horsesh1t and have been horsesh1t. And you've been blatantly aware of this the entire time. There's a word I've been using consistently from beginning to end: [b]pathetic.
It's as apt a word as any to describe this recent crusade of misinformation of your's. Especially because you yourself are largely responsible for highlighting the finer points when arguing under a different context. Get lost. [/B]
Chaos War is the most recent issue this is true. And even if we assume Gaea's origin was retconned, it was sloppy writing since that leaves Chthon, Set, Oshtur and Atum/Demogorge without origin stories.
That's the ONLY point you have. Bringing up the debatable nature of the character "Abyss" mentioned in the Secret Avengers does nothing. No one has conclusive proof one way or another if Set was that being, "Abyss". Even my respect thread for Set left out the "Abyss" scans because who "Abyss" is, is in dispute.
That one panel in CW, that supposedly retcons 30+ years of Marvel continuity and has NO explaination for the origins of Chthon and crew, is the only legit point you've brought up so far.
If that one panel isn't a retcon and merely a retelling of events from the view of the Greek Pantheon, Tyrant's BSE based powers and abilities win it for him.
Originally posted by zopzopFixed and shortened to point out all that is relevant in your mewling schpeal.
Chaos War is the most recent multi-issue long storyline this is true. And even if weassumeknow Gaea's origin was retconned as I already admitted and argued to others in a different thread
Originally posted by zopzopWhat else do I need to prove what a lying fraud you've been this entire time? Pleading from ignorance that you're not aware of Supergod Hercules source of true power, i.e., Gaea, arguing that Demiurge was still in continuity, arguing that Gaea and Set are just pieces of the Demiurge. It was all bullsh1t for your flava of the month character, DP Tyrant and you knew it: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=547590&pagenumber=1
That's the ONLY point you have.
Originally posted by zopzopKeep pretending that you don't know that Supergod Hercules, Amatsu-Mikaboshi, Gaea and Eternity corroborated the relevant parts of the retcon told by Hera about BOTH Amatsu-Mikaboshi AND Gaea. And that Amatsu-Mikaboshi's feats and Gaea's empowerment of Supergod Hercules to nearly match Chaos King prove it.
If that one panel isn't a retcon and merely a retelling of events from the view of the Greek Pantheon, Tyrant's BSE based powers and abilities win it for him.
If I had delicate sensibilities, they'd be offended. At this point, your sh1t lies stink like any other sh1t lies I've encountered on KMC. The sad thing is, you dug your own grave in another thread and provided all the counter-arguments to the deflections and red herrings you're offering now. Or you're just copying all of the deflections and red herrings that were presented to you and you never believed back then.
The only surprising thing is you were so committed that even after being exposed, you subjected yourself to arguing with yourself for pages across two threads. Hall of Fame for you, bud.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Demiurge hasn't been seen on-panel since 1989. In any event, you're likely not aware of what Hercules w/ omniscience, Amatsu-Mikaboshi, Gaea and Eternity all confirmed that Amatsu-Mikaboshi was the universal void before anything in Chaos War and its tie-ins. They all corroborated the foreshadowing by Hera that Amatsu-Mikaboshi was the void. And Amatsu-Mikaboshi's eventual absorption of multiple planets, panethons, etc. confirmed their words so it wasn't all mere aggrandization.Gaea herself confirmed that she was the first thing formed spontaneously and she was the true font of creation. This further coroborated the accoun told by Hera. And Supergod Hercules found his true All-Father status in Gaea's embrace and nearly became Chaos King's peer so it isn't just mere aggrandization.
If they're all right -- and they all corroborate each other and the levels of power exhibited support it too -- Gaea came first out of the void. She, not the Demiurge, was the source of all the gods. She was not one sibling among hordes along with other Elder Gods.
Like zopzop said. Until Gaea is retconned back, Demiurge is retconned out.
I know about that scene were Gaea stated she was the font of creation.Font(Noun)-a specific size and style of type within a type family.
Then here's the scene were Thrann(A Zenn-lanian God) is telling the creation story of the Marvel Universe.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/OriginOfMU1.jpg?t=1303176334
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/OriginOfMU2.jpg?t=1303176492
And then there's Siri Uli who mentions she is Mother to many.Creation is a Joy as seen here.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/GodofZenn-laFallslikecosmicleaves1.jpg?t=1303176777
Point is.Gaea,Thrann and Siri Uli are different from one another but belonging to the same type.They are all Fonts of Creation in their respective pantheon or planet that they are Gods.They are all telling creation in their own point of view.If we take all of this to account, To my point of view, the Demiurge hasn't been retconned.
Originally posted by zopzop
Of course I've addressed in. But you don't like it so you ignore it.Galactus CAN attempt to eat the Gods since according to on panel information AND the handbooks they are nothing more than BSE given form by mortal minds.
The PROBLEM for Galactus is, sans his machines, his BSE absorption abilities are nowhere near as good as Tyrant's (since Tyrant showed the ability to absorb and amp off even SYNTESIZED BSE on the fly).
Hasn't he devoured or gone into the process of eating the realms of elder gods sans tech?
Originally posted by IgnizThat's not what font meant, you're using the typeface definition. Font is another word for fount or source.
I know about that scene were Gaea stated she was the font of creation.Font(Noun)-a specific size and style of type within a type family.Then here's the scene were Thrann(A Zenn-lanian God) is telling the creation story of the Marvel Universe.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/OriginOfMU1.jpg?t=1303176334
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/OriginOfMU2.jpg?t=1303176492And then there's Siri Uli who mentions she is Mother to many.Creation is a Joy as seen here.
http://i1081.photobucket.com/albums/j351/igniz5/GodofZenn-laFallslikecosmicleaves1.jpg?t=1303176777
Point is.Gaea,Thrann and Siri Uli are different from one another but belonging to the same type.They are all Fonts of Creation in their respective pantheon or planet that they are Gods.They are all telling creation in their own point of view.If we take all of this to account, To my point of view, the Demiurge hasn't been retconned.
Thrann mentions a void and a Prime Mover who created everything and a cosmic plane from which he was birthed; Thrann himself only gave light to the mortals, not other gods. Siri Uli mentions she has been mother to many, she is not specific as to whether she means gods or not. In any event, neither of them have anything to do with Gaea forming out of the void spontaneously and Gaea birthing the Earth's pantheons. And Gaea's new origin, confirmed by both her and Hera, leave no room for an amorphous energy entity, Demiurge, who evolved from the Earth, well after the void was filled with the universe. You can believe what you like, but I am at a loss at how to explain it any clearer.
Originally posted by janus77I though G has been made sick from eating certain entities or races. I can't remember the book though.
doesn't Galactus munch on "biospheric energies" for a greater purpose? he can consume the universe, I'm guessing his stomach doesn't quibble with the types of energies it gets.
