At least in the Dark Nest Saga the Jedi Order used Force Lightning and drew upon the darkside. They even used torture during that period, until Luke got uncomfortable about the whole thing.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
If you were expecting planet shattering power then you will feel disappointed and it also goes against the purpose of the story.However, Drew left a hint for a reason; Revan did not focused or channel the power he gathered by using both the Light and Dark sides of the Force.
The feat itself was not a joke but a display of immense understanding of Revan of the Force. Revan was under telepathic assault and he wanted to break free. He did not had time to think. I don't understand that why you fail to get this point. It isn't rocket science.
And you are fooling yourself, if you think that Force push would have worked against Vitiate. Remember that the Force push did not work against an Elite Guard, whose resistance was being augmented by the power of the Sith Emperor.
Nope, you're incorrect on that. Revan knew about the telepathic assault beforehand and had planned a way to counter it, even going so far as to teach this method to Scourge and the Exile. When the Emperor started his attack Revan knew what to do and did it. He was obviously not surprised by Vitiates assault nor was he reacting in desperation.
I was being flippant about the Force Push to indicate the extreme inadequacy of the attack. The Light and Dark sides in their most pure form = Less powerful than a hand genade. Rofl. It really makes Vader look like a blustering moron in ANH huh? But Force Push not working on the guards is very interesting. Who was using it on them? To be unaffected by beyond Master-level combatants Force Pushes as all of Revan's team was is a useful and powerful ability.
So what is the list of individuals who have this philosophy like Revan, that light and dark side are one and the same in truth and power.1. Revan
2. Jacen Solo
He lost in lightsaber fight to Kam Solusar's clone, yet, he was able to kill him.
At the end he accepted his doubts, that true Jedi should never stop search for answers.
I am waiting for sequel novel.
God no! Luke is pure lightsider. The only time he attempted to understand darkside was, when Palpatine returned but failed. Since he never used darkside again.
Did Luke Skywalker use both light side and dark side powers, and did he believe the force is also one (both dark and light side intertwined).
In dark nest he started Force choking Welk but then quickly amended himself as it is against his morals. And Welk had lightsaber on him, while Luke's was broken, so he would rather put himself in danger, than use darkside.
The only one he killed using Force directly was one of the Slayers in final fight With Yuuzhan Vong but he did it with Electric Jadgement, which is not darkside power and he couldn't feel Vong death anyway.
There is an image depicting Luke using Force lightning/Electric Judgement on Gorog killiks but it is falce as it never happened in the novel.
At least in the Dark Nest Saga the Jedi Order used Force Lightning and drew upon the darkside. They even used torture during that period, until Luke got uncomfortable about the whole thing.
Originally posted by Arhael
Yes, it wasn't simple Force push. It was strong Force push. 🤣
Force push is a focused Telekinetic power.
Originally posted by Arhael
That his fancy use of both sides didn't give Revan the power to overcome pure darksider.
Originally posted by Arhael
That was sarcasm...
Originally posted by Arhael
He didn't channel but he did focus. Focusing can be instantaneous, you know.
But instead of focusing or channeling the Force, he released it in its purest form.
Don't argue for just the sake of argument. Try to understand the point.
Originally posted by Arhael
We, also, don't know what was the source of those darkside powers. It's actually fail from writer to dismiss emotional state as it is the main factor in what way Force is used. So really we can only guess what those light and darkside powers were about.
Originally posted by Arhael
No, he can't. Jacen is the only known Sith to channel his own pain into power. Maybe there were a few others but Revan doesn't fall under this category.
And we cannot boldly exclude Revan from the equation, given his command of the Force. We don't know his full capabilities yet.
Originally posted by Arhael
He understood, he learned to balance... But it is all his personal opinion of the Force that is not guaranteed to be true and most effective.
Originally posted by Arhael
So if it is your enemy, then it is alright to test on him mind domination, Force choke him and feed on his fear at the same time, e.g. Ye, that's fine. I will not succumb to darkside, I'll just test how it works, so I have something to balance on later.
Also, a Force-user who does not restricts himself to Jedi philosophy may not restrict his offensive moves accordingly. Simple.
Originally posted by Arhael
No, he is equal in combat. Not equal in power, if to be precise. Vaapad believer!"caught of guard".
Originally posted by Arhael
No, it doesn't.
Originally posted by Arhael
It's a fact that using both sides gives you versatility an certain advantages in a fight. Yet, there is not a single evidence of it giving power beyond what light and dark sides can give individually.
Originally posted by Arhael
Intention don't matter, it didn't give him power to defeat Vitiate. Using darkside prevented him from becoming Champion of the light.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Nope, you're incorrect on that. Revan knew about the telepathic assault beforehand and had planned a way to counter it, even going so far as to teach this method to Scourge and the Exile. When the Emperor started his attack Revan knew what to do and did it. He was obviously not surprised by Vitiates assault nor was he reacting in desperation.
Originally posted by Nephthys
I was being flippant about the Force Push to indicate the extreme inadequacy of the attack. The Light and Dark sides in their most pure form = Less powerful than a hand genade. Rofl. It really makes Vader look like a blustering moron in ANH huh?
Also, the energy was not released in a focused manner or properly channeled against a target. It was released in raw form and dissipated rather quickly. The hall itself was huge so damage did not occur or Drew failed to delve in to details. It seems as if he rushed the novel for release because several parts of the story seem to be underdeveloped.
Originally posted by Nephthys
But Force Push not working on the guards is very interesting. Who was using it on them? To be unaffected by beyond Master-level combatants Force Pushes as all of Revan's team was is a useful and powerful ability.
It wasn't. It was a blast of power.Call it whatever. 😠 Describing each Force push as Force push would be too boring and uncreative of writers. Telekinesis is definition for moving objects without touching them. Vitiate is an object, he was moved without touching. Conclusion? 😄Force push is a focused Telekinetic power.
Revan overpowered Vitiate when he used this capability. This is the point. I am not talking about the whole duel.
Don't argue for just the sake of argument. Try to understand the point.Ok Ok. Like I must remember each word exactly. I should have used word "exertion". -_-.
Sion is another. Malgus is also capable of doing this, I believe.Sion is good example, though it worked different way, more like price for immortality. But Malgus couldn't embrace pain.
And we cannot boldly exclude Revan from the equation, given his command of the Force. We don't know his full capabilities yet.Hmm, I thought there was lvl50 Revan boss in ToR with full capabilities 🤣
It is. Revan found great clarity in the Force and managed to use both the Light and Dark sides to draw strength, even simultaneously and did not succumbed to the dark side in doing so. This is sufficient evidence.It didn't give him power beyond what light and dark could give individually. This is sufficient evidence. He just built his own understanding of the Force, which just happened to prove useless against Vitiate.
So it is wrong to defend yourself? Morality is not the point here.Also, a Force-user who does not restricts himself to Jedi philosophy may not restrict his offensive moves accordingly. Simple.
I did not get your point. Can you elaborate?Tired on elaborating as you keep stating that Revan overpowered Vitiate, when he never did.
My point is that stronger individual typically dominates in a fight unless the circumstances or exceptions favor the weaker opponent. Where am I wrong? Or do you assume that the stronger individual is typically more stupid too?Typically strength is not deciding factor and each fighter has his own advantages. Typically Sith are always more powerful and practiced in combat much harder than Jedi, yet, history shows that Sith keep loosing. Jedi Knight enters Vitiate's chamber(enemies field) with nothing but lightsaber... and than defeats Vitiate. Where are specific circumstances and exceptions favoring Jedi?
Because Revan did not continously used the capability. When Revan did, he actually dominated his opponent. This is the point.Now he dominated Vitiate? Just for fun sake I will ask: WHEN?
Originally posted by Arhael
Call it whatever. 😠 Describing each Force push as Force push would be too boring and uncreative of writers. Telekinesis is definition for moving objects without touching them. Vitiate is an object, he was moved without touching. Conclusion? 😄
Really, mechanics are irrelevant to me, so it is pointless to try to prove anything to me about it.
Originally posted by Arhael
The Emperor, unprepared and with much of his strength diverted to his effort to dominate Revan's mind, was sent flying backward. Doesn't look like overpowering.
I wonder what Revan could accomplish, if he would focus or channel such power towards the target.
Originally posted by Arhael
Sion is good example, though it worked different way, more like price for immortality. But Malgus couldn't embrace pain.
Originally posted by Arhael
Hmm, I thought there was lvl50 Revan boss in ToR with full capabilities 🤣
Originally posted by Arhael
It didn't give him power beyond what light and dark could give individually. This is sufficient evidence. He just built his own understanding of the Force, which just happened to prove useless against Vitiate.
Originally posted by Arhael
That is very Sith logic.
Originally posted by Arhael
Tired on elaborating as you keep stating that Revan overpowered Vitiate, when he never did.
Originally posted by Arhael
Typically strength is not deciding factor and each fighter has his own advantages. Typically Sith are always more powerful and practiced in combat much harder than Jedi, yet, history shows that Sith keep loosing. Jedi Knight enters Vitiate's chamber(enemies field) with nothing but lightsaber... and than defeats Vitiate. Where are specific circumstances and exceptions favoring Jedi?
Originally posted by Arhael
Now he dominated Vitiate? Just for fun sake I will ask: WHEN?
It is not a pre-defined application of Telekinesis. It is a blast of energy in raw form.Force push is, also, a blast of energy as it does not requires to grasp the object you are pushing. That is why Jedi are waving hand as they are sending energy that "blasts" the target.
Do you think that Vitiate could be Force-pushed around? No.While Vitiate is heavily concentrating on mind-domination why not?
Malgus could endure pain for sure.Trying to ignore the pain to prevent getting too weak and embracing it as source of power to get stronger is not quite same things.
Not necessarily. Though he demonstrated a rarely known technique at the end of his duel - Fold space. He also performed Force Lightning Storm.Fock ye 😂
How did it proved to be useless against Vitiate? He managed to prevent Vitiate from dominating his mind.He could prevent him by throwing lightsaber instead. Irrelevant as Revan lost anyway.
People are underestimating this Jedi Knight. Also, Vitiate ended up at the wrong end of his blade somehow. In addition, Jedi Knight killed an avatar of Vitiate - not him exactly.
It was Vitiate himself. Then he transfered his essence to a new avatar. If, in your opinion, it was his Force projection, then you are seriously over-hyping him.
Originally posted by Arhael
Force push is, also, a blast of energy as it does not requires to grasp the object you are pushing. That is why Jedi are waving hand as they are sending energy that "blasts" the target.
Revan released the energy he gathered in a raw form without raising any hand. It was not an application of TK.
Originally posted by Arhael
While Vitiate is heavily concentrating on mind-domination why not?
Originally posted by Arhael
Trying to ignore the pain to prevent getting too weak and embracing it as source of power to get stronger is not quite same things.
Originally posted by Arhael
Fock ye 😂
Originally posted by Arhael
He could prevent him by throwing lightsaber instead.
Originally posted by Arhael
I don't underestimate him as he was true Jedi using lightside only, which puts him above Revan.
Originally posted by Arhael
It was Vitiate himself. Then he transfered his essence to a new avatar. If, in your opinion, it was his Force projection, then you are seriously over-hyping him.
Now you spoiled my imagination as I imagined him making that double handed Liu Kang move! 😠 Come on, let's not be precise. There are plenty of similar feats, when someone instantaneously made someone or something fly away and every time it is described in different way. In Jedi Academy Force push ability was sending multiple foes instantaneously. It is of course lame example but I prefer to generalize things that cause exactly same effect.
Revan released the energy he gathered in a raw form without raising any hand. It was not an application of TK.
😮💨
No comments, in this case. Just keep in mind that Revan was the Jedi Order' greatest champion.You know, I actually believe that he was champion of light during fight with Malak. Considering that he just turned Bastilla back to light he had plenty of positive emotions in him. Plus the fact that this fight was deciding fate of the galaxy should have eliminated any hints of dark emotions and turned into grim determination. There is fare chance that he used only lightside.
That individual was also an avatar.It was very same way Palpatine changed essences. But don't worry, with new update he will come back stronger, than before. Jedi Knight will need to up 10 more levels and become Jedi Master before killing him. 🤣
This thread was very informative, has anymore information been released regarding Revan and his unique use of dark and light side powers simultaneously as one?
Furthermore are there any extreme light side users that are violent, destructive? Basically extreme light side users with no jedi mindset to restrain them? Like...Light Side sith users, same mentality as sith but use light side powers.
Light Side: 1. Oneness with the Living Force, carrying out the Will of the Force. Dark Side Oneness pales in comparison to the Light Side Oneness that Jacen Solo and Luke attained because the Will of the Force empowers them with omnipotence, as much power as they need to defeat their foe.
2. Compassion is a lot more stable of an amp than hatred. When Yoda, Luke, and Galen Marek used the effects of the Light Side to give them power and focus.
Dark Side:
1. Sorcery, generally a Dark Side ability because it allows the Sith to harness unnatural and evil forces that far exceed any ability of the Light Side at the cost of the Sith wielding them. As with Nihilus being a wound, it decayed his body to a corpse and made him a slave to his hunger. As for Sidious, again is decayed his body. Using gauntlets and amulets and weapons of unspeakable monstrous power like the Dark Staff really destroys the Siths who wield them, or in the case of the Dark Staff consumes them with Force Drain. However, some sorcery does the opposite, it empowers the Sith and allows them to instantly kill, totally dominate minds, regenerate, and become immortal - Vitiate's Force Drain rituals, Plagueis' Midichlorian manipulation, Sidious' Essence Transfer, Darth Krayt's Dark Transfer.
2. Hatred can be stronger than compassion, though less stable, and can be channeled in a form of Dark Side Oneness to invigorate a Sith with greater focus and power; Zonakin, Bane, Malgus, etc.
Originally posted by Galan007
Mace/Vaapad is a prime example. Vaapad allowed him to tap both the light AND dark side, while maintaining complete control over said aspects. Upon so doing, he unmasked a power that allowed him to best Palpatine himself.That being said, a being who maintains absolute control (that is the key) over the light and dark sides can potentially tap into a reservoir of power well beyond what either side is capable of individually. Imo.
My sentiments are similar. The living force is said to encompass both the dark (destructive) and light side (sustaining).
So even Sith use some aspect of the lightside, since the power that sustains life comes from there.
I don't believe the dark is inherently evil, but it certainly represents the destructive side of the force. Which means that when a Jedi uses - let's say TK - to destroy something, he's using the darkside, even if there's no sith technique behind it.
Originally posted by AllanklesThe Will of the Force has empowered every character to the extent necessary to carry out its design.
My sentiments are similar. The living force is said to encompass both the dark (destructive) and light side (sustaining).So even Sith use some aspect of the lightside, since the power that sustains life comes from there.
I don't believe the dark is inherently evil, but it certainly represents the destructive side of the force. Which means that when a Jedi uses - let's say TK - to destroy something, he's using the darkside, even if there's no sith technique behind it.