Worldbreaker Hulk vs JLA

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Also forgot to mention Prof X was holding back.....which is the same reasoning I've seen people use when referencing the Hulk/Zeus fight, that Hulk was 'holding back'.

The last mind attack, yes, he was holding back...his first attack was to bring hulk down to prevent him from hurting his students...he failed. Then him and Emma attacked Hulks mind and failed again and X realized via entering Hulks mind on why Hulk was there fighting everyone and decided to give himself up, especially since he knew there wasnt a way of stopping him.

Originally posted by carver9
Hulk is completely resistant to mind attacks...none of that is working.

Again, not saying he's being attacked. That would imply force, something the Hulk is very well placed to resist.

You'll have to show something like this working in order for it to hold weight because I showed you Hulk being completely immune to any type of mind.soothing or attacks.

What, that MM has done it before, or that it has been done on WBH? For the latter, I cannot, because (as you well know) no one attempted to create a wish-fulfilment scenario for WBH. For the former, there's Prometheus, and around 30 White Martians, and other examples which don't immediately come to mind.

Lol...so MM is a more powerful telepath than both Xavier and Emma combined? Yeah right.

Please point out where I said that. I said more powerful than Emma. If you are attempting to twist my own words, and try and sell your interpretation back to me - I question your interpretation of a third party.

Sentry has the ability to mentally cool the Hulk down to the point that he reverts back to Banner (used this against Savage Hulk). Reed created a mimic of a device similar to Sentry powers...Hulk resists it.

Hulks mind was attacked the entire issue...nothing worked. Now show me that proof that it will work because I can post more mind attack scans if you want. [/B]

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Again, not saying he's being attacked. That would imply force, something the Hulk is very well placed to resist.

What, that MM has done it before, or that it has been done on WBH? For the latter, I cannot, because (as you well know) no one attempted to create a wish-fulfilment scenario for WBH. For the former, there's Prometheus, and around 30 White Martians, and other examples which don't immediately come to mind.

Please point out where I said that. I said more powerful than Emma. If you are attempting to twist my own words, and try and sell your interpretation back to me - I question your interpretation of a third party.

That's your problem - you're posting attacks. My strategy is more subtle and cunning than that - think hypnosis but on a much much grander scale. What proof do you want me to show - that someone has attempted this kind of tactic against WBH? You and I both know that won't happen, as in the 6 or so issues that WBH showed up in, all he did was smash.

So that's all I need to post is Hulk looking past illusions...overcoming them?

Originally posted by carver9
So that's all I need to post is Hulk looking past illusions...overcoming them?

Not just illusions, but whole identities. So not, say, something like Loki creating an illusion of multiple selves, and the Hulk selecting the correct one - I mean something on the level of the House of M.

I know that wasn't an illusion, but what I mean is, when MM did it to the Martians, they had no idea whatsoever they were Martians, or ever were MArtians. As far as they knew, they had always lived their lives as normal humans, and some of them were even firemen (back when Martians snuffed it at the sight of a match). So that is pretty powerful stuff - overriding genetic programming just like that.

And he did to to 30, or maybe 40 high class telepaths. Simultaneously, whilst going about his normal duties, so not even devoting that much effort to it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Not just illusions, but whole identities. So not, say, something like Loki creating an illusion of multiple selves, and the Hulk selecting the correct one - I mean something on the level of the House of M.

I know that wasn't an illusion, but what I mean is, when MM did it to the Martians, they had no idea whatsoever they were Martians, or ever were MArtians. As far as they knew, they had always lived their lives as normal humans, and some of them were even firemen (back when Martians snuffed it at the sight of a match). So that is pretty powerful stuff - overriding genetic programming just like that.

And he did to to 30, or maybe 40 high class telepaths. Simultaneously, whilst going about his normal duties, so not even devoting that much effort to it.

Even though I don't think it will work, how many Times out of 10 do you think MM will resort to this tactic.?

The thing is WBH is a 1000 time more powerful than WWH, MM isn't a 1000 times superior to Prof X or Dr Strange.

Originally posted by Deadline
The thing is WBH is a 1000 time more powerful than WBH, MM isn't a 1000 times superior to Prof X or Dr Strange.

Exactly.

Sorry meant to say WWH..edit

Originally posted by Deadline
The thing is WBH is a 1000 time more powerful than WWH, MM isn't a 1000 times superior to Prof X or Dr Strange.

I'd put him as 1000x some no name SHIELD telepaths who managed to read WWH's mind, albeit with difficulty....

And of course, you're comparing apples and oranges. MArvel's psychics tried attacking him head on, which as everyone knows is stupid when confronting the Hulk. As per forum stipulations, the JLA know that making him madder will make him stronger, as that is what the average person knows. Had Prof X and Emma tried casting illusions like I described MM doing, the comic would have been shorter - so the writers didn't have it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
I'd put him as 1000x some no name SHIELD telepaths who managed to read WWH's mind, albeit with difficulty....

And of course, you're comparing apples and oranges. MArvel's psychics tried attacking him head on, which as everyone knows is stupid when confronting the Hulk. As per forum stipulations, the JLA know that making him madder will make him stronger, as that is what the average person knows. Had Prof X and Emma tried casting illusions like I described MM doing, the comic would have been shorter - so the writers didn't have it.

Dr Strange didn't, next.

Originally posted by Deadline
Dr Strange didn't, next.

Yes, and told the Hulk that he was specifically trying to calm him down in a neutral setting.

Also, before his hands were crushed, Strange was holding back.

Next.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, and told the Hulk that he was specifically trying to calm him down in a neutral setting.

Also, before his hands were crushed, Strange was holding back.

Next.

I don't know I think it was kinda subtle same with prof. You're kinda contradicting yourself trying to calm somebody down isn't making them madder, plus you don't know wether MM is going to do something complicated.

I dunno I think some illusions were used.

Originally posted by Deadline
I don't know I think it was kinda subtle same with prof. You're kinda contradicting yourself trying to calm somebody down isn't making them madder, plus you don't know wether MM is going to do something complicated.

I dunno I think some illusions were used.

Well, my point (which I admit, is debateable - from the very start, I said it was an even split between the sides) was that what MM would be doing (and has done before) is so deep that to the person who's in it, it IS their reality, and they'd have fake memories etc all set up. He's not trying to calm the Hulk down, as fas as the Hulk knows, he's unleashing his full power and has gotten revenge for Betty.

Of course, if its just MM appearing in astral form saying calm down calm down, patronising him like an animal or a child, it'll make things worse.

And no, I don't know 100% that MM would do it. Hence why its not a stomp to the JLA, I think its a 50/50 chance he'd use it.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Well, my point (which I admit, is debateable - from the very start, I said it was an even split between the sides) was that what MM would be doing (and has done before) is so deep that to the person who's in it, it IS their reality, and they'd have fake memories etc all set up. He's not trying to calm the Hulk down, as fas as the Hulk knows, he's unleashing his full power and has gotten revenge for Betty.

Of course, if its just MM appearing in astral form saying calm down calm down, patronising him like an animal or a child, it'll make things worse.

And no, I don't know 100% that MM would do it. Hence why its not a stomp to the JLA, I think its a 50/50 chance he'd use it.

I'm pretty sure people have used stuff like that and failed. This is the most pwerful version of the Hulk and weaker versions have of the Hulk have seen through the illusions of powerful beings.

Originally posted by Deadline
I'm pretty sure people have used stuff like that and failed. This is the most pwerful version of the Hulk and weaker versions have of the Hulk have seen through the illusions of powerful beings.

Am open to being convinced. I guess what I'm after is the Hulk resisting something as deep as what MM is able to pull off - for example waking up and suddenly realising one day that his entire reality as he knew it was wrong, and he fights it off, only to realise he's actually been on Doom's operating table this entire time, or something. Something Matrixy lol. Something like what the Key did to the JLA, or how Wolverine slowly realised that the House of M reality was 'wrong'. That kinda thing.

Then there's an eternal stalemate between an intangible MM and an air elemental and WBh.

And the other strategy of just using WW's lasso.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Am open to being convinced. Then there's an eternal stalemate between an intangible MM and an air elemental and WBh.

I think I've seen Hulk grab energy, astral beings and a weaker version of the Hulk nearly killed intangible vision.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
And the other strategy of just using WW's lasso.

Foot stomp, generate energy etc.

JLA destroys worldbreaker Hulk.

Originally posted by DarkSaint85
Yes, and told the Hulk that he was specifically trying to calm him down in a neutral setting.

Also, before his hands were crushed, Strange was holding back.

Next.

You are talking about two different scenes. I just posted the scan where Strange failed at attacking WWH mind via surprise attack.

Originally posted by Deadline
I think I've seen Hulk grab energy, astral beings and a weaker version of the Hulk nearly killed intangible vision.

Foot stomp, generate energy etc.

I edited my reply, tried to add more detail. Vision's intagibility is different as well from MM's.

As for foot stomping etc, that won't matter when MM is invisible and intangible.

Originally posted by carver9
You are talking about two different scenes. I just posted the scan where Strange failed at attacking WWH mind via surprise attack.

Lol I know I was - I had already dismissed your scans, as they were not comparing like for like. It was a reply to Deadline's assertion that Strange tried casting illusions on WWH (and hence, a different scene to the scan you posted).