Thor vs Worldbreaker Hulk (Slugfest)

Originally posted by Stoic
Well just questioning the on panel feat places it within that air, also the fact that Thor has never been in Warrior Madness on panel makes your question irrelevant, as it has no foundation.

What we can concretely go off of though, it that it stated on panel that Wendigo, and Bi-Beast were 1000x more powerful than they were normally, due to mystical augmentation, and that the Hulk overpowered them even at that level, and tossed them out into space as if they were light weights. This is something that the Savage Hulk could never do to these guys at there base stats. This also makes for solid evidence when discussing Thor's non amped strength levels.

Thor and the Savage Hulk have gone at it time and again, and most of their battles were draws/stalemates. Now let me do the math here. If Thor, Savage Hulk, Wendigo, and Bi-Beast are relatively in the same class in terms of strength, while not being augmented by outside forces, it should be easy to figure out, that Wendigo, and Bi-Beast at 1000x their base would be above this class in terms of strength. it should also be easy to realize that if the Hulk was able to treat them like light weights in this condition, that he would also be above this class, actually it would be easy to say that he was far above this class. Now here's the kicker, on panel it states that what he did to the Bi-Beast, and Wendigo was him holding back.

To recap. Thor=Savage Hulk=Wendigo=Bi-Beast at base strength due to how well the Hulk has done against all of them on panel. This also means that WB Hulk who was 1000x greater than Savage Hulk would be greater than Thor at 20x.

We can't go on panel feats?

Originally posted by carver9
Amped Bi Beast and Wendigo fought WWH.

Hey buddy, I know amped Bi-Beast and Wendigo fought Hulk but he bfred them because he couldn't defeat them on his own, they were stronger but when he was in the Dark Dimension, were they still as big (during the amp they were huge) or were they as big as hulk (so they lost their amp).

Originally posted by leonidas
not really the same thing at all tbh. someone moving at ftl speeds in comics is something that is consistent within the world of comics and it is backed up by evidence time and time again. someone zapping a hulk enemy and narration saying they are 100/1000x more powerful without any support whatsoever to make me believe it? that pushes the boundaries of my dispension of disbelief i'm afraid. even in the comic world there is internal logic and consistency. and things can certainly be silly.

and i brought up the idea of thor being as fast as lightning, so i'm hardly picking on hulk.....

What's logical about a guy moving at FTL speeds, and not being torn apart far before even reaching said speeds? To scrutinize one while giving the other the nod is ludicrous. The Hulk has performed feats upon crazy feats. Was it not enough that he was capable of generating enough forces to obliterate planets without directly touching them? When was the last time that you saw Thor take a step that threatened to sink the entire Eastern Seaboard? To add to this, while holding himself back, and begging for someone to please stop him? You say no feats to back them? What does he have to do sneeze away a universe to prove that he was 1000x stronger than the Savage Hulk, who was beaten down by Rulk several times? Rulk was severely beaten down by WWH/WB Hulk. Just something to think about. You might also want to consider the fictional mythology behind the Hulk's power-set, and his ability to grow stronger.

Originally posted by Silent Master
We can't go on panel feats?

Where are the on panel feat/s, that shows Thor in Warrior Madness? This is why the question is irrelevant. Sticking to what we know, and have seen is likely the best direction for this debate to move towards. Of course this could be an assumption on my part.

We know what Thor's best feats are and we know the size of the amp the OP is giving him, does WBH have any feats in that level?

Originally posted by Stoic
Well just questioning the on panel feat places it within that air, also the fact that Thor has never been in Warrior Madness on panel makes your question irrelevant, as it has no foundation.

What we can concretely go off of though, it that it stated on panel that Wendigo, and Bi-Beast were 1000x more powerful than they were normally, due to mystical augmentation, and that the Hulk overpowered them even at that level, and tossed them out into space as if they were light weights. This is something that the Savage Hulk could never do to these guys at there base stats. This also makes for solid evidence when discussing Thor's non amped strength levels.

Thor and the Savage Hulk have gone at it time and again, and most of their battles were draws/stalemates. Now let me do the math here. If Thor, Savage Hulk, Wendigo, and Bi-Beast are relatively in the same class in terms of strength, while not being augmented by outside forces, it should be easy to figure out, that Wendigo, and Bi-Beast at 1000x their base would be above this class in terms of strength. it should also be easy to realize that if the Hulk was able to treat them like light weights in this condition, that he would also be above this class, actually it would be easy to say that he was far above this class. Now here's the kicker, on panel it states that what he did to the Bi-Beast, and Wendigo was him holding back.

To recap. Thor=Savage Hulk=Wendigo=Bi-Beast at base strength due to how well the Hulk has done against all of them on panel. This also means that WB Hulk who was 1000x greater than Savage Hulk would be greater than Thor at 20x.

The main reason being that Hulk's strength was severely dynamic in nature.

He could struggle with a weakling one day then take it to the strongest people in the universe the next, so using him as a bench mark isn't very good when comparing people.

Originally posted by Batman-Prime
Hey buddy, I know amped Bi-Beast and Wendigo fought Hulk but he bfred them because he couldn't defeat them on his own, they were stronger but when he was in the Dark Dimension, were they still as big (during the amp they were huge) or were they as big as hulk (so they lost their amp).

Where was it stated WWH could beat them? He bfred them because it was the easy route instead of then wrecking the city and killing innocents. Where was it stated they were stronger? Are you making up stuff again?

It was nothing stated on panel that they lost their amp during the Dark Dimension. It's debatable.

Originally posted by Silent Master
We know what Thor's best feats are and we know the size of the amp the OP is giving him, does WBH have any feats in that level?

What's Thor best fts?

Originally posted by Newjak
That's pretty faulty logic,

The main reason being that Hulk's strength was severely dynamic in nature.

He could struggle with a weakling one day then take it to the strongest people in the universe the next, so using him as a bench mark isn't very good when comparing people.

What if Savage Hulk fought these opponents more than once with the same results. You cant take that away from him.

Originally posted by Silent Master
We know what Thor's best feats are and we know the size of the amp the OP is giving him, does WBH have any feats in that level?

Well why don't you answer your own question. If you don't know where to start, let me help you with question one. Does anyone know for certain how much real estate was destroyed in the Dark Dimension? For all we know it may have been far more than was shown on panel, because all I saw for certain was total destruction. Your question is filled with too many unknowns, and to even begin to answer it would likely only be hearsay, because as I stated before it simply has no foundation to draw on.

However what happened during the HOTM arc has plenty on concrete feats all over the place. Now it's simply up to people whether or not they want to belittle it or see it for what it was. I have many Thor comics, and I have never once witnessed a comic that has shown Thor take a foot step and nearly sink the entire Eastern Seaboard, while holding back. Even the helicopters in the air nearly crashed from the sonic after shocks of the foot fall.

Originally posted by carver9
I don't know about that...Savage Hulk looks stronger. 😕

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/9.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/10.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/11.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/12.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/13.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/14.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/15.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/16.jpg
http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd124/HulkFights/Vs%20Thor/Fight%203/17.jpg

It was pretty much clear cut that Savage was physically stronger than Thor in this fight...more dominant. WWH is pretty much far above Savage Hulk and WBH is just another story. IMO, 10 Times increase for Thor isn't enough.

Thor and Savage Hulk are near equal in strength with an edge going to Savage...there is no getting around this.

WWH is FAR stronger than Savage and WBH is FAR stronger than both. Putting Thor and WBH in the same sentence is retarded. The butthurt on Hulk getting a massive upgrade is bringing a lot of people on the forum in tears. Upset that their character is below Hulk when all along this was expressed throughout Hulks history regarding his power level...keep crying...I just bought a fresh box of napkins for the haters.

Originally posted by carver9
Where was it stated WWH could beat them? He bfred them because it was the easy route instead of then wrecking the city and killing innocents. Where was it stated they were stronger? Are you making up stuff again?

It was nothing stated on panel that they lost their amp during the Dark Dimension. It's debatable.

It was obvious, actually. And they were small again in the Dark Dimension? Good^^.

Originally posted by Newjak
That's pretty faulty logic,

The main reason being that Hulk's strength was severely dynamic in nature.

He could struggle with a weakling one day then take it to the strongest people in the universe the next, so using him as a bench mark isn't very good when comparing people.

Try to remain within the context of the discussion. I was using the Savage Hulk's stats when compared to Wendigo's not Captain America or Spiderman.

It was pretty clear when they said that Wendigo, and Bi-Beast were 1000x their base due to the well waters. It was also pretty clear when the Hulk overpowered them, and tossed them into space like feather weights, while being more powerful than they had ever been. i see no faulty logic there.

Originally posted by carver9
What if Savage Hulk fought these opponents more than once with the same results. You cant take that away from him.

The short version is that you can't definitely prove someone is as strong as someone based simply on their fights with the Hulk because Hulk's range was so wide. He could go from having a good fight with the thing to taking on higher strength characters like Namor or Wonder Man easily.

Originally posted by Stoic
Try to remain within the context of the discussion. I was using the Savage Hulk's stats when compared to Wendigo's not Captain America or Spiderman.

It was pretty clear when they said that Wendigo, and Bi-Beast were 1000x their base due to the well waters. It was also pretty clear when the Hulk overpowered them, and tossed them into space like feather weights, while being more powerful than they had ever been. i see no faulty logic there.

Originally posted by Stoic

To recap. Thor=Savage Hulk=Wendigo=Bi-Beast at base strength due to how well the Hulk has done against all of them on panel. This also means that WB Hulk who was 1000x greater than Savage Hulk would be greater than Thor at 20x.

But the fact is you can not prove that.

That is the Savage Hulk that Thor fought could have been millions of times stronger then the one Wendigo fought because Hulk's strength level is once again... dynamic.

You can't use him to make a direct comparison because is not at any sort of constant state. Or you can try to use him but it's a bad foundation to do so.

seems like people are trying to find any way they can to make WBH/WWH not seem as strong as he was portrayed.

Originally posted by Newjak
That doesn't change the point carver. Hulk's strength was dynamic just because it was the same results doesn't mean anything. The Hulk was generally as strong as someone until they got him mad enough to over power.

The short version is that you can't definitely prove someone is as strong as someone based simply on their fights with the Hulk because Hulk's range was so wide. He could go from having a good fight with the thing to taking on higher strength characters like Namor or Wonder Man easily.

Yes you can when an entire comic goes by and the Savage Hulk has not defeated his opponent. This means that Wendigo and Bi-Beast were certainly on the level, and have also always been classified as class 100 characters. This is not the same as Spiderman or someone that is even weaker than him. Should we assume that the Hulk was angrier when he fought Thor for an entire issue than he was when he fought Wendigo, or Bi-Beast for the same amount of time, and ended up stalemating each of them?

Originally posted by Newjak
That doesn't change the point carver. Hulk's strength was dynamic just because it was the same results doesn't mean anything. The Hulk was generally as strong as someone until they got him mad enough to over power.

The short version is that you can't definitely prove someone is as strong as someone based simply on their fights with the Hulk because Hulk's range was so wide. He could go from having a good fight with the thing to taking on higher strength characters like Namor or Wonder Man easily.

The thing that you are failing to understand is neither Bi Beast or Wendigo fought a calm Savage Hulk...he was pissed. A pissed Savage is just as dangerous as the Savage Hulks Thor has fought. You trying to discredit Bi Beast stalemating an angry Savage Hulk at one point and then outright beating him the second fight doesn't change this just like it doeant change Wendigo performing great against one of the strongest bricks in Marvel.

Rulk defeated Savage Hulk 3 Times and at one point, he killed him...clear that Rulk during that time was over Savage Hulk. I don't know what more proof you need. I just sense a lil denial.

Originally posted by bbrem123
seems like people are trying to find any way they can to make WBH/WWH not seem as strong as he was portrayed.

Exactly and its sad.

Originally posted by Stoic
What's logical about a guy moving at FTL speeds, and not being torn apart far before even reaching said speeds? To scrutinize one while giving the other the nod is ludicrous. The Hulk has performed feats upon crazy feats. Was it not enough that he was capable of generating enough forces to obliterate planets without directly touching them? When was the last time that you saw Thor take a step that threatened to sink the entire Eastern Seaboard? To add to this, while holding himself back, and begging for someone to please stop him? You say no feats to back them? What does he have to do sneeze away a universe to prove that he was 1000x stronger than the Savage Hulk, who was beaten down by Rulk several times? Rulk was severely beaten down by WWH/WB Hulk. Just something to think about. You might also want to consider the fictional mythology behind the Hulk's power-set, and his ability to grow stronger.

you didn't understand at all what i said. at all.

hulk's strength, flash's speed et al., all exist within a context where such things are logically consistent and are exemplified over and over again. hulk could smash a planet to rubble and it would be fine. why? because that is logically consistent with his powerset and has been demonstrated over and over. if suddenly someone said damn, the hulk is as fast as the flash! that would breach that internal consistency and would be relegated to hyperbole.

as naj pointed out, there was a great size increase so sure there was some amp that went along. however, to try and use the off-hand remark that they were 1000x more powerful than they previously were is silly in my mind. trying to use that number to do calculations with which to prove hulk's superior strength is also silly imo, and unnecessary.