CISless Surfer vs HP Doomsday

Originally posted by leonidas
wut? gold's word is all right i guess, (though pretty much utterly irrelevant as that was a different version of dd than the one being discussed here) but that's hardly what has i'm talking about. so...yeah. and where exactly did i say that he has superman speed again.....? there is more than enough inferrential and direct evidence to indicate to me that dd has legit superspeed. you want to think dd and hulk are the same in terms of speed, knock yourself out.

Let's get to first base before I even start having to deal with other people who believe Doomsday is faster than Surfer or is on par with Superman's superspeed.

Originally posted by carver9
Of what?

Him saying it to the characters you've mentioned.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What has H/P Doomsday, much less DOS Doomsday, done that puts him past surprisingly agile/fast bricks like Hulk? What exactly? Because we both know his Kryptonian origins have sh1t to do with that. All Kryptonians have exhibited heat vision, x-ray vision, flight. All unconsciously without even trying to manifest those powers. And Doomsday hasn't exhibited those, much less Kryptonian superspeed. So tell me again, other than widely inaccurate and unreliable inferences, what speed/agility feats vault H/P Doomsday past Hulk?

Let's get to first base before I even start having to deal with other people who believe Doomsday is faster than Surfer or is on par with Superman's superspeed.

'much less kryptonian superspeed'?

That's a basic physical attribute. Heat Vision, Flight, X-Ray vision, those are specialized powers that require conscious activation.

We know because of his Kryptonian DNA he also acts as a solar battery, and this is what gives him his physical strength...so why exactly would it not give him super speed? Since his speed would be coming from his direct muscular strength, as opposed to the non-standard explanation such as with the Speed Force guys.. 😐

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Hulk

See the thread title? Read it slowly and then read it again.

Take your Hulk butthurt elsewhere.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
What has H/P Doomsday, much less DOS Doomsday, done that puts him past surprisingly agile/fast bricks like Hulk? What exactly? Because we both know his Kryptonian origins have sh1t to do with that.

you can categorically rule out his heritage if you choose, fact remains that there aren't any kryptonians that do not have some degree of superspeed. definite proof? of course not, but when added with the sheer number of times his speed has been referenced (gold, kal himself, multiple times--he even reiterated in h/p (AFTER he's already faced dd and knows full well his abilities) that the killer was fast--fast as lightning, max, guy, all in different parts of the story, and even ACROSS arcs) the indication and intent of the authors is crystal clear to me. dd has superspeed. (incidentally carver, dd's wiki bio has superspeed clear as day.....) there is a scan somewhere showing him fighting supes with speed lines surrounding them both as they hit each other but i can't recall where i saw it. regardless, even without that bit of support there is STILL ample proof imo to support his speed. then there's the alternative--we assume everyone's comments and the repeated nature of them were what? pis? hyperbole? i can't make you change your mind if that's how you want to view them, but that belief fairly flies in the face of the authors' intentions imo. and for no real reason other than a dearth of feats, which seems kind of silly given the ltd appearances he's had.

i could always turn things around too. hulk's speed HAS been referenced, sure, but by whom? he was a statue to a po'd spiderman. so who are the superspeedsters who have made reference to hulk? have they been momentarily surprised by it, or were they utterly overwhelmed as both kal and guy and booster were? love to see him overwhelming someone who HAS legit superspeed with speed of his own.

Originally posted by Odekahn
Him saying it to the characters you've mentioned.

I'm only providing one scan...not searching for something you should know.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Lobo/LobovsSupermanAOS464-3.jpg

Here.

Originally posted by Placidity
See the thread title? Read it slowly and then read it again.

Take your Hulk butthurt elsewhere.

lmao

Let me post the Darkseid showing anyways. Superman comment on his speed as well. Would you like to see Grundy?

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Supermanvol2003p08.jpg

Originally posted by leonidas
you can categorically rule out his heritage if you choose, fact remains that there aren't any kryptonians that do not have some degree of superspeed. definite proof? of course not, but when added with the sheer number of times his speed has been referenced (gold, kal himself, multiple times--he even reiterated in h/p (AFTER he's already faced dd and knows full well his abilities) that the killer was fast--fast as lightning, max, guy, all in different parts of the story, and even ACROSS arcs) the indication and intent of the authors is crystal clear to me. dd has superspeed. (incidentally carver, dd's wiki bio has superspeed clear as day.....) there is a scan somewhere showing him fighting supes with speed lines surrounding them both as they hit each other but i can't recall where i saw it. regardless, even without that bit of support there is STILL ample proof imo to support his speed. then there's the alternative--we assume everyone's comments and the repeated nature of them were what? pis? hyperbole? i can't make you change your mind if that's how you want to view them, but that belief fairly flies in the face of the authors' intentions imo. and for no real reason other than a dearth of feats, which seems kind of silly given the ltd appearances he's had.

i could always turn things around too. hulk's speed HAS been referenced, sure, but by whom? he was a statue to a po'd spiderman. so who are the superspeedsters who have made reference to hulk? have they been momentarily surprised by it, or were they utterly overwhelmed as both kal and guy and booster were? love to see him overwhelming someone who HAS legit superspeed with speed of his own.

You and I both know full well that all of Doomsday's incarnations have exhibited nothing beyond what Hulk has. And your garbage false absolutes don't change that. My reading everybody's statements of DD for what they are, i.e., statements that are categorically referenced towards almost all agile bricks, does not necessitate me dismissing them as pure PIS. What I won't do is take Superman being surprised by an elbow from Doomsday as any different than Professor Hulk dodging Speedfreak.

The authors' intentions are, and have always been, fairly obvious. Doomsday isn't a slow hulking brute and his speed and agility belie his size and power. Now where exactly do you think that concept came from?

Originally posted by carver9
Let me post the Darkseid showing anyways. Superman comment on his speed as well. Would you like to see Grundy?

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh187/DarkseidRes/Supermanvol2003p08.jpg

Yes.

Originally posted by carver9
I'm only providing one scan...not searching for something you should know.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c379/Doggydogg/Lobo/LobovsSupermanAOS464-3.jpg

Here.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Why wouldn't I categorically rule out this flimsy reverse-projection for what it is? Doomsday exhibit some of the most basic Kryptonian powers there are? No. Flatly, no, he hasn't. Sorry if don't take for granted that he inherited others through "inference."

You and I both know full well that all of Doomsday's incarnations have exhibited nothing beyond what Hulk has. And your garbage false absolutes don't change that. My reading everybody's statements of DD for what they are, i.e., statements that are categorically referenced towards almost all agile bricks, does not necessitate me dismissing them as pure PIS. What I won't do is take Superman being surprised by an elbow from Doomsday as any different than Professor Hulk dodging Speedfreak.

The authors' intentions are, and have always been, fairly obvious. Doomsday isn't a slow hulking brute and his speed and agility belie his size and power. Now where exactly do you think that concept came from?

GUY GARDNER.

Your argument is invalid.

😎

Originally posted by Odekahn
Yes.

Lol...just take my word for it...I'm not searching through 100's of scans to prove my case. I posted two scans proving my point. Superman has said this about almost every brick that has surprised him with an attack.

Originally posted by carver9
Lol...just take my word for it...I'm not searching through 100's of scans to prove my case. I posted two scans proving my point. Superman has said this about almost every brick that has surprised him with an attack.

Hey, you offered.

And I don't consider Darkseid a brick. Plus, I'm pretty sure he has super speed as well.

POWERS AND WEAPONS

Darkseid's greatest power is his intellect. He is a ruthless strategist and organizer and holds the entire population of Apokolips, including his inner circle, in absolute dread of him. Darkseid's goal is not chaos but absolute order and the extinction of free will. A universe united under the will of Darkseid.
Even though he prefers to work through agents and not to engage in physical conflict with his enemies, Darkseid nevertheless possesses great superhuman strength, speed, and stamina. He was held his own against the likes of his own son Orion and Superman of Earth.

Darkseid also wields the power of the Omega Beams, force blasts emitted from his eyes. These beams can either erase a being from existance or simply transport them to a location of Darkseid's choosing.

http://www.dcuwiki.net/w/Darkseid

Originally posted by CosmicComet
'much less kryptonian superspeed'?

That's a basic physical attribute. Heat Vision, Flight, X-Ray vision, those are specialized powers that require conscious activation.

We know because of his Kryptonian DNA he also acts as a solar battery, and this is what gives him his physical strength...so why exactly would it not give him super speed? Since his speed would be coming from his direct muscular strength, as opposed to the non-standard explanation such as with the Speed Force guys.. 😐

And if you're trying to tell me that Doomsday does have heat vision, x-ray vision and flight strictly because of his Kryptonian heritage and just never chose to consciously activate them, forgive me for saying in advance, that's retarded.

Originally posted by Placidity
See the thread title? Read it slowly and then read it again.

Take your Hulk butthurt elsewhere.

Originally posted by Juntai
He was too fast for Guy Gardner to react.

GUY GARDNER.

Your argument is invalid.

😎

Originally posted by Odekahn
Hey, you offered.

And I don't consider Darkseid a brick. Plus, I'm pretty sure he has super speed as well.

POWERS AND WEAPONS

Darkseid's greatest power is his intellect. He is a ruthless strategist and organizer and holds the entire population of Apokolips, including his inner circle, in absolute dread of him. Darkseid's goal is not chaos but absolute order and the extinction of free will. A universe united under the will of Darkseid.
Even though he prefers to work through agents and not to engage in physical conflict with his enemies, Darkseid nevertheless possesses great superhuman strength, [B]speed, and stamina. He was held his own against the likes of his own son Orion and Superman of Earth.

Darkseid also wields the power of the Omega Beams, force blasts emitted from his eyes. These beams can either erase a being from existance or simply transport them to a location of Darkseid's choosing.

http://www.dcuwiki.net/w/Darkseid [/B]

Where are you getting this bio from. Hulk bio states similar. This is from his bio.

The Hulk's powerful legs allow him to leap into lower Earth orbit or across continents, [53] and he has

displayed sufficient superhuman speed to match Thor, [54] and Sentry. [55]

Originally posted by leonidas
you can categorically rule out his heritage if you choose, fact remains that there aren't any kryptonians that do not have some degree of superspeed. definite proof? of course not, but when added with the sheer number of times his speed has been referenced (gold, kal himself, multiple times--he even reiterated in h/p (AFTER he's already faced dd and knows full well his abilities) that the killer was fast--fast as lightning, max, guy, all in different parts of the story, and even ACROSS arcs) the indication and intent of the authors is crystal clear to me. dd has superspeed. (incidentally carver, dd's wiki bio has superspeed clear as day.....) there is a scan somewhere showing him fighting supes with speed lines surrounding them both as they hit each other but i can't recall where i saw it. regardless, even without that bit of support there is STILL ample proof imo to support his speed. then there's the alternative--we assume everyone's comments and the repeated nature of them were what? pis? hyperbole? i can't make you change your mind if that's how you want to view them, but that belief fairly flies in the face of the authors' intentions imo. and for no real reason other than a dearth of feats, which seems kind of silly given the ltd appearances he's had.

i could always turn things around too. hulk's speed HAS been referenced, sure, but by whom? he was a statue to a po'd spiderman. so who are the superspeedsters who have made reference to hulk? have they been momentarily surprised by it, or were they utterly overwhelmed as both kal and guy and booster were? love to see him overwhelming someone who HAS legit superspeed with speed of his own.

Originally posted by carver9
Honestly, I would put him around Darkseid, Grundy level (high end Grundy) in regards to speed. Everything that Doomsday has done, Grundy has done as well...along with the statements that was mentioned for Doomsday. He isn't your typical brick but he sure as hell isnt Superman, Wonder Woman fast.

In short bursts (like within battle distance) DD has flash like speed. Tell me how fast do you have to be in order to be several meters away from the JL and in a blink hit them all SIMULTANEOUSLY (including Superman).
Superman at the time could see bullets in slow motion complained that he couldn't see him move and that his speed is too fast.

Then we have HP DD move so fast that he covered hundreds of meters, after being buried in rubble, before Darkseid could turn around. Darkseid has legitimate super speed and reflexes.

No brick has ever shown that type of speed. Not even close. You just can't hit more than 5 people with only 2 hands (including Superman watching you) if you don't have flash like speed.

Originally posted by h1a8
In short bursts (like within battle distance) DD has flash like speed. Tell me how fast do you have to be in order to be several meters away from the JL and in a blink hit them all SIMULTANEOUSLY (including Superman).
Superman at the time could see bullets in slow motion complained that he couldn't see him move and that his speed is too fast.

Then we have HP DD move so fast that he covered hundreds of meters, after being buried in rubble, before Darkseid could turn around. Darkseid has legitimate super speed and reflexes.

No brick has ever shown that type of speed. Not even close. You just can't hit more than 5 people with only 2 hands (including Superman watching you) if you don't have flash like speed.

😕